Foster, Robertson etc
-
Just throwing a scenario out there.
NZR succumb to public and media pressure and announce Razor as coach after the RWC.
Media then turn to hounding Razor for decisions on assistants, saying that Franchises have the right to know (as do the likes of the current assistants)
Jamie Joseph chips in and says there was no interview process and that he was waiting until after the RWC with Japan to discuss as no one had approached him.
Razor's methods take time to embed in an international environment and we have a rough season.
Press and public ask why he was appointed without a full application process. -
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Just throwing a scenario out there.
NZR succumb to public and media pressure and announce Razor as coach after the RWC.
Media then turn to hounding Razor for decisions on assistants, saying that Franchises have the right to know (as do the likes of the current assistants)
Jamie Joseph chips in and says there was no interview process and that he was waiting until after the RWC with Japan to discuss as no one had approached him.
Razor's methods take time to embed in an international environment and we have a rough season.
Press and public ask why he was appointed without a full application process.There's a funnier one. Razor gets appointed next week and the Crusaders have their worst season since 1997, don't make the finals.
Fans ask, did we get the secret of the Crusaders success with Ryan?
-
@Kirwan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Fans ask, did we get the secret of the Crusaders success with Ryan?
Which won't be a problem if Ryan remains with the ABS, surely?
-
@Chester-Draws said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kirwan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Fans ask, did we get the secret of the Crusaders success with Ryan?
Which won't be a problem if Ryan remains with the ABS, surely?
Will be if Razor s still pissed off with him. (one of the many rumours around)
-
@Chester-Draws said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kirwan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Fans ask, did we get the secret of the Crusaders success with Ryan?
Which won't be a problem if Ryan remains with the ABS, surely?
I guess it would leave Razor plenty of time of plan his dance number.
-
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Razor's methods take time to embed in an international environment
Well we waited 3 years for Foster's methods to 'embed' and it rather curiously coincided with Schmidt and Ryan taking over in running the team's training sessions during the week.
-
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Will be if Razor s still pissed off with him. (one of the many rumours around)
Given the accuracy of most recent rumours, I'll go with cold hard facts.
Ryan worked with Robertson for nearly 10 years. If they were going to break up, it would be after he showed how good he really is? That seems unlikely.
-
Just an interesting point for those that think the messiah will fix everything with a wave of his hand
Quote from Razor after the Chiefs game...
"We pride ourselves on our attitude, and our effort. If you look at the positions the defence in, to defend for long periods at a time; the attack didn't allow the defence to be in a good position to start with. And our kicking game compromised us.''
Same player that compromises the ABs with his kicking game and a quote that I could probably find an almost exact copy of from Foster.
-
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Just an interesting point for those that think the messiah will fix everything with a wave of his hand
Quote from Razor after the Chiefs game...
"We pride ourselves on our attitude, and our effort. If you look at the positions the defence in, to defend for long periods at a time; the attack didn't allow the defence to be in a good position to start with. And our kicking game compromised us.''
Same player that compromises the ABs with his kicking game and a quote that I could probably find an almost exact copy of from Foster.
That quote was from Scott Hanson not Razor.
Hansen said the poor defensive statistics weren't a reflection on the team having a poor attitude, or not being focused.
"We pride ourselves on our attitude, and our effort. If you look at the positions the defence in, to defend for long periods at a time; the attack didn't allow the defence to be in a good position to start with. And our kicking game compromised us.''
-
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Just an interesting point for those that think the messiah will fix everything with a wave of his hand
Quote from Razor after the Chiefs game...
"We pride ourselves on our attitude, and our effort. If you look at the positions the defence in, to defend for long periods at a time; the attack didn't allow the defence to be in a good position to start with. And our kicking game compromised us.''
Same player that compromises the ABs with his kicking game and a quote that I could probably find an almost exact copy of from Foster.
That quote was from Scott Hanson not Razor.
Was it? Point still stands. Razor as coach doesn’t mean that Mounga becomes a good tactical kicker or that effort on defense equates to effective defence that isn’t manipulated by an opponent with a good plan.
-
@Crucial You are trying too hard.
-
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Just an interesting point for those that think the messiah will fix everything with a wave of his hand
Quote from Razor after the Chiefs game...
"We pride ourselves on our attitude, and our effort. If you look at the positions the defence in, to defend for long periods at a time; the attack didn't allow the defence to be in a good position to start with. And our kicking game compromised us.''
Same player that compromises the ABs with his kicking game and a quote that I could probably find an almost exact copy of from Foster.
That quote was from Scott Hanson not Razor.
