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AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP

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allblacks
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AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP
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  • MN5M Online
    MN5M Online
    MN5
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #30
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  • nostrildamusN Offline
    nostrildamusN Offline
    nostrildamus
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #31

    @Chris-B said in [AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP]

    A while ago I re-read one of Terry McLean's books where he put up some kicking stats for Don. He's miles short of good modern kickers.

    Were the balls as consistent in Don's day?

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  • canefanC Online
    canefanC Online
    canefan
    replied to nostrildamus on last edited by
    #32

    @nostrildamus said in AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP:

    @Chris-B said in [AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP]

    A while ago I re-read one of Terry McLean's books where he put up some kicking stats for Don. He's miles short of good modern kickers.

    Were the balls as consistent in Don's day?

    Heavy when wet

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  • kiwiinmelbK Offline
    kiwiinmelbK Offline
    kiwiinmelb
    wrote on last edited by
    #33

    Amazing player , in the days when backline play was less about physicality, he was beautiful to watch ,

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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    wrote on last edited by taniwharugby
    #34

    they mentioned on the news Robertson refused to play SA in '81 which effectively ended his career, which was something I didnt realise.

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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to nostrildamus on last edited by Chris B.
    #35

    @nostrildamus Whether or not - McLean says that in his best years The Don was a 50% kicker.

    On his last tour, when his kicking faded, McLean counted 32 conversions and 41 misses, 18 penalties and 56 misses, 6 drop goals and 16 misses. 50/147 from place kicks.

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  • nostrildamusN Offline
    nostrildamusN Offline
    nostrildamus
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #36

    @Chris-B said in AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP:

    @nostrildamus Whether or not - McLean says that in his best years The Don was a 50% kicker.

    On his last tour, when his kicking faded, McLean counted 32 conversions and 41 misses, 18 penalties and 56 misses, 6 drop goals and 16 misses. 50/147 from place kicks.

    heavy (slippery when wet) leather and he kicked with his toe (I think they also held the ball for the player?) and he often kicked for mad distances (for the time) so that might need to be considered.

    Chris B.C 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Chris B.C Offline
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    Chris B.
    replied to nostrildamus on last edited by
    #37

    @nostrildamus He was miles better than pretty much anyone else at the time, but that returns to my original point - especially in The Don's day, goal-kicking was very much an afterthought. (We didn't finally learn the lesson until the mid-1970s).

    Around Don's time, I think the Brits were still arguing that having a coach was unsporting!

    nostrildamusN Victor MeldrewV Dan54D canefanC broughieB 5 Replies Last reply
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  • nostrildamusN Offline
    nostrildamusN Offline
    nostrildamus
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #38

    @Chris-B said in AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP:

    Around Don's time, I think the Brits were still arguing that having a coach was unsporting!

    Didn't know that, thanks!

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  • G Offline
    G Offline
    Gunner
    wrote on last edited by
    #39

    What sad news.

    Unfortunately he was before my time, never saw him play.

    As a human being he was as good a bloke as you’ll ever come across.

    RIP legend.

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  • Victor MeldrewV Offline
    Victor MeldrewV Offline
    Victor Meldrew
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by Victor Meldrew
    #40

    @Chris-B said in AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP:

    @nostrildamus He was miles better than pretty much anyone else at the time, but that returns to my original point - especially in The Don's day, goal-kicking was very much an afterthought. (We didn't finally learn the lesson until the mid-1970s).

    From what I've read, Clarke was much more than just a kicker. His ball handling and catching was regarded as exceptional (he was a First Class cricketer), particularly in the wet and with the mud.

    Around Don's time, I think the Brits were still arguing that having a coach was unsporting!

    They were complaining about decoy runners in Bruce Robertson's time...

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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to Victor Meldrew on last edited by
    #41

    @Victor-Meldrew A massive man for that day and age, as well - especially for a back. McLean says he'd "trimmed down" to a fighting weight of 105kgs. Other "Big" backs in those days probably struggled to reach 80kgs.

    n.b. I see Bruce listed at 86kgs, but he was a big back 15 years after Don retired..

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  • CatograndeC Offline
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    Catogrande
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #42

    @Chris-B said in AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP:

    @Catogrande said in AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP:

    @Chris-B said in AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP:

    @Dan54 That 1976 tour reminds me of how the likes of JJ Stewart hadn't yet appreciated the importance of goal kicking - the Jaapies were well ahead of us in picking Gerald Bosch.

    Cough. Cough. Don Clarke. Cough.

    We'd forgotten.

    Our test goal-kickers on that tour were Williams and Going, who were pretty much 30 percent men by today's standards.

    Laurie Mains was the only decent kicker on the tour, but was perceived to be too slow in general play and Kit Fawcett - better kicker than the other two, but too flaky.

