Super Rugby 2024
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@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble @george33 has good word that he’s off to another franchise (speculation is the Chiefs), but then @BerhamporeNinja is certain that he’s staying at the Canes so watch this space.
I thought there was also speculation for the Crusaders as well? It's hard to keep up with the Fern rumour mill these days.
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble @george33 has good word that he’s off to another franchise (speculation is the Chiefs), but then @BerhamporeNinja is certain that he’s staying at the Canes so watch this space.
I thought there was also speculation for the Crusaders as well? It's hard to keep up with the Fern rumour mill these days.
There was from I think a crusaders poster. But not based on anything other than the Crusaders could attract a player like Roigard.. and they need a proven top HB
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@frugby said in Super Rugby 2024:
think you underestimate just how good a coach Razor is. Look at Canterbury. Did 3 in 4, then they've only won one since. The guys is just amazing at squeezing the very best out of average players. Rob Penney might not be a bad coach, but he also isn't as good either. I'd go as far to say, the Crusaders wouldn't have won Super Rugby this year with any other guy in charge.
I am well aware of what Razor has done on and off the field for the club and it has been absolutely amazing.
But I am also very aware of what Tamiti Ellison and Dan Perrin have and are doing and people like Angus Gardiner and Andrew Webb who have been a Hugh part of the Crusaders success over the last 7 years.
I have confidence in the people who are left behind at the Crusaders to do their very best to keep what Razor built with the help of those people.
I don't think we will win another 7 in the next seven years but we will win some and be around about the other years. -
Gibbs we know,Always a possibility a new Coach would like more of his choices in there,I haven't heard anymore are leaving.
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble @george33 has good word that he’s off to another franchise (speculation is the Chiefs), but then @BerhamporeNinja is certain that he’s staying at the Canes so watch this space.
I thought there was also speculation for the Crusaders as well? It's hard to keep up with the Fern rumour mill these days.
The Pak 'n Save is running out of crystal balls and tea leaves as we speak.
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@Chris I feel like there is still a bit of a boys club instilled at the Canes. Guys like Cory Jane shouldn't have been given a role the year after finishing up as a player, but he was. This had a snowball effect because it meant that guys like JSavea was never going to fall out of favour because he had a good mate in the coaching box and no matter how inconsistent his performances were, he was never going to be dropped.
The Canes really need a complete clean out of their back room to complement the incoming Laidlaw.
Recent years have shown that the best players haven't always been selected for the Canes. Instead, Holland has selected his favourites even when they continued to underperform in the big games.
Hopefully Laidlaw brings a shift in mindset because the Canes need the best players on the park to compete.
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@Duluth said in Super Rugby 2024:
The reporting on the coaching changes has been unreliable. However there was a report a couple of weeks ago the that Cotter removed himself from consideration for the Crusaders job
It seems to make sense. First, it's hard to argue for Penney over Cotter. Plus Cotter had a more lucrative offer from the Blues, and even more lucrative offers from French clubs
It a fair point isn't it, South Island franchises Highlanders and Crusaders simply can't compete with those cashed up Blues and their third-party deals, there's a reason Leon only coached Ta$man - then abruptly left his Crusaders assistant post after just 1 season for the Blue$ top job citing 'family reasons' lol... Super Rugby isn't exactly a level playing field these days is it?
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
It a fair point isn't it, South Island franchises Highlanders and Crusaders simply can't compete with those cashed up Blues and their third-party deals, there's a reason Leon only coached Ta$man - then abruptly left his Crusaders assistant post after just 1 season for the Blue$ top job citing 'family reasons' lol... Super Rugby isn't exactly a level playing field these days is it?
