All Blacks 2023
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
If they can not achieve that, why are they being paid to be AB coach.
Because no AB coach can sit down - before taking the job on - and 100% predict or control injuries, the quality of the players available to him for his chosen game plan, nor the quality and ability of the opposition to come up with a better game plan, perhaps?
That is why you create live depth charts right down to your u/16s, to understand what your depth is to sustain the game plan you develop, its basic coaching strategy,and wether you have the depth for tweaks you need when variables come along.
I really don't think you can expect a AB Coach - before he's even got the job remember - to produce a winning game plan based on live depth charts down to U16 level that he's developed, and then judge him on the success of that self-same game-plan.
The world just doesn't work like that, sadly.
You know that the game plan doesn’t totally come from depth charts.
It is a tool to understand if you have the players to implement and sustain your game plan.Plus how much depth at different abilities you have and have coming though to keep on top of the changes you always need to freshen your game plan.
You start with a game plan and tweak it as you hit variables coming at you from the opposition and internally.
But if you don’t know the players abilities,current form,ability under pressure,work ethic,ability to fit into culture,how they take on board coaching advice, likely future development you are stuck at sea and are guessing and hoping it all comes together.I am sure you are well aware of all of that,but you want to come from one certain angle so it does not suit your argument.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
If they can not achieve that, why are they being paid to be AB coach.
Because no AB coach can sit down - before taking the job on - and 100% predict or control injuries, the quality of the players available to him for his chosen game plan, nor the quality and ability of the opposition to come up with a better game plan, perhaps?
That is why you create live depth charts right down to your u/16s, to understand what your depth is to sustain the game plan you develop, its basic coaching strategy,and wether you have the depth for tweaks you need when variables come along.
I really don't think you can expect a AB Coach - before he's even got the job remember - to produce a winning game plan based on live depth charts down to U16 level that he's developed, and then judge him on the success of that self-same game-plan.
The world just doesn't work like that, sadly.
You know that the game plan doesn’t totally come from depth charts.
It is a tool to understand if you have the players to implement and sustain your game plan.Plus how much depth at different abilities you have and have coming though to keep on top of the changes you always need to freshen your game plan.
You start with a game plan and tweak it as you hit variables coming at you from the opposition and internally.
But if you don’t know the players abilities,current form,ability under pressure,work ethic,ability to fit into culture,how they take on board coaching advice, likely future development you are stuck at sea and are guessing and hoping it all comes together.I am sure you are well aware of all of that,but you want to come from one certain angle so it does not suit your argument.
Pretty sure that depth plan alignment with strategy is the reason why we see some players pulled into the set up ahead of others that are arguably better.
It's not just a case of being better it is whether you either have, or have the forseen ability, to play a certain way.Take halfback as an example. Let's say that the strategy/game plans are based around a speed to clear the ball and nothing else. Player Cs USP is a little different, they are an extra loosie type halfback that directs play off hand and boot and has an eye to get over the advantage line. Very effective, and shining at another level, but may not fit the role being planned for.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
If they can not achieve that, why are they being paid to be AB coach.
Because no AB coach can sit down - before taking the job on - and 100% predict or control injuries, the quality of the players available to him for his chosen game plan, nor the quality and ability of the opposition to come up with a better game plan, perhaps?
That is why you create live depth charts right down to your u/16s, to understand what your depth is to sustain the game plan you develop, its basic coaching strategy,and wether you have the depth for tweaks you need when variables come along.
I really don't think you can expect a AB Coach - before he's even got the job remember - to produce a winning game plan based on live depth charts down to U16 level that he's developed, and then judge him on the success of that self-same game-plan.
The world just doesn't work like that, sadly.
You know that the game plan doesn’t totally come from depth charts.
It is a tool to understand if you have the players to implement and sustain your game plan.Plus how much depth at different abilities you have and have coming though to keep on top of the changes you always need to freshen your game plan.
You start with a game plan and tweak it as you hit variables coming at you from the opposition and internally.
But if you don’t know the players abilities,current form,ability under pressure,work ethic,ability to fit into culture,how they take on board coaching advice, likely future development you are stuck at sea and are guessing and hoping it all comes together.I am sure you are well aware of all of that,but you want to come from one certain angle so it does not suit your argument.
Pretty sure that depth plan alignment with strategy is the reason why we see some players pulled into the set up ahead of others that are arguably better.
It's not just a case of being better it is whether you either have, or have the forseen ability, to play a certain way.Take halfback as an example. Let's say that the strategy/game plans are based around a speed to clear the ball and nothing else. Player Cs USP is a little different, they are an extra loosie type halfback that directs play off hand and boot and has an eye to get over the advantage line. Very effective, and shining at another level, but may not fit the role being planned for.
100 % agree with you you can see it mapped out.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
I'm going to start by quoting an un-named journo* on Richie. "The finest Super Rugby player of all time"!
I think he's right -I think you are very blinkered in what you draw beyond this. There is much more to being a test 10 and I have yet to see it delivered consistently. My biggest concern is that his test level weaknesses do not seem to be improving and can be targeted by good opposition. Not sure he is our best rwc starting candidate yet unless he tightens up his play and seeks constant control over opportunism.
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@ARHS said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
I'm going to start by quoting an un-named journo* on Richie. "The finest Super Rugby player of all time"!
I think he's right -I think you are very blinkered in what you draw beyond this. There is much more to being a test 10 and I have yet to see it delivered consistently. My biggest concern is that his test level weaknesses do not seem to be improving and can be targeted by good opposition. Not sure he is our best rwc starting candidate yet unless he tightens up his play and seeks constant control over opportunism.
