Super Rugby 2023
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@Stargazer I actually agree. Opening eligibility seems highly unlikely to address the imbalance, particularly when the NZ sides will still have roughly double the operating budget.
Really should've just stuck with a domestic competition on both sides with a couple of trans- Ta$man games at the end.
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Dan54 You've cracked it there mate. I think you should write to RA detailing how they should 'man up'. I'm sure they'd be curious to know this one simple step they can take to solve all of Rugby's problems.
Not sure I was talking about rugby's problems, simply saying why I don't agree with idea of NZ players (or ABs) should play in Aussie teams. All I suggesting is to stop assuming it's up to NZ to fill up their teams with quality players. Someone has t realise it's not always everyone else's fault some of the Aussie teams are not competing well. Brumbies have no problems, and I get feeling a team like Rebels is well on way to do exactly that. 'manning up' (as you well know what I mean) and seem to be setting up and keeping a good coaching team, as well as improving player stocks. See I don't believe the comp will ever be made better by trying to weaken kiwi teams(even to help Aus teams) but for them to strengthen their teams. I would be absolutely stoked if Aus teams were all more competitive.
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@Dan54 well it's only NZRU's responsibility in so far as they want a healthy competition in which to blood potential All Blacks. And presumably to provide entertainment to fans (very much a secondary priority to all involved in managing SR). You act like they get nothing out of Super Rugby.
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@Derpus Yep I do think NZR have a responsibility mate, but seems you don't think it's also RA's to build Aussie's teams, you know they can strengthen their teams from anywhwere in world (not just NZ), and even do things like setting up a secondary comp (NRC etc) to help build depth. NZR's very first job is to look after NZ rugby, same as RA's is to look after Australian rugby, Fiji's is to look after Fijian rugby etc.
I know there no easy answer, but the main one isn't for NZ to supply the playing talent, we are in a position where as I said RA wants/needs 5 teams, so probably have to find way to full them. You know they can get and do have NZ players over there already don't you, and it's not a problem. -
@Dan54 New Zealand already is contributing significantly to the depth of Aussie rugby it is not like it is not already happening. If you were to go to grassroots levels and feeder teams to the Aussie franchises I am very sure that a significant number of their up and coming players are also Kiwis or of Kiwi descent in some way. The Aussie teams haven't done too badly this year, no real blowout scorelines other than the Blues game.
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This looks like the most even round of the competition so far
Chiefs/Crusaders, Hurricanes/Brumbies are right next to each other on the table
Drua are a lot harder at home and should be tricky for the Blues
Tahs/Highlanders, Reds/Force looked evenly matched
Even MP has a decent chance to break thier duck vs the Rebels at Mt Smart
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@Duluth said in Super Rugby 2023:
This looks like the most even round of the competition so far
Chiefs/Crusaders, Hurricanes/Brumbies are right next to each other on the table
Drua are a lot harder at home and should be tricky for the Blues
Tahs/Highlanders, Reds/Force looked evenly matched
Even MP has a decent chance to break thier duck vs the Rebels at Mt Smart
I am so scared to tip on this one. It is flip of a coin stuff on the winner but that also doesn't mean that the scores will be close
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apparently this week is the "Culture Round"....not sure what exactly thats going to entail? is this the "heritage round" with a new name and so some aussie teams will crack out a retro jersey etc?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
apparently this week is the "Culture Round"....not sure what exactly thats going to entail? is this the "heritage round" with a new name and so some aussie teams will crack out a retro jersey etc?
A recognition that Australian rugby is dependent on brown people?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
apparently this week is the "Culture Round"....not sure what exactly thats going to entail? is this the "heritage round" with a new name and so some aussie teams will crack out a retro jersey etc?
Aussie teams have been named with flags of their heritage, and player with Maoti etc have the Maori flag alongside etc.
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Hore nails the issue I reckon. And incredible figures comparing NRL to Super; $100M vs $16M in '96, and now NRL has gone from 16 to more than $400M. Compared to NRL and NH comps, Super has gone backwards bigtime.
Hore's been very impressive at the Blues; hope this gets a discussion started inside NZR because if they keep going down this road they will lose. If NRL was prime time in NZ, I think you'd lose a huge number of viewers to it; it's demonstrably a better, more enjoyable product (that I'm not interested in, to be clear)
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@Tim yep nailed it, exactly my sentiment.
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"Like, would you believe, Super Rugby does not even have its own administration, its own board, its own leadership and decision-making structure. The intent is there, but common ground has been difficult to find."
“For it to become the competition we want it to be we need to have people working on it 24/7 and to do that you need to build capacity and strategic direction,” adds the Blues boss. ”We need an independent board like the NRL, like the AFL, which enables an independent management team to be built which can then be thinking, growing and developing the competition.”
"Hore sees two pathways for NZ Rugby and their mates in Australia. “Either you go like cricket and run little high-performance hubs and basically diminish what we have; or if you want to thrive and challenge the NRL and AFL we’ve got to invest, to allow people to be thinking about it every day and we’ve got to think big. That’s also going to take some empowerment for people."
“We need to be fan-centric, and at the moment we’re high-performance-centric and the balance isn’t quite right. It’s about what the fan wants, what they need to see, and that can sometimes go against high performance.”
“At the moment we’re still hitched to the national bodies, and they’re not necessarily motivated to make franchises better. That’s the issue. The national bodies need to decide: do we want to build a product that everyone’s going to cherish and reinvest in; or do we want to run it, and own everything?"