Was it? Point still stands. Razor as coach doesn’t mean that Mounga becomes a good tactical kicker or that effort on defense equates to effective defence that isn’t manipulated by an opponent with a good plan.
You quoted Razor as saying it and said you could find a quote Foster saying the same thing.
Scott Hansen actually sets the backs tactical plan not Razor. -
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial You are trying too hard.
Not at all. It was easy.
In Super you get the luxury of brushing off a dud performance by saying 'we were out of balance' wait and see who wins the comp.
Same thing doesn't apply at test level as we have seen.
More to the point (and this isn't a crack at Razor or an excuse for Foster) this is the same players with the same failings. When it happens the coach (whoever it is) can only do so much.
-
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Just an interesting point for those that think the messiah will fix everything with a wave of his hand
Quote from Razor after the Chiefs game...
"We pride ourselves on our attitude, and our effort. If you look at the positions the defence in, to defend for long periods at a time; the attack didn't allow the defence to be in a good position to start with. And our kicking game compromised us.''
Same player that compromises the ABs with his kicking game and a quote that I could probably find an almost exact copy of from Foster.
That quote was from Scott Hanson not Razor.
Was it? Point still stands. Razor as coach doesn’t mean that Mounga becomes a good tactical kicker or that effort on defense equates to effective defence that isn’t manipulated by an opponent with a good plan.
You quoted Razor as saying it and said you could find a quote Foster saying the same thing.
Scott Hansen actually sets the backs tactical plan not Razor.Ineffectiveness and tactic setting are different things.
Yes, I checked the article and the quote was from Hansen
If Razor is going to get the bouquets for his results then he also gets tainted by the brickbats.
But again, my point isnt targetting Razor or excusing Foster. It is pointing out that the same problems exist from the same players and can derail team performance.
I'm not going to search through every Foster post match quote. Just fairly sure that I would find something similar if I did. -
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If Razor is going to get the bouquets for his results then he also gets tainted by the brickbats.
I just want the best possible coach available to coach the ABs. Who here thinks it is Ian Foster? If there is a better coach available than Razor choose that person. But it isn't clear to me yet. The contenders look good, Razor could be very good. Farrell could be better than Razor but he isn't available.
-
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Just an interesting point for those that think the messiah will fix everything with a wave of his hand
Quote from Razor after the Chiefs game...
"We pride ourselves on our attitude, and our effort. If you look at the positions the defence in, to defend for long periods at a time; the attack didn't allow the defence to be in a good position to start with. And our kicking game compromised us.''
Same player that compromises the ABs with his kicking game and a quote that I could probably find an almost exact copy of from Foster.
That quote was from Scott Hanson not Razor.
Was it? Point still stands. Razor as coach doesn’t mean that Mounga becomes a good tactical kicker or that effort on defense equates to effective defence that isn’t manipulated by an opponent with a good plan.
You quoted Razor as saying it and said you could find a quote Foster saying the same thing.
Scott Hansen actually sets the backs tactical plan not Razor.Ineffectiveness and tactic setting are different things.
Yes, I checked the article and the quote was from Hansen
If Razor is going to get the bouquets for his results then he also gets tainted by the brickbats.
But again, my point isnt targetting Razor or excusing Foster. It is pointing out that the same problems exist from the same players and can derail team performance.
I'm not going to search through every Foster post match quote. Just fairly sure that I would find something similar if I did.Kicking was poor this game from the Crusaders.
But they have won 6 titles in a row the tactical kicking apart from this game must have been good enough to win those championships as it has a big impact on winning games. -
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If Razor is going to get the bouquets for his results then he also gets tainted by the brickbats.
I just want the best possible coach available to coach the ABs. Who here thinks it is Ian Foster? If there is a better coach available than Razor choose that person. But it isn't clear to me yet. The contenders look good, Razor could be very good. Farrell could be better than Razor but he isn't available.
I know what you want. It has only been repeated over and over. I'm not criticising your opinion at all, just pointing out some realities that any coach has to deal with.
This thread has simply become polarising repetition.
How about we talk about what a coach could do differently?@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Just an interesting point for those that think the messiah will fix everything with a wave of his hand
Quote from Razor after the Chiefs game...
"We pride ourselves on our attitude, and our effort. If you look at the positions the defence in, to defend for long periods at a time; the attack didn't allow the defence to be in a good position to start with. And our kicking game compromised us.''
Same player that compromises the ABs with his kicking game and a quote that I could probably find an almost exact copy of from Foster.
That quote was from Scott Hanson not Razor.
Was it? Point still stands. Razor as coach doesn’t mean that Mounga becomes a good tactical kicker or that effort on defense equates to effective defence that isn’t manipulated by an opponent with a good plan.
