NPC 2023
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I keep asking because I doubt anyone seriously thinks this format is workable. However if anyone suggests reforms it gets shot down
My preferences would be for something similar to the 1990's 8-10 teams with All Blacks and no Super Rugby
It would be better than the NPC continuing to fade away and 5 SR teams are all we have forever
Yeah I don't think continuing is viable but I deplore NZR running it into the ground, removing investment, having other brands within the same stable make comments that suggest nothing else is on etc
The strengths of the NPC have been its tribal nature which Super Rugby has never really achieved and that is the product they want to invest in. Super Rugby is a better product for sure but perhaps it would be better with some extra NZ players (who then don't have to play for Aus to get selected).
I would argue you could expand the NZ teams without losing much. Its not like the Australian teams haven't devalued it anyway already
Even with my suggestion some teams will still miss out but I suspect someones going to miss out regardless
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@Stargazer said in NPC 2023:
I don't think it being a 14-team competition is the root of the problem
Neither, I just picked this point because it's difficult to defend (which is why others have talked about history instead)
You've even admitted above that the 14 teams need to be split up again. Southland was happier without the single division.. more changes.. but changes are bad.. also weren't you happy when it went to a single division?
It's a mess
I think NZR probably would like to change the structure of the whole season but there is so much resistance. There reality is that the decision to make SR the primary competition a generation ago meant the NPC would decline as it has
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The quality of promotion of matches locally by unions makes this inevitable. I can't believe how little effort there is, and how poor the little provided is. They seem to be looking for a 'newer younger' audience, but they don't give a toss about the longtime fans.
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@bayimports said in NPC 2023:
I keep asking because I doubt anyone seriously thinks this format is workable. However if anyone suggests reforms it gets shot down
My preferences would be for something similar to the 1990's 8-10 teams with All Blacks and no Super Rugby
It would be better than the NPC continuing to fade away and 5 SR teams are all we have forever
Yeah I don't think continuing is viable but I deplore NZR running it into the ground, removing investment, having other brands within the same stable make comments that suggest nothing else is on etc
The strengths of the NPC have been its tribal nature which Super Rugby has never really achieved and that is the product they want to invest in. Super Rugby is a better product for sure but perhaps it would be better with some extra NZ players (who then don't have to play for Aus to get selected).
I would argue you could expand the NZ teams without losing much. Its not like the Australian teams haven't devalued it anyway already
Even with my suggestion some teams will still miss out but I suspect someones going to miss out regardless
I don't think this is true, except for places like here (or likely any rugby forum) where it is mainly boomers and older Gen X.
I just sneak in as Gen X and I spend far more more money on Super than I do on NPC (I jersey, one hoodie, two singlets, 2 shorts for Super versus 1 pair of shorts for Waikato).
I couldn't give a toss about Waikato winning, neat if it happens, but I'd trade us getting the spoon for the Chiefs to win.
I'd probably trade us getting the spoon every year if it guaranteed a Chiefs win every three years.
My feeling is that the younger you are, the more you align with Super. It's time to recognise that and roll with it.
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@bayimports said in NPC 2023:
The strengths of the NPC have been its tribal nature which Super Rugby has never really achieved and that is the product they want to invest in. Super Rugby is a better product for sure but perhaps it would be better with some extra NZ players (who then don't have to play for Aus to get selected).
A single 8-10 competition? With more tribalism closer to the NPC 30 years ago? A better 'product' than SR. Sounds great
There's too much resistance to change though . So we are stuck with a slow NPC death and a shitty SR comp
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I think NZR probably would like to change the structure of the whole season but there is so much resistance. There reality is that the decision to make SR the primary competition a generation ago mean the NPC would decline as it has
and i would say its moving on again to the AB's and a primary focus....if a international world league got off the ground then i think super rugby could be ignored just as fast
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The quality of promotion of matches locally by unions makes this inevitable. I can't believe how little effort there is, and how poor the little provided is. They seem to be looking for a 'newer younger' audience, but they don't give a toss about the longtime fans.
im not even sure thats true any more given how little they do on any social media...they kind of just expect people to turn up
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@Stargazer said in NPC 2023:
It may be like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Be negative on the TSF about the NPC long and often enough, and more people will become negative about the NPC. Or people stop posting about it. They'll just watch the games. The negativity here is sometimes very off-putting.There's plenty of negativity around SR. Numbers are up.
