Foster, Robertson etc
-
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
He doesn't want them to choose now.
And gives perfectly valid reasons why be believes that.
he wants to be able to say he "has the opportunity" ...another crack--what the hell does that mean, he wants to be interviewed for the job again or he just wants it given to him?
It means the idea of a RWC-winning coach wanting another go at the job - hardly controversial, arrogant or unusual.
-
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
Foster raises some very valid points. It's up to NZR to manage the process to address those and ensure the process and transition in a way which mitigates them. Not holding my breath mind.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
Foster raises some very valid points. It's up to NZR to manage the process to address those and ensure the process and transition in a way which mitigates them. Not holding my breath mind.
I agree that they are valid points. I don’t see why we the public need him making them.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Going [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my jobAppointing the next coach, I'd say, has a lot to do with Foster's job.
Why? He's coaching the ABs until RWC2023 and he's being very clear (see quote below) his job is preparing his team for that and his job doesn't include choosing the next AB coach. Or are you arguing Foster should select the new AB coach?
Ha!
I never did. You twist and twist like a twisty thing.“Going [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my job, but it has everything to do with the whole environment and the months we are going to spend talking about who is in and who is out of the next regime. That impacts on time with which I think we have better things to do.”
If it is not his job don't talk about it.
And if Razor was in the same position as Foster and said the same things, there'd be a few on here going absolutely ballistic about how "arrogant" that would be.
If the next coach suggested it wasn't his job to select the next AB coach, why would anyone call him arrogant?
No.
I'm saying he is telling them he'd like them to choose after the cup and he'd like yet another chance if he/they win this one.I also don't see clear evidence that choosing a coach now (or even just laying out the selection process and timeframe) would ruin the AB chances for RWC success. For instance, they've won when Foster wasn't even there!
Or are you suggesting it wouldn't be arrogant for the next AB coach - e.g. Robertson - to say it's his job to appoint his successor?
Not saying that either.
I'm saying if Robertson said what Foster said there'd be posters on here calling him arrogant. -
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I never did. You twist and twist like a twisty thing.
Never said you did. I simply asked you a question to clarify your thinking around your comment that "Appointing the next coach, I'd say, has a lot to do with Foster's job."
If it is not his job don't talk about it.
He wasn't talking about the process (which he made very clear wasn't his job) - he was talking about the impact on coaching the ABs which is his job. (You argued, remember, that it has a lot to do with Foster's job)
I'm saying he is telling them he'd like them to choose after the cup and he'd like yet another chance if he/they win this one.
He isn't "telling" them to do anything - he's made it clear it's their choice. He's offering an opinion that, in his view, the downsides of choosing a new coach pre-RWC2023 outweigh the upsides. Should he have done so publicly? Dunno.
And of course he'd want another crack at the job if he won - who wouldn't?
-
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
Foster raises some very valid points. It's up to NZR to manage the process to address those and ensure the process and transition in a way which mitigates them. Not holding my breath mind.
I agree that they are valid points. I don’t see why we the public need him making them. We
I don't know who is better placed to make those points. Whether it was best done in public, I'm not so sure.
Can't say I'd blame him with all the media-puffing around Robertson & JJ going on and the way he was treated by his employers last year.
-
It's all bollocks. Robertson has the best SR coaching record by a mile and on that basis alone should be named as coach 2024. NZR know they fucked up. He should be named now
-
to me it feels like he is the one creating the 'distraction', creating an issue for his players to grab hold of.
Maybe if he told his team, win, lose or draw, I'm done post RWC (assuming this was his plan, but by the sounds of it, it isn't...) it would remove any 'distractions' but at the same time, he should have told all his main squad not to annouce thier intentions post-RWC as well, cos 'distractions'
-
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
Foster raises some very valid points. It's up to NZR to manage the process to address those and ensure the process and transition in a way which mitigates them. Not holding my breath mind.
I agree that they are valid points. I don’t see why we the public need him making them. We
There's quite obviously more at play here for Foster to speak publicly about this.
Say all you like about his coaching abilities and decisions but the man has shown over and over that he has integrity and that he holds the ABs ahead of himself. (I get that some will say that him simply thinking he should be in the job is the opposite to that).
This is washing the dirties in public and he is likely to have done so in frustration. To me it points yet again to MR as not being good at handling conflicting opinions. He has shown this over and over with the BFs, the ABs, Oz Rugby etc and provides no one (public/ media/ stakeholders) with confidence that there are clear decision making paths. -
I don't get how people can brush of the idea of 'distractions' as if it doesn't exist.
In pro sport an athlete is always looking ahead to where their bread and butter lies. They have agents that will be constantly assessing the future happenings and opportunities.
I'm going to randomly single out an example with some big assumptions. Hoskins Sotutu.
He is in Foster's plans at the moment and let's say that he has assurances that if he maintains form and develops his 'work ons' then he is in the squad. Throw a confirmed coach change in the mix and he is looking over his shoulder big time. That is a distraction. He and his agent have the risk likelihood raised to 'almost certain' and will be looking for other gigs actively.
