Super Rugby - Who's it going to be?
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="595763" data-time="1468142121">
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<p>It's probably a topic for a Wallabies/Aust rugby thread of it's own but what is your take on what now seems like a raft of offshore players being able to play for the Wallabies? Is this a good thing long term? I can understand for a one off tournament like the RWC bringing someone in to fill a hole/add experience but it seems to have changed from that already. Correct me if im wrong but guys like the prop looking tahs winger coming straight into the Wallabies from Scotland, Kepu/Horwill coming straight back from o/s and the continued calls for Giteau, AAC, Genia and Mitchell etc. Is it really worth it? Is this going to help build a sustainable production line?</p>
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<p>The long list of expat kiwi Journeymen/former AB fringe guys taking up spot would also be of concern to me if the roles were reversed. Although this is probably a symptom of the over expansion and need to fill rosters within Aust.</p>
<p>C Rettalick, A Mathewson, Z Guildford, A Ta'avau, T Ellison, A Thompson, T Smith, S Masirewa, A Nikoro etc is hardly a list of star recruits that are going to help grow the game. I'd probably only offer NZ Super contracts to Thompson and Ellison out of that list.</p>
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<p>Yes it probably is, but threads about Wallabies things don't tend to get a lot of legs here :)</p>
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<p>It is a good question, and I'm kind of conflicted about how to answer. No doubt, Australian Rugby has failed to a degree to grasp the "national jersey pride" in the same way NZ has. There are a raft of differences at lower levels that makes the two situations distinct of course (rugby league presence being a fairly significant one), and the ARU are trying to address pathways as I said.</p>
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<p>Ultimately, I think bringing back players in positions where we're light on is a good short-term goal, but ultimately we need to develop those positions ourselves. I'm cautious about the Giteau Rule overall - if it helps us win a Bledisloe then fucking awesome because that is a shot in the arm for the sport. But I didn't honestly think it would make it past RWC as a system.</p>
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<p>We can't develop players with less professional teams at the moment. We don't have a large enough domestic competition to support players coming through and maturing, and quite a lot of the time even our second tier guys are getting offers overseas, and not always for big money.</p>
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<p>Its a five- or ten-year process to get the new pathways happening so there are no easy answers. Particularly when you're involved in the pursuit of victory and that isn't always easy with the competition we've got across the ditch.</p>
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<p>The NZRFU made hard decisions years back about the NPC, and they weren't necessarily popular. That, and the right culture, has ensured the production line continues.</p>
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<p>The quality of coaching here is also not good, and has resulted in players departing because of bullshit like Richard Graham, which is down to our nepotistic, small-minded attitude to the politics of the sport. This includes club rugby which refuses to acknowledge the primacy of NRC as our chosen professional pathway. But that is a whole 'nother story...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="596060" data-time="1468325137">
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<p>Ackermann is resting 15 Lions players for the trip to Argentina. The Lions may still win the match but I'd predict the outcome is closer to 50:50 now. In their favour they will know the results of all the other matches before they play.</p>
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<p>I think this is the right move. The travel to Arg and back could scupper their run at the quarter final stage. This gives them the best chance of going deep into the finals. If they make the grand final, anything can happen (although only once has a team hopped on an international flight and won a final).</p>
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<p>Although in saying that what will their draw be like next year, are the conferences staying the same? If they're not then maybe they should be going all in and try to secure top spot this year.....</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="596064" data-time="1468336273">
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<p>although only once has a team hopped on an international flight and won a final).</p>
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<p>Crusaders in 2000? </p>
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<p>Fark I remember that game. seeing some of the fatties pick themselves up off the floor at the end of the game and rush defend again and again ... as I said to my mates at the time 'you can't coach that shit'. Just a phenomenal team back then. Must drag that final out and re-watch it.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="596064" data-time="1468336273">
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<p>I think this is the right move. The travel to Arg and back could scupper their run at the quarter final stage. This gives them the best chance of going deep into the finals. If they make the grand final, anything can happen (although only once has a team hopped on an international flight and won a final).</p>
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<p>The Lions are guaranteed a home QF but could miss out on a home SF and final if they don't win, as they could fall to 3rd (PD is good though). It's a calculated risk but it has opened the door for a NZ team to secure homefield advantage during the playoffs.</p>
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<p>Although in saying that what will their draw be like next year, are the conferences staying the same? If they're not then maybe they should be going all in and try to secure top spot this year.....</p>
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<p>I assume the NZ teams will play the AC1 teams (Stormers, Bulls etc) next season and the Lions only play the Aust teams from outside the African conferences. So their draw is tougher this year.</p> -