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@bayimports said in NPC 2023:
The strengths of the NPC have been its tribal nature which Super Rugby has never really achieved and that is the product they want to invest in. Super Rugby is a better product for sure but perhaps it would be better with some extra NZ players (who then don't have to play for Aus to get selected).
A single 8-10 competition? With more tribalism closer to the NPC 30 years ago? A better 'product' than SR. Sounds great
There's too much resistance to change though . So we are stuck with a slow NPC death and a shitty SR comp
do we think eventually we'll see the unions as old school representative teams, selected from the local clubs comps just to do some minor tours and the ranfurly shield?
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I don't think this is true, except for places like here (or likely any rugby forum) where it is mainly boomers and older Gen X.
I don't think that supports Super Rugby replicating tribalism? That supports an alternative view of Waikato at NPC level and what you care for and what potentially younger generations care for (which is also a valid argument for a product, of which I also agree with, but it is not tribalism to the extent that NPC had at its peak).
I don't disagree that NPC needs to change (if be kept at all)
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@KiwiMurph for me i think promotion/relegation is important....that tiny glimmer of hope for the lower division team or desperation a team at the bottom of the table gains can be powerful for driving engagement
where as currently fans of teams at the bottom after a few weeks can lose a bit of interest as the season might already be gone...fighting to stay up can cause some upsets
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Must be affordability issues for the likes of Otago, Wellington, Auckland and Waikato to continue renting their expensive stadiums with average crowds.
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You've even admitted above that the 14 teams need to be split up again.
Not necessarily the way you may think.
I'm more thinking in an alternative format to that of the Heartland Ch'ship, where eventually teams are split up in a Cup (Meads Cup) and a Plate (Lochore Cup) style format.also weren't you happy when it went to a single division?
No, I wasn't too sure it would work. I had just seen them do that in the FPC for one season (due to covid) and how some Ch'ship teams were totally beaten up by Prem'ship teams. I wondered whether something similar (although not just as severe) would happen in the NPC.
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@Kiwiwomble said in NPC 2023:
where as currently fans of teams at the bottom after a few weeks can lose a bit of interest as the season might already be gone...fighting to stay up can cause some upsets
That's why I think maybe a Heartland Ch'ship style format - with the bottom 6 teams having silverware to play for - might be a good idea.
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@Stargazer said in NPC 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in NPC 2023:
where as currently fans of teams at the bottom after a few weeks can lose a bit of interest as the season might already be gone...fighting to stay up can cause some upsets
That's why I think maybe a Heartland Ch'ship style format - with the bottom 6 teams having silverware to play for - might be a good idea.
i can see it and it might well work
my personal preference is just more simple split into different divisions and the only cross over might be a promotion/relegation game, not playing some teams one year might get people down to watch the next time they do play them, cross over games and splitting mid season just seems a bit complicated for some (like me)
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I favour implementation of salary caps that include super payments. If we can’t fit a full round of games then a split competition with even distribution of seeds - as before, if we have to.
The real question for Mark Robinson is “what does he mean by fit for purpose?”
- make money as a stand alone competition
- a stepping stone for players to make Super rugby
- a national competition providing a wide base for the ongoing development of players maintaining strong community connections and the place of rugby in NZs culture.
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My feeling is that the younger you are, the more you align with Super. It's time to recognise that and roll with it.
Yes, there is an entire generation who probably think SR is the only rugby below the ABs. But I also believe there are more casual fans at SR games, many who spend just as much time walking up and down the aisles to annoy the rest of us.