Last RWC it was a massive coaching mistake to think they could hide him on defence. It provided a target for others to exploit. I think his defence has improved since then but there will still be patterns in his play and decision making that good coaches will be building plans around.
He's not entirely a front foot player but (like BB) his positive abilities are just about all when on the front foot. -
@Crucial yeah, rugby isn't like some sports where there are places you can hide, in AFL they often talk about have a rest up front, but attack can come from anywhere in rugby...the closest thing to somewhere you could rest on D is standing directly behind someone like Kino
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No doubt @Chris-B is over-egging Mo'unga, probably to counter my negativity towards him, the truth probably lies somewhere in between. At the moment I have him alongside someone like Adam Thomson, a super star at Super level, but a lightweight at test level.
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An article in the ODT earlier this year called him the Graeme Hick of rugby
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@No-Quarter i think that's the hardest thing for people to understand, being great at super rugby doesn't mean theyre be great at international, the true greats lift their game in the black jersey...but lots just show they were already playing at the top of their game
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@No-Quarter i think that's the hardest thing for people to understand, being great at super rugby doesn't mean theyre be great at international, the true greats lift their game in the black jersey...but lots just show they were already playing at the top of their game
Akira ?
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@No-Quarter i think that's the hardest thing for people to understand, being great at super rugby doesn't mean theyre be great at international, the true greats lift their game in the black jersey...but lots just show they were already playing at the top of their game
Akira ?
We know you're just trolling here, no Cantab would ever admit to Akira being great at Super level.
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Interesting looking back on the TSF MOTM voting in recent years:
2022
33 Savea
28 Taukeiaho
19 Papali'i
17 R Ioane
13 Whitelock
13 S Barrett
11 Retallick
10 Smith
8 J Barrett
7 Lomax
6 Clarke
5 de Groot
4 A Ioane
4 Sotutu
4 Jordan
3 Telea
3 Reece
3 Bower
3 Cane
2 Perenara
2 Tupaea
1 RTS
1 Taylor
2021
18 Jordie Barrett
18 Akira Ioane
15 Dalton Papali'i
14 Will Jordan
13 Dane Coles
12 Rieko Ioane
12 Sam Whitelock
12 Aaron Smith
12 Luke Jacobson
10 Samisoni Taukeiaho
10 David Havili
10 Quinn Tupaea
10 Ethan Blackadder
8 Beauden Barrett
8 Ardie Savea
8 Brodie Retallick
7 Finlay Christie
5 Codie Taylor
5 Damian McKenzie
4 Sevu Reece
4 Brad Weber
4 Richie Mo'unga
3 Hoskins Sotutu
2 George Bridge
1 Scott Barrett
1 TJ Perenara
1 George BowerIt's harder to find the tally for 2020
But it is interesting to see where the 10's have been rated. BB with some moderate votes in 2021.
Neither 10 even featuring last year! So they never made the top 5 of any TSF vote
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
Interesting looking back on the TSF MOTM voting in recent years:
2022
33 Savea
28 Taukeiaho
19 Papali'i
17 R Ioane
13 Whitelock
13 S Barrett
11 Retallick
10 Smith
8 J Barrett
7 Lomax
6 Clarke
5 de Groot
4 A Ioane
4 Sotutu
4 Jordan
3 Telea
3 Reece
3 Bower
3 Cane
2 Perenara
2 Tupaea
1 RTS
1 Taylor
2021
18 Jordie Barrett
18 Akira Ioane
15 Dalton Papali'i
14 Will Jordan
13 Dane Coles
12 Rieko Ioane
12 Sam Whitelock
12 Aaron Smith
12 Luke Jacobson
10 Samisoni Taukeiaho
10 David Havili
10 Quinn Tupaea
10 Ethan Blackadder
8 Beauden Barrett
8 Ardie Savea
8 Brodie Retallick
7 Finlay Christie
5 Codie Taylor
5 Damian McKenzie
4 Sevu Reece
4 Brad Weber
4 Richie Mo'unga
3 Hoskins Sotutu
2 George Bridge
1 Scott Barrett
1 TJ Perenara
1 George BowerIt's harder to find the tally for 2020
But it is interesting to see where the 10's have been rated. BB with some moderate votes in 2021.
Neither 10 even featuring last year! So they never made the top 5 of any TSF vote
That's quite telling for such a critical position
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2023:
To state the obvious loose forward feels like a real logjam position
Cane/Savea/Papalii feel locked in (also Scott Barrett if you consider him a 6)
That leaves Blackadder/Frizell/Akira/Sotutu/Harmon/MMT/Jacobson fighting for 2-3 spots?
At the moment I don't think Akira, Harmon, MMT, Jacobson would be high up the list options.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2023:
To state the obvious loose forward feels like a real logjam position
Cane/Savea/Papalii feel locked in (also Scott Barrett if you consider him a 6)
That leaves Blackadder/Frizell/Akira/Sotutu/Harmon/MMT/Jacobson fighting for 2-3 spots?
frizell can finally fuck off, withy has been showing him up the last few weeks so cant even point to super level to justify getting a call up anymore
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2023:
To state the obvious loose forward feels like a real logjam position
Cane/Savea/Papalii feel locked in (also Scott Barrett if you consider him a 6)
That leaves Blackadder/Frizell/Akira/Sotutu/Harmon/MMT/Jacobson fighting for 2-3 spots?
frizell can finally fuck off, withy has been showing him up the last few weeks so cant even point to super level to justify getting a call up anymore
Yep looks like he trying to stay injury free for his 2024 off shore contract.