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2023:
"Like, would you believe, Super Rugby does not even have its own administration, its own board, its own leadership and decision-making structure. The intent is there, but common ground has been difficult to find."
“For it to become the competition we want it to be we need to have people working on it 24/7 and to do that you need to build capacity and strategic direction,” adds the Blues boss. ”We need an independent board like the NRL, like the AFL, which enables an independent management team to be built which can then be thinking, growing and developing the competition.”
"Hore sees two pathways for NZ Rugby and their mates in Australia. “Either you go like cricket and run little high-performance hubs and basically diminish what we have; or if you want to thrive and challenge the NRL and AFL we’ve got to invest, to allow people to be thinking about it every day and we’ve got to think big. That’s also going to take some empowerment for people."
“We need to be fan-centric, and at the moment we’re high-performance-centric and the balance isn’t quite right. It’s about what the fan wants, what they need to see, and that can sometimes go against high performance.”
“At the moment we’re still hitched to the national bodies, and they’re not necessarily motivated to make franchises better. That’s the issue. The national bodies need to decide: do we want to build a product that everyone’s going to cherish and reinvest in; or do we want to run it, and own everything?"
Fuck me, lets create the board and put that man in charge, love everything he said. We really do need to look at the AFL and figure out how they have some of the highest attendance figures on a regular basis.
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2023:
Hore nails the issue I reckon. And incredible figures comparing NRL to Super; $100M vs $16M in '96, and now NRL has gone from 16 to more than $400M. Compared to NRL and NH comps, Super has gone backwards bigtime.
Hore's been very impressive at the Blues; hope this gets a discussion started inside NZR because if they keep going down this road they will lose. If NRL was prime time in NZ, I think you'd lose a huge number of viewers to it; it's demonstrably a better, more enjoyable product (that I'm not interested in, to be clear)
I don't think it makes sense to look at those figures and impart anything on what's happening today. Super Rugby now is not the Super Rugby of back then, and neither for that matter is the NRL.
Super Rugby today is essentially a new comp struggling to find it's feet, I'll return to this point. Back then it was set up as part of a war between rival broadcasters, also, the big money in league came after a similar style war and has led to their huge broadcast deals of today. Back in the 90s Aussie league was based more on pokies than broadcast deals.
But, of course the NRL is going to pull in bumper money today, it's huge in two states with two urban areas that both alone have more people or the same as NZ. Because the Saffas left (and the cowardly WR let them) Super Rugby is essentially running on the money that NZ can provide. Comparing NRL with Super Rugby isn't really apples with apples.
As I noted above SRP is a new comp. One that grew out of necessity due to a once in a lifetime event. Also, I know the narrative is to blame NZR for the Saffas leaving, but, we all know that is pure bullshit. Throughout the entirety of SR they were always threatening to leave to the NH. They took their chance when a pandemic hit. They could still be playing SR, that they're not is entirely on them.
On league, it is on life support as a domestic sport in NZ. The numbers have been dropping even in Auckland and they've made a point to specifically not to even blame Covid for it (it's so dead in Hawkes Bay that it didn't even rate a mention in the districts section of the NZRL annual report - I don't think the comp I played in even exists anymore). I don't think it's the slam dunk in NZ that the Warriors having good form this year suggests.
Not sure Hore nailed it, the comp his team plays and his team exists because of the international top down model. From what I can parse out he wants to create a long running NRL style comp run by the privatised "clubs". But, he needs to be focussing on how to make Super work better considering the constraints that do exist. The NZ rugby model likely breaks in its entirety if Super teams become fully private, but some of his ideas can still work within those constraints.
I'm currently watching the Warriors bumble around so wont comment on the "product" aside from to say the hype the NRL, Oz media etc generate is way better than anything rugby comes up with - they can make a game between the two bottom teams in the comp seem like an origin match.
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Lets have a look at the standings, the TAB odds, and the run home for the top 5 teams.
Chiefs: Highlanders away, Reds home, Hurricanes home, Brumbies away, Force away.
Should win 4 or 5 of those.
Brumbies: Rebels away, Highlanders home, Force away, Chiefs home, Rebels home.
Should win 4 or 5 of those.
Hurricanes: Drua away, MP home, Chiefs away, Blues away, Crusaders home.
Should win 2 or 3 of those.
Blues: MP home, Crusaders away, Reds away, Hurricanes home, Highlanders home.
Should win 4 or 5 of those.
Crusaders: Force home, Blues home, MP home, Waratahs home, Hurricanes away.
Should win 4 or 5 of those.
Crusaders probably have the best run home, and could well win all their remaining games. Hurricanes have the toughest.
Lets say that the Chiefs and Crusaders win 5, Blues and Brumbies 4, and Hurricanes 2. With no bonus points, which could be key, that gives:
Chiefs 60
Brumbies 48
Crusaders 48
Blues 46
Hurricanes 39As far as bonus points go, I could see all teams getting 3 each.
That gives the Hurricanes a tough quarterfinal away to the Blues, Crusaders, or Brumbies. The winner of that has to play the Chiefs in Hamilton. Maybe the Crusaders will beat the Brumbies in Canberra, and play the Chiefs in the finals. Blues would really be looking forward to spoiling the party in Hamilton though - after all, they just had to kick some of the many penalties in the Chiefs 22 last time ...
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