Foster, Robertson etc
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I'd like those claiming Joseph is the better coach to at least attempt to back it up with some evidence - they can't.
Joseph has had a couple of notable successes interspersed between inconsistent poor results and that has been a constant throughout his coaching career - Wellington, Maori All Blacks, Highlanders, Japan. His record is good on the surface level however upon closer examination it's not nearly as impressive as people make it to be, he's almost developed a bit of a mythical status where people have extremely selective memories, his reputation isn't affected by performances and poor results simply equates to good international experience.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
This site lists coaching stats - not sure they're 100% accurate, but they seem not far away....
It appears that Joseph's record with Japan is even worse than I remember 47% (compared to Eddie's 66%).
Joseph is treated similar to Rennie (on TSF) where seemingly the more his international side loses the more his reputation increases.
Let's hope NZR appoint this time based off actual on-field coaching results - as opposed to simply how well they interview.
The latter approach resulted in appointing a guy in 2019 without any record of success as a head coach at any level.
After all it remains that the best predictor for future performance is past performance in a previous identical role.
Do you seriously compare a stacked Super team's results with a Tier 2/3 international one? Especially when said low tier side courts tier 1 games.
Japan probably play against more tier one sides than most lower tier countries.
Raw stats don't tell the story at all.
Otherwise Razor has a 0% test record. -
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
let me translate
"Scott Robertson is the only choice no matter what criteria you choose and anyone who disagrees with me is incompetent"
the actual words don't matter.
Had the Fernies happened this was the easiest Broken Record winner in the history of the award
I'd like for those claiming Joseph is the better coach to at least attempt to back it up with some evidence - they can't.
Joseph has had a couple of notable successes interspersed between inconsistent poor results and that has been a constant throughout his coaching career - Wellington, Maori All Blacks, Highlanders, Japan. His record is good on the surface level however upon closer examination it's not nearly as impressive as people make it to be, he's almost developed a bit of a mythical status where people have extremely selective memories, his reputation isn't affected by performances and poor results simply equates to good international experience.
Who is claiming that he is the better coach?
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@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
let me translate
"Scott Robertson is the only choice no matter what criteria you choose and anyone who disagrees with me is incompetent"
the actual words don't matter.
Had the Fernies happened this was the easiest Broken Record winner in the history of the award
I'd like for those claiming Joseph is the better coach to at least attempt to back it up with some evidence - they can't.
Joseph has had a couple of notable successes interspersed between inconsistent poor results and that has been a constant throughout his coaching career - Wellington, Maori All Blacks, Highlanders, Japan. His record is good on the surface level however upon closer examination it's not nearly as impressive as people make it to be, he's almost developed a bit of a mythical status where people have extremely selective memories, his reputation isn't affected by performances and poor results simply equates to good international experience.
Who is claiming that he is the better coach?
i refer you to my earlier translation. the actual words mean nothing
if old mate @george33 has some sort of secret sauce i reckon this joint is going to melt down and i am here for it.
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still cant fathom how McLeod attract so little of the shade (in the media circus or in the circles that seem to matter) given our less than ideal defence over the years.
I mean, if our defence had been better, Fosters record would look better...
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@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
let me translate
"Scott Robertson is the only choice no matter what criteria you choose and anyone who disagrees with me is incompetent"
the actual words don't matter.
Had the Fernies happened this was the easiest Broken Record winner in the history of the award
I'd like for those claiming Joseph is the better coach to at least attempt to back it up with some evidence - they can't.
Joseph has had a couple of notable successes interspersed between inconsistent poor results and that has been a constant throughout his coaching career - Wellington, Maori All Blacks, Highlanders, Japan. His record is good on the surface level however upon closer examination it's not nearly as impressive as people make it to be, he's almost developed a bit of a mythical status where people have extremely selective memories, his reputation isn't affected by performances and poor results simply equates to good international experience.
Who is claiming that he is the better coach?
was just about to ask the same thing, the most ive seen is acknowledgement that he might also be in the running...one of the most JJ supportive comments being something like "i wouldn't mind if he got it"...a long way from anyone saying he was a significantly better coach
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If it is true Schmidt has been informed 2 weeks ago and a Ferner knows, everyone will know in the Rugby world.
No one else will apply if it is a done deal.
Why would Razor and JJ apply they would have heard the same rumour.
Yet Mark Robinson has been overseas talking to Joseph and Brown so I understand. -
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Schmidt being told 2 weeks ago he was the next Blues coach makes more sense - given whatever happens Leon is gone.
Yeah that makes a lot more sense.
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@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
And i will laugh my ass off if Joseph gets the job and everyone expresses how happy they are because the Razor fanboys won't actually be happy, and on top of that i distinctly remember threads on here about people want Joseph fired from every gig in NZ he's had over the years.
That's because he was never a resounding success as a coach, it wasn't until Tony Brown joined him in 2014 that he started to get good results, the seasons before Joseph's Highlanders had finished 14th/15, 9th, 11th.
Tony Brown is the most astute rugby mind NZ's produced since Wayne Smith & I credit the Highlander's 2015 title and 2019 WC upsets to him more than Joseph.
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Schmidt being told 2 weeks ago he was the next Blues coach makes more sense - given whatever happens Leon is gone.
take him in a heartbeat!
The new board has empowered Leon and others to actually make the Blues job worth having - it is no longer the dumpster fire of an organisation it was. 15 on the bounce last year, generating All Blacks again ... all we need to do is play the Blue Jesus Zarn and we're good to go.
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More bullshit rumours to keep the thread on life support.
Facts: NZR were going through an internal review to decide how and when the next coach would be chosen. NZR have decided how and when. We have been told the when but they have also said the process is starting. There's no done deal.
My guess: they are now sounding out shortlisted candidates in detail and letting them know what they would expect to have presented at an interview
Sounds good to me. Let's not blindside candidates or set traps. Allow them to put their best foot forward -
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
And i will laugh my ass off if Joseph gets the job and everyone expresses how happy they are because the Razor fanboys won't actually be happy, and on top of that i distinctly remember threads on here about people want Joseph fired from every gig in NZ he's had over the years.
That's because he was never a resounding success as a coach, it wasn't until Tony Brown joined him in 2014 that he started to get results, the season before he led the Highlanders to 14th/15, 9th, 10th.
Brown is one of the most astute rugby minds NZ has ever seen & I credit the Highlanders 2015 title and 2019 WC upsets to him more than Joseph.
thats just a really narrow view...purely looking at league position, most people, i believe, would acknowledge huge strides the highlanders made under JJ as soon as he joined, started building a culture, identified young guys like smith and sopoaga and brought them south, developed a game plan on the back of counter rucking and completing at the breakdown (something very much out of favour at the time)
I think even he has acknowledged he fell to temptation and tried to "buy" the final 20% he needed to win in 2013 with woodcock and nonu....but learnt and actually did it two years later
none of that is saying razor isn;t better....but the case for JJ isn't an invalid one
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@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
More bullshit rumours to keep the thread on life support.
Facts: NZR were going through an internal review to decide how and when the next coach would be chosen. NZR have decided how and when. We have been told the when but they have also said the process is starting. There's no done deal.
My guess: they are now sounding out shortlisted candidates in detail and letting them know what they would expect to have presented at an interview
Sounds good to me. Let's not blindside candidates or set traps. Allow them to put their best foot forwardThat sounds about right to me I can't see a done deal here either.
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Rugby Database: Scott Robertson Coching Profile & Stats
