NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship)
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@Stockcar86 Fords and Backwards
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@Tordah Yeah. Unless Laidlaw is Harry Potter and can wave a magic wand, his tight five aren't going to be much better than those who got beaten by the Aussie kids a month ago. And the expectation seems to be France will be better.
Without having paid much too attention, I'd guess France by plenty.
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@Chris-B said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Tordah Yeah. Unless Laidlaw is Harry Potter and can wave a magic wand, his tight five aren't going to be much better than those who got beaten by the Aussie kids a month ago. And the expectation seems to be France will be better.
Without having paid much too attention, I'd guess France by plenty.
Some different players. Unsure how much diff this will make though
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@Chris-B said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Tordah Yeah. Unless Laidlaw is Harry Potter and can wave a magic wand, his tight five aren't going to be much better than those who got beaten by the Aussie kids a month ago. And the expectation seems to be France will be better.
Without having paid much too attention, I'd guess France by plenty.
What's our problem? Are our players relatively younger and those of the opposition relatively older? Obviously the future is uncharted, but some of these guys will be tomorrow's test players and I'd prefer not to see us getting pumped as a arbinger of our AB future
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@canefan said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
What's our problem? Are our players relatively younger and those of the opposition relatively older?
Not according to this. NZ is older
Championnat du Monde U20 - Match report France U20 vs New Zealand U20, le 29/06/2023
Match report France U20 - New Zealand U20 : lineups, points, stats...
France U20s VS New Zealand U20s
904 kg (113.00 kg) Pack weight
(average) 885 kg (110.63 kg)
19 ans Forwards average age 20 ans
19 ans Backwards average age 20 ans
200 cm Tallest player 198 cm
France : 93% (14/15)
Samoa : 7% (1/15) Differents nationalities for starters New Zealand : 100% (15/15)
France : 96% (22/23)
Samoa : 4% (1/23) Differents nationalities for all the team New Zealand : 100% (23/2 -
@canefan said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Chris-B said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Tordah Yeah. Unless Laidlaw is Harry Potter and can wave a magic wand, his tight five aren't going to be much better than those who got beaten by the Aussie kids a month ago. And the expectation seems to be France will be better.
Without having paid much too attention, I'd guess France by plenty.
What's our problem? Are our players relatively younger and those of the opposition relatively older? Obviously the future is uncharted, but some of these guys will be tomorrow's test players and I'd prefer not to see us getting pumped as a arbinger of our AB future
I have no idea.
Some people suggested that NZ de-prioritizes scrummaging at age group levels - but, I don't see how that would work in practice. There would be a massive advantage to props who bucked that directive.
Somehow, we seem to have plenty of decent props a few years later though.
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@Chris-B said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Some people suggested that NZ de-prioritizes scrummaging at age group levels
There is a restriction at 1st XV/U19 level for pushing in the scrums for safety reasons. A pack can push no more than 1.5 m so you won't see the same domination as you can at senior level. I don't know if a similar rule is in place in other countries. As I've mentioned previously there are quite a few converted schoolboy loose forwards who transition to the front row before the U20s.
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@Bovidae said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Chris-B said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Some people suggested that NZ de-prioritizes scrummaging at age group levels
There is a restriction at 1st XV/U19 level for pushing in the scrums for safety reasons. A pack can push no more than 1.5 m so you won't see the same domination as you can at senior level. I don't know if a similar rule is in place in other countries. As I've mentioned previously there are quite a few converted schoolboy loose forwards who transition to the front row before the U20s.
That would be a reasonable explanation.
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@Chris-B said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@canefan said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Chris-B said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Tordah Yeah. Unless Laidlaw is Harry Potter and can wave a magic wand, his tight five aren't going to be much better than those who got beaten by the Aussie kids a month ago. And the expectation seems to be France will be better.
Without having paid much too attention, I'd guess France by plenty.
What's our problem? Are our players relatively younger and those of the opposition relatively older? Obviously the future is uncharted, but some of these guys will be tomorrow's test players and I'd prefer not to see us getting pumped as a arbinger of our AB future
I have no idea.
Some people suggested that NZ de-prioritizes scrummaging at age group levels - but, I don't see how that would work in practice. There would be a massive advantage to props who bucked that directive.
Somehow, we seem to have plenty of decent props a few years later though.
I know someone who's son moved to the UK as an 18 year old, he's in an English Prem club youth team. His experience was that they trained much harder there. Of course that doesn't necessarily translate into world domination at senior level
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@canefan That's quite possible, as well.
Our backs always seem to be highly competitive, though - but, this year's crop include Hotham, Springer and Godfrey who I presume are all fulltime pros now - and I recall the same in some other years
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@Stargazer said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Winger Those stats show that the French pack is considerably heavier. Bigger boys v smaller boys.
20kg. Accounted for by one lock
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@Chris-B said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@canefan That's quite possible, as well.
Our backs always seem to be highly competitive, though - but, this year's crop include Hotham, Springer and Godfrey who I presume are all fulltime pros now - and I recall the same in some other years
It would be interesting to look at world U20 rankings over the last 20 years and see how that translates into performance at senior level once each cohort makes the jump
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The traditional excuse has been other nations prioritise set piece and size and strength, whereas NZ prioritises ball skills. Ball skills are harder to improve when you're a huge lump, whereas size and strength are one of the easiest things to work on. Whether that is true anymore, I have no idea.
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@Machpants said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
The traditional excuse has been other nations prioritise set piece and size and strength, whereas NZ prioritises ball skills. Ball skills are harder to improve when you're a huge lump, whereas size and strength are one of the easiest things to work on. Whether that is true anymore, I have no idea.
It’s also technique and judging what a players ceiling is.
Is it the right decision? We would need to check previous u20 sides and see how successful we’ve been at converting them into quality adult players. I think we’ve done ok at that?
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Yeah I don’t fancy these conditions for us at all, looks like a grind coming up.
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