You quoted Razor as saying it and said you could find a quote Foster saying the same thing.
Scott Hansen actually sets the backs tactical plan not Razor.Ineffectiveness and tactic setting are different things.
Yes, I checked the article and the quote was from Hansen
If Razor is going to get the bouquets for his results then he also gets tainted by the brickbats.
But again, my point isnt targetting Razor or excusing Foster. It is pointing out that the same problems exist from the same players and can derail team performance.
I'm not going to search through every Foster post match quote. Just fairly sure that I would find something similar if I did.Kicking was poor this game from the Crusaders.
But they have won 6 titles in a row the tactical kicking apart from this game must have been good enough to win those championships as it has a big impact on winning games.Hence my point that Super Rugby and Test Rugby are a different beast for a coach. Gradual improvement in a competition is acceptable when you emerge victorious. The appetite for any poor performance at test level is much different.
You are proving that point by shrugging of a poor performance for the Crusaders when a similar showing by the ABs would not get the same attitude.I totally get that maybe Razor would do a better job than Foster. I am pointing out that it wont be the massive turnaround some think it will.
-
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If Razor is going to get the bouquets for his results then he also gets tainted by the brickbats.
I just want the best possible coach available to coach the ABs. Who here thinks it is Ian Foster? If there is a better coach available than Razor choose that person. But it isn't clear to me yet. The contenders look good, Razor could be very good. Farrell could be better than Razor but he isn't available.
I know what you want. It has only been repeated over and over. I'm not criticising your opinion at all, just pointing out some realities that any coach has to deal with.
This thread has simply become polarising repetition.
How about we talk about what a coach could do differently?@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Just an interesting point for those that think the messiah will fix everything with a wave of his hand
Quote from Razor after the Chiefs game...
"We pride ourselves on our attitude, and our effort. If you look at the positions the defence in, to defend for long periods at a time; the attack didn't allow the defence to be in a good position to start with. And our kicking game compromised us.''
Same player that compromises the ABs with his kicking game and a quote that I could probably find an almost exact copy of from Foster.
That quote was from Scott Hanson not Razor.
Was it? Point still stands. Razor as coach doesn’t mean that Mounga becomes a good tactical kicker or that effort on defense equates to effective defence that isn’t manipulated by an opponent with a good plan.
You quoted Razor as saying it and said you could find a quote Foster saying the same thing.
Scott Hansen actually sets the backs tactical plan not Razor.Ineffectiveness and tactic setting are different things.
Yes, I checked the article and the quote was from Hansen
If Razor is going to get the bouquets for his results then he also gets tainted by the brickbats.
But again, my point isnt targetting Razor or excusing Foster. It is pointing out that the same problems exist from the same players and can derail team performance.
I'm not going to search through every Foster post match quote. Just fairly sure that I would find something similar if I did.Kicking was poor this game from the Crusaders.
But they have won 6 titles in a row the tactical kicking apart from this game must have been good enough to win those championships as it has a big impact on winning games.Hence my point that Super Rugby and Test Rugby are a different beast for a coach. Gradual improvement in a competition is acceptable when you emerge victorious. The appetite for any poor performance at test level is much different.
You are proving that point by shrugging of a poor performance for the Crusaders when a similar showing by the ABs would not get the same attitude.I totally get that maybe Razor would do a better job than Foster. I am pointing out that it wont be the massive turnaround some think it will.
The massive repetition is this:
" it wont be the massive turnaround some think it will."
I don't know any poster saying that but it keeps being repeated.
So until you stop this repetition I will keep repeating my answer to you and to others. Name the posters or stop dragging out this straw man.I'd be very happy there was talk of other possible coaches, rival strategies etc., but taking boring and obvious potshots and quoting the wrong person in round 1 when the Crusaders are famously always slow starters isn't helping.
oh and Foster disproves your "Hence my point that Super Rugby and Test Rugby are a different beast for a coach." He has been mediocre at both.
So go ahead and make a constructive post in this thread. I look forward to it.
-
You cant beat a good coaching record over a decent period of time
-
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I totally get that maybe Razor would do a better job than Foster. I am pointing out that it wont be the massive turnaround some think it will.
I think you called Razor the Messiah everyone thinks he is, that is a bit of a potshot at Razor.
I for one have no idea if the AB's will get a massive turnaround under Razor or any other coach .
But it has to be better than the Foster reign which has been a massive messy shit feast from results, poor selections,sacking assistant coaches and a bleat in the media about keeping his Job under what sort of criteria as HC he is thinking he is good enough to go another 4 years.
