All Blacks 2023
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:
Same thing isn't it?
Pretty much. One has a more positive sound, one has a more negative.
I think KW was getting too hung up on the tone of the words
i think the phrase "still learning" suggests someone cant execute something to the required level, you'd hope in a RWC year we'd be polishing rather than carving, but if what we mean is he's working on getting from 80% there to 90% there then all good
My biggest (possibly unfounded) concern is that RI isn't quite the defence organiser yet and the impact is felt through Clarke. I'm not blaming Rieko for Clarke's misreads just wondering if we would be less worried about Clarkes defence if there was more security in having his centre direct him. Same goes for the fullback giving directions and I don't think it is a strong point of either of the Barretts.
It's the combinations that worry me.
How I wish we had Conrad out there waving and yelling....12 and fullback should be leading, not the centre. Centre is the hardest position to defend from, you need to hear voices not be the voice.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
Barring injuries....
ED, ST, TL
SW, BR
SB, SC, AS
AS, RM, CC(?), JB, RI, WJ, BBWho are your backs replacements?
A bunch of Ninjas that we're not telling the Welsh RU about!
Ah, what the hell...
Actually, I don't know who the reserve halfback will be, because Fozzie did the entirely unexpected last year (for me) and picked two rookies in Christie and Fakatava - when he should have picked just one. I thought Perenara had just about played his way back into pole position, but then he got broken - Weber and Roigard probably also somewhere in the frame, but it's as murky as a murky thing.
Lienert-Brown and Telea for the other two.
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I think RI is maturing probably about the right time.
Sure he has work ons, but not many dont.
If we can give him enough good front foot ball, he could be a star of the RWC.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2023:
Sure he has work ons, but not many dont.
That's really the problem, when you compare this team to the 2015 vintage (and why I chose 2011 earlier).
If everyone in your team makes one mistake per game, then you've already got 15 mistakes - and if some people make two or three mistakes - then you're going to start to lose.
In 2015 we had people like Ben Smith who literally went whole seasons without making a mistake (ironically he made one in the RWC final). Conrad would string together multiple games without a bad error. Danny-Boy could do it. Ma'a didn't make many and nor did Aaron Smith. A good basis for really good (not perfect) rugby. But, we may never see another team like that one.
We don't have the same consistency in our current group of players. We're playing a brand of higher risk and reward rugby - probably a bit more like our ill-fated 1999 and 2003 teams. Doesn't mean we can't win - but, I'm not hurrying to the TAB to bet my fortune on us.
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@Chris-B this is why I like Harmon a lot but not sure where he fits in the 7 rankings as AB as he cleans up a lot of Clan mistakes but would he still shine in a very good attacking team? Not sure but think so/hope so.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
Barring injuries....
ED, ST, TL
SW, BR
SB, SC, AS
AS, RM, CC(?), JB, RI, WJ, BBWho are your backs replacements?
A bunch of Ninjas that we're not telling the Welsh RU about!
Ah, what the hell...
Actually, I don't know who the reserve halfback will be, because Fozzie did the entirely unexpected last year (for me) and picked two rookies in Christie and Fakatava - when he should have picked just one. I thought Perenara had just about played his way back into pole position, but then he got broken - Weber and Roigard probably also somewhere in the frame, but it's as murky as a murky thing.
Lienert-Brown and Telea for the other two.
If Roigard, DMac and Telea don't get significant game time at the sharp end then you can kiss goodbye to the Cup IMHO
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@nostrildamus I think Cane, Papali'i and Blackadder are all ahead of Billy in the 7 queue - I reckon he'll need injuries to make it.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
@nostrildamus I think Cane, Papali'i and Blackadder are all a
head of Billy in the 7 queue - I reckon he'll need injuries to make it.Fair enough.
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Haha good one josh. Couldn't agree more for the highlanders, couldn't agree less for the ABs. Would be great to see Frizzel at lock and Barrett at 6 🤮
Former All Black flanker backs potential Shannon Frizell position change
The No 6 jersey has been one of the most difficult to hold down throughout Ian Foster's tenure as All Blacks head coach.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B this is why I like Harmon a lot but not sure where he fits in the 7 rankings as AB as he cleans up a lot of Clan mistakes but would he still shine in a very good attacking team? Not sure but think so/hope so.
unfortunately i think Harmon will be added to that list of international class players that never got a shot at a higher honors because they were behind world class players, if i was him id be finding a scottish grandmother
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@Chris-B comparing to the 2015 team is a fools errand. Arguably the finest rugby team ever assembled. A bunch of guys who are either all time greats for NZ, or in some cases the world. All playing well at the same time. That's lightening strike stuff.
Even the lessor lights of the team, like the back 3 or the hookers, were great players. Ridiculous side.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
Haha good one josh. Couldn't agree more for the highlanders, couldn't agree less for the ABs. Would be great to see Frizzel at lock and Barrett at 6 🤮
Former All Black flanker backs potential Shannon Frizell position change
The No 6 jersey has been one of the most difficult to hold down throughout Ian Foster's tenure as All Blacks head coach.
You don't get it Bones. A FORMER ALL BLACK is saying he's good at lock.
We should all bow in reverence. -
@Frank said in All Blacks 2023:
You don't get it Bones. A FORMER ALL BLACK is saying he's good at lock.
We should all bow in reverence.It's an interesting headline choice by the editor. If it was an ex player whose opinion is respected they would use his name. No one is clicking on "Kronfeld says.."
His greatest moment of punditry was when he claimed the ABs were giving away jerseys because they picked McCaw off of NPC form
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‘The time is right’: All Blacks manager steps down after 19 years
All Blacks Manager Darren Shand has announced he will be leaving the team.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B comparing to the 2015 team is a fools errand. Arguably the finest rugby team ever assembled. A bunch of guys who are either all time greats for NZ, or in some cases the world. All playing well at the same time. That's lightening strike stuff.
Even the lessor lights of the team, like the back 3 or the hookers, were great players. Ridiculous side.
Yeah - I know. And if Sam Whitelock hadn't stolen that lineout they could have been beaten in the semi. But, he did!!!
That's why I drew my main comparison with the 2011 team.
By comparison 2015 scored 14 tries in the play-offs and 2011 scored 4. France was pretty soft in the 2015 QF though.
If we happen to win the whole thing it will be interesting to select merged teams - right now, it's pretty hard not to be biased towards the guys who have already got it done.
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That 2011 GF side still had Smith, Nonu, McCaw, Read, Kaino, Whitelock (but baby Sam), Kev and Woodcock.
Yes there are heaps of spots that 2023 vintage players would take (arguably the whole back 3, halfbacks, other lock) but those "lessor" players in 2011 had an incredible core to help them out.
Aside from the 2015 hangover players, are there any in teh 23 at the moment that you think will end up in the AB ATG conversation? Probably not. It took better teams than this to win it, but better teams than this have also lost it.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
Aside from the 2015 hangover players, are there any in teh 23 at the moment that you think will end up in the AB ATG conversation? Probably not. It took better teams than this to win it, but better teams than this have also lost it.
Some way to go, because it's early days for most of them.
Samisoni and My boy Will are possibilities. Maybe even Rieko in another cycle. Who knows what we'll be saying about our props 10 years from now.