    A while ago I re-read one of Terry McLean's books where he put up some kicking stats for Don. He's miles short of good modern kickers.

    So many things mitigating against kickers in days gone by:

    The grounds were not as well looked after/muddier underfoot
    No tees
    The balls were heavier and less aerodynamic
    The thick laces on the balls...
    The leather absorbed any water and the balls became even heavier
    The boots were awful in comparison
    No kicking coaches
    No scientific analysis

    There's a reason that penalties and DGs were worth the same as tries back in the day - they were bloody difficult to achieve.

    Victor MeldrewV 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Victor MeldrewV Offline
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    Victor Meldrew
    replied to Catogrande on last edited by Victor Meldrew
    #43

    @Catogrande

    Pierre Villepreux. Wet leather ball. No Tee. Athletic Park. 65m. Over the posts with room to spare.

    And people think Jordie Barrett has a big boot.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/119514636/when-a-french-fullback-wowed-all-blacks-crowds-with-goals-worthy-of-jordie-barretts-monster-effort

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  • Dan54D Offline
    Dan54D Offline
    Dan54
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #44

    @Chris-B said in AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP:

    @nostrildamus He was miles better than pretty much anyone else at the time, but that returns to my original point - especially in The Don's day, goal-kicking was very much an afterthought. (We didn't finally learn the lesson until the mid-1970s).

    Around Don's time, I think the Brits were still arguing that having a coach was unsporting!

    Lol yep the 1966 Lions captain was also coach Michael Campbell-Lamberton. Mind you, I think back then touchies were reserves from each teamand no replacements allowed. A bit has changed.

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  • CatograndeC Offline
    CatograndeC Offline
    Catogrande
    replied to Dan54 on last edited by
    #45

    @Dan54

    John Robins (Wales) was the official coach on the 66 tour, which was the first time that position was officially nominated. Previously we had “assistant managers”.

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  • canefanC Online
    canefanC Online
    canefan
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #46

    @Chris-B said in AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP:

    @nostrildamus He was miles better than pretty much anyone else at the time, but that returns to my original point - especially in The Don's day, goal-kicking was very much an afterthought. (We didn't finally learn the lesson until the mid-1970s).

    Around Don's time, I think the Brits were still arguing that having a coach was unsporting!

    They caught up soon enough

    alt text

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  • broughieB Offline
    broughieB Offline
    broughie
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #47

    @Chris-B A lot of it has to do with the style. Toe poking is pretty erratic and it wasn't until the 80s that Hewie and Deans etc started adopting it. I remember in my youth that most boots had a square toe. I assume designed with this in mind. And this was the technique taught. Probably some aversion from the meat heads to adopting the around the corner "soccer" style.

    So much has changed including the use of a tee and angle of the ball at address.

    Watching that 1976 Springbok tour was so frustrating with the goals kicking poor and there was concern we would lose the 81 tour for the same reason with Botha. But then there was Hewie.

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  • MN5M Online
    MN5M Online
    MN5
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by MN5
    #48

    @Chris-B fairly sure Clarke was the heaviest AB in the team including all the forwards !

    Protein, Creatine and other “supplements” have definitely changed things a bit in recent times. Robertson being 86kg at 186cm seems bloody slim though even for then !

    Chris B.C kiwiinmelbK 2 Replies Last reply
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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to MN5 on last edited by
    #49

    @MN5 That's my memory as well - that Don was usually the biggest.

    On the kicking thing, while it's true that the balls, boots, etc were more difficult - the key thing was, I'm pretty sure, the relative amount of practice and technical proficiency of the kickers.

    Here's what McLean has to say in 1964:

    "...goalkicking these days is reducible to a simple study of aim, body balance and leverage and to practice comparable with that which a low handicap golfer gives to his hitting with woods and irons. For the British to point the finger at Clarke and to ask, after one of his great days, "Yes, but was this really rugby?" was to point the finger at the laziness and/or ineptitude of their own players. One hears again their cry, "Of course we don't play our Rugby that way". But, why not? The goalkick in Rugby is the long putt in golf or the push through midwicket in cricket - something infinitely exasperating to the other side but wonderfully profitable when it is done by your team."

    I'll see if I can fish out what he had to say about our goal-kicking in 1976 - I recall JJ Stewart had a bit of a whinge at the end of the tour about kicking vs running rugby, something about let's all give up and go to the beach - and I think TP didn't have much sympathy.

    On the coaching thing - it was very much related to the amateur vs professional thing - and league vs union. Coaching was a step towards professionalism, which was an anathema to the traditionalists. There used to be rules that home test teams couldn't assemble until two days before the test....to discourage them from practicing! Provincial teams that played warm-ups before playing a touring side were frowned upon, etc, etc...

    McLean's books are fascinating to read some of this history.

    Victor MeldrewV 1 Reply Last reply
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AB Great, Bruce Robertson - RIP
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