<p>also means 2 Kiwi sides head to SA next week to face the Lions and Stormers (assuming the Lions don't get over the line v the Jaguares - which would be a huge morale boost if they do)</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="596106" data-time="1468360278"><p>The Lions are guaranteed a home QF but could miss out on a home SF and final if they don't win, as they could fall to 3rd (PD is good though). It's a calculated risk but it has opened the door for a NZ team to secure homefield advantage during the playoffs.<br><br><br>
I assume the NZ teams will play the AC1 teams (Stormers, Bulls etc) next season and the Lions only play the Aust teams from outside the African conferences. So their draw is tougher this year.</p></blockquote>
Does the conference makeup stay the same? So the Lions will still have the Kings and Jaguars in their conference?<br><br>
That's pretty shit that they get two completely new franchises who still have their training wheels on. Meanwhile the Hurricanes, for example, get four ex/current Champs! -
<p>An incredible final weekend of Rugby with so maby interesting match ups.</p>
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<p>Amazing to think one of 4 NZ teams in the final round could top the conference.</p>
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<p>Stoked I am going to miss the Chiefs game as going to a thing up in Auckland where I will be the odd one out as everyone else will be horsey types who don't really follow rugby! Good times</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="596112" data-time="1468361320">
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<p>Does the conference makeup stay the same? So the Lions will still have the Kings and Jaguars in their conference?<br><br>
That's pretty shit that they get two completely new franchises who still have their training wheels on. Meanwhile the Hurricanes, for example, get four ex/current Champs!</p>
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<p>Who said life was fair! But doesn't that make it a better team and player, that you can compete against the best? Isn't that what we all have been arguing for in SR, more quality than quantity?</p>
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<p>The fact that numbers have been dwindling at stadiums in the Republic and on TV suggest that SANZAR has some serious issues at hand. Unfortunately it is lead by a plonker.</p>
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<p>PS. Money talks and bullshit walks.</p> -
I've made my bet at the TAB. I have slapped down $25 on the chiefs to win. I was told if I wait until after this round the odds will go down. Part of my bet is based on Liam<br>Messam playing.<br><br>I realise that Liam had mixed results as an All Black especially when he first started as an AB. But he is a very fine Super Rugby player and he really buys into Chiefs Mana.<br><br>He will be worth his weight in gold in the dressing room. Heck, if Liam Messam looked me in the face and told me to play with pride for the Chiefs whanau it would mean something<br>to me. There was an awesome little snippet of him before a playoff match started a few years ago. I wish I had it on tape. He looked fired up and said a few key words in Te Reo<br>admist getting his general point across in everyday english. It worked well. He plays with pride and I think my $25 could pay if he plays. Which I concede is an if.<br><br>This may be a bit far fetched but he has been one of the more consistent Chiefs I have seen play out of any chiefs team.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="596106" data-time="1468360278"><p>
The Lions are guaranteed a home QF but could miss out on a home SF and final if they don't win, as they<strong> could fall to 3rd</strong> (PD is good though). It's a calculated risk but it has opened the door for a NZ team to secure homefield advantage during the playoffs.<br><br></p></blockquote>
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No they can't. They'd be at worst 2nd. Because Conferences. It's not points. Brumbies/Tahs and Stormers can't get past them. If they win their QF they host an SF. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="596583" data-time="1468531134">
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<p>No they can't. They'd be at worst 2nd. Because Conferences. It's not points. Brumbies/Tahs and Stormers can't get past them. If they win their QF they host an SF.</p>
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<p>Yes, I realised my mistake yesterday and was meaning to correct it.</p>
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<p>The Lions are either #1 or #2. The Stormers are set as #3 and the Brumbies or Tahs are #4. Any of the NZ teams can finish 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th or 7th. The Sharks or Bulls will be #8.</p> -
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/82168543/sixtry-sharks-book-playoff-place'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/82168543/sixtry-sharks-book-playoff-place</a></p>
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<p>The Sharks will be seeded eighth for the quarterfinals, which means they will face the team that finishes top in the overall standings, either compatriots the Lions or the Chiefs. Their opponents will be decided on Saturday.</p>
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<p>Seriously, who are the dumb motherfuckers who write/check/publish this shit?</p>
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<p>Not only apparently a total lack of understanding of basic mathematics, but the permutations have been discussed ad nauseum for several weeks.</p>
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<p>You simply have to be both incompetent and as thick as pigshit.</p> -
So Lions could get a BP and finish on same as canes, they will have same wins, so would that then go to the match the canes hammered them in? <br><br>
So the table topping brumbies(surely) and stormers both finish with less points than Chiefs, highlanders and crusaders.... -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="597313" data-time="1468661753">
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<p>So Lions could get a BP and finish on same as canes, they will have same wins, so would that then go to the match the canes hammered them in?<br><br>
So the table topping brumbies(surely) and stormers both finish with less points than Chiefs, highlanders and crusaders....</p>
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<p>It goes to points difference I think and tthe Lions have a better PD than the 'canes.</p>