Let them get on with it and that risk likelihood is possible/probable but the level of urgency is much lower. He will get his agent to line up possible changes awaiting an outcome but will put his own efforts into performance without 'distractions'Edit: I can also guarantee that a player like that would have to deal with comments and questions about fighting for their job. Less charitable commentators would focus on their weaknesses and claim that 'new coach' will get rid of them.
Distractions.
-
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@KiwiMurph said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Foster trying to paint what's best for himself as what is best for the ABs.
This.
Might as well have said - "Please let me keep my job."
Foster realizes his (or the ABs) performance so far hasn't been good enough. And only a RWC win will save his job. That he wants to keep
Fair enough. He understands the situation well. As far as the ABs go maybe certainty over the future head coach (whether Foster or someone else) will improve performance at the RWC
-
@BerniesCorner said in Foster, Robertson etc:
It's all bollocks. Robertson has the best SR coaching record by a mile and on that basis alone should be named as coach 2024. NZR know they fucked up. He should be named now
It's a bit late now (I wish they had done it last year when supposedly NZR planned to). Let Foster stay with his new coaching team until the RWC and then Foster goes.
Robertson deserves his chance. Even though I didn't support his appointment 4 years back. I'm interested now to see how it all turns out with such a different AB head coach. Maybe its what NZ rugby needs right now. Rugby is hardly booming in NZ. Esp below AB level
Another plus is it might allow another team to win SRP (assuming the Crusaders win again this year which they must be hot favorites to do)
-
@Winger said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@KiwiMurph said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Foster trying to paint what's best for himself as what is best for the ABs.
This.
Might as well have said - "Please let me keep my job."
Foster realizes his (or the ABs) performance so far hasn't been good enough. And only a RWC win will save his job. That he wants to keep
Fair enough. He understands the situation well. As far as the ABs go maybe certainty over the future head coach (whether Foster or someone else) will improve performance at the RWC
That is so off tangent to what he is saying.
He hasn't declared that he wants to continue in the job at all.
He hasn't even said that he wants the option of deciding later.
He is clearly saying that all this speculation, brought about by there being no clear process from NZRU holds risk of taking focus away from preparing the team to be their best.
That's his view, and the view of others who have been in that environment. It is also why NZR find themselves in this quandary. They know that it could be disruptive.It is NZRs job to find a way through this and communicate to affected parties. It is obvious that they haven't. I think Foster is doing the right thing in trying to get clarity while players are focussed on SR.
Another aspect to the question of distraction. Let's just say that Razor is appointed. Is he then under a media ban? I wouldn't want to be doing a job with someone commenting in the background on selections, tactics etc. Even talking up a player (which is a common Razor attribute in man management) may impact an existing selection.
I would doubt that anyone here would find it easy to give 100% in a job where it has been declared that you are no longer wanted. You want to go on your own terms and/or have full backing while you work. Usually in these situations the incumbent just walks as their job in untenable.
-
@Winger I said name Robertson now for 2024.
-
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
He hasn't even said that he wants the option of deciding later.
Maybe he hasn't decided yet. But isn't this saying he wants the option of deciding later
“That is our goal,” he told NZME. “We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that – bring the World Cup home – and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.” -
@BerniesCorner said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Winger I said name Robertson now for 2024.
Sorry. My mistake. Thought you were suggesting an England or Aust approach
-
It'll be a much much greater loss to NZ Rugby if Razor gets fed up and jumps ship if NZR dither around. Make a decision and move on. Do it now
-
@BerniesCorner said in Foster, Robertson etc:
It'll be a much much greater loss to NZ Rugby if Razor gets fed up and jumps ship if NZR dither around. Make a decision and move on. Do it now
I suppose it keeps rugby in the news. But I'm sick of it now. I just wish NZR would front up and announce what the appointment process is and timings etc. Esp now that SRP is about to kick off.
-
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Another aspect to the question of distraction. Let's just say that Razor is appointed. Is he then under a media ban? I wouldn't want to be doing a job with someone commenting in the background on selections, tactics etc. Even talking up a player (which is a common Razor attribute in man management) may impact an existing selection.
There'll be distractions if the NZR wait as well.
You think the media and the speculation is going to stop if the NZR say that they will announce that the coach decision will occur after the RWC?
There'll be an ongoing speculation of who is the next AB coach throughout the year and throughout the RWC.
-
@BerniesCorner said in Foster, Robertson etc:
It'll be a much much greater loss to NZ Rugby if Razor gets fed up and jumps ship if NZR dither around. Make a decision and move on. Do it now
Now talk yourself through the impacts of that happening.
Go back in time and one of the biggest gripes about Fosters appointment was that the process removed other possible candidates.
You are now asking for Razor to be appointed with no contenders or comparisons to others.
Surely the best thing is to get to a place where contending applicants can state their case and vision THEN make an appointment.
This discussion isn't just Foster v Razor. Others come into play as well.
If Razor is appointed, can Schmidt walk away early? Maybe Schmidt has an out clause and can go and coach Fiji.
The whole thing is may more complex than you make out.