Crusaders salary bill would be the largest (b/c they have the most ABs) and it's paid for by NZR. Compare their total salary to the Highlanders, that would be the largest discrepancy (most ABs to fewest)
A top up to a coach, or a player, is fiddling at the edges of the real problems
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@kiwi_expat dont bundle up the "evil" crusaders with the poor humble Highlanders!
in all seriousness...you do know they just won...of course they compete with the other franchises, they just got their academy and development (helped with cashed up Ta$man luring people down for NPC too) earlier than others...that breeds success...and success attracts talent...its now self fulfilling to a degree
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@kiwi_expat dont bundle up the "evil" crusaders with the poor humble Highlanders!
in all seriousness...you do know they just won...of course they compete with the other franchises, they just got their academy and development (helped with cashed up Ta$man luring people down for NPC too) earlier than others...that breeds success...and success attracts talent...its now self fulfilling to a degree
Is Ta$man still a thing for the Saders? There are quite a number of Ta$man players with other franchises too. It should go without saying that I am too lazy to check the numbers myself.
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@Crazy-Horse dont know, possibly less so but it use to be and that helped build the current run of success
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@Crazy-Horse Blackadder, Havili, Jordan, Fainga'anuku, Reece, Springer, Hotham, Sykes-Martin, Q. MacDonald, Strange, Havili-Talitui, Chapman are all playing for Ta$man (if they're not with the ABs).
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@kiwi_expat dont bundle up the "evil" crusaders with the poor humble Highlanders!
in all seriousness...you do know they just won...of course they compete with the other franchises, they just got their academy and development (helped with cashed up Ta$man luring people down for NPC too) earlier than others...that breeds success...and success attracts talent...its now self fulfilling to a degree
The Highlanders coaching has been part of the problem... couldn't get the best out of Lo-Willie, Bower, etc. or help them realize their potential, same could be said for Josh Ioane & co who're now thriving at the Chiefs under McMillan...
The difference between Razor (and say Leon at the Blue$...) is his continual development and progression of his players, in contrast to many All Blacks such as Finlay, Beauden, Akira, Hoskins, RTS, etc.. who have all gone backwards under Leon.
Razor has a unique ability to get the most out of all types of players, no matter how talented they may be, over the years he's developed quite a few limited players into All Blacks & XV members, guys like Brewis, Christie, McAlister, Gardiner, McLeod, Drummond, Bridge, Perry, Ennor, Bower, Lo-Willie, etc.. were/will never be long-term All Blacks. Most of these players wouldn't be talented enough to start for other franchises, Hurricanes, Chiefs, Blues.
Look at guys like Sykes-Martin, Gardiner, O'Neill, Heinz, etc.. contributing off the bench in the playoffs, they certainly don't make the 23 of the other NZ franchises.
Many of those players who have flourished under Razor's coaching have been discards or unwanted by other franchises & have come from nowhere like George Bower. I can't recall Razor signing already developed All Blacks from other franchises.
He's skillful enough to take rough unrefined talent (with limitations that would see them not make other franchises) and still produce diamonds out of them - performances at Super Rugby level. Lio-Willie is another who wasn't even good enough to make the Highlanders 23 and now he's thriving under the superior coaching under Razor.
Unlike Leon's Blues from 2019-2023 where he signed established All Blacks from other franchises - Laulala, Big Carl, Barrett, and their development all stalled.
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@kiwi_expat Bower never played for the Highlanders though
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@Kiwiwomble depth at prop 2018/19, behind Lomax, Tokolahi, Johnstone, Lienert-Brown, etc.. he played for the development side I think. The point is Razor takes relatively unknown talent and is skillful enough to develop them further than they would've elsewhere.
He maximizes his resources, he doesn't require already developed All Blacks to be successful (unlike Leon) he takes rough unrefined talent and gets them punching well above their weight at SR level.
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Bower was picked up as a injury sub during the season at First then was retained the next year.
Jason Ryan picked him out and schooled him up. -
@kiwi_expat Lio-Willie was ignored by Otago for too long. Then when the Highlanders did notice him they didn't take his talent seriously. He should have immediately been given a decent contract. Instead, was a cover player. By the time he was on the paddock for us, he was starting, then got injured. At that point he probably made up his mind. Bower, Moorby and Hotham are the other ones where more of an effort should have been made.
