All Blacks v England
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v England:
@mariner4life I think what that England match showed was that despite being very good players, the Jordie/Ioane midfield has a long way to go in knowing how to play together. As a combination it didn’t really work. I’m not a doubter in terms of it being able to work, but there were a few concerning moments.
The last match they played together they didn’t really play as a combo either. Jordie played well because he tucked the ball under the arm and had a really attacking mindset. And there was space for him to operate in (Richie was far more assertive in that match also as opposed to England).
I hope they persist with it but it was one of a number of problems in this match.
It was mentioned how both Jodie and Ioane retired, backs to the English, on the same side of a central ruck, that created the mismatch for the first English try
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v England:
@mariner4life I think what that England match showed was that despite being very good players, the Jordie/Ioane midfield has a long way to go in knowing how to play together. As a combination it didn’t really work. I’m not a doubter in terms of it being able to work, but there were a few concerning moments.
The last match they played together they didn’t really play as a combo either. Jordie played well because he tucked the ball under the arm and had a really attacking mindset. And there was space for him to operate in (Richie was far more assertive in that match also as opposed to England).
I hope they persist with it but it was one of a number of problems in this match.
It's almost as though they should play them together more... and they should not shunt Jordie back to 15 every second game... and that playing Havili against Scotland was a complete and utter waste of fucking time... God that was a frustrating selection.
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@No-Quarter same issue that we had with Hansen
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Finally getting round to watching recording of second half, having been at game.
ABs definitely had mind off ball when they came out for second, but tackled well under pressure and Ioane try was cruel to end third quarter 8 -3 and in winning possie.
From 60 to 70 Codie, Tyrell and Ethan all off, Nugget off and Frizell on for Scooter. For England front row changed, Youngs and Slade on.
65 - 68 Ribbans, Willis and Nowell on.
BUT from 60 -70 nothing much changed. One bad throw by Sami, strong scrum and maul. But kicking becoming too long: can't chase effectively and England starting to make ground running balls back.
England got into 22 but stopped there, including one strong tackle from Nepo.
Driving play leads to penalty which BB renders unnecessary with droppie to end period 3-0.
So far AB subs haven't made much difference.
Now to watch last ten. Note ALB for Caleb and Hoskins for Paps at 73.
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Last 10.
71 Smith ghosts into huge gap as BBBR aligns wide off ruck (no one two out). Leads to BB yellow. Big tackle from Nepo grounds Stuart shoulders a foot out. No release and goes again. Clear penalty black but should have gone back for BB penalty. Lots of buggering around.
73 Long kick off and some good tackling, notably by Hoskins. England goes wide left then right. Sublime offload by Ribbans in tackle of BBBR then great work by Steward but bad miss by Rieko. Complete lack of AB defensive alignment on their left. Massive gap between ALB and Rieko on sideline. Almost no one put on deck. That said, England exploit lack of defence very well.
75 Long kick off. Hair trigger penalty against Whitelock for not rolling away. Excellent kick by Slade to touch 30 out. But England offside in our 22. Poor Richie kick to 30 out.
77 Safe to BBBR. Good maul. Raynal almost blows for collapse by England. Couple of reasonable pick n'goes. TJP chip over top.
May runs back but tackled well by Hos. BUT again AB defensive alignment non-existent on their left. Run down touchline making 20m+ but Rieko makes pathetic attempt at tackle on Slade when he ought to have used touchline to force him into touch.
England work it and Mako gets to line where Ardie on him and affects to lift ball -- looked like penalty from distance. Stuart over from five out.All too easy!
Conclusions
Criticisms of bench too harsh.
Possible Frizell not getting stuck into rucks which Scooter would have.
The issue was backs.
On defence Richie out of picture covering at back. When England ran left Jordie, ALB and Rieko were leaving the largest gap since Moses.
Gave every impression of just having no plan to deal with such situation.
If one was being charitable one could say that losing BB and reshuffling Rieko wasn't expected.
That said, I think they'd have been a lot better leaving Caleb on so less change to deal with.
Exceptional circumstances aside, NZ much the better team, and at least one of last three England tries should never have been given, so draw really a chimera.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v England:
Chess puzzle for TWM:
Black 15 binned at 71. Subs left ALB, Sotutu, Havili.
Black to substitute whom and win?
TWM fluffed with ALB for CC, and HS for DP, and game finished a tame draw with white.
What was the winning move(s) to win?
Given that neither wing was a fullback maybe a better option was DH for CC
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@canefan said in All Blacks v England:
The squad is so open right now, the 10/15 utility slot is Damian McKenzie's to take if he's good enough
I'm not sure. I had a listen to Foster's interview with Devlin and he was very effusive about what he thinks BB brings at 15 to RMs play at 10. Feels that BB doesn't get the same support when he plays 10.
If one of the two got injured I can see DMac coming back into the fold but there has been no inkling this year that they are interested apart from the AB XV gig -
@Crucial said in All Blacks v England:
@canefan said in All Blacks v England:
The squad is so open right now, the 10/15 utility slot is Damian McKenzie's to take if he's good enough
I'm not sure. I had a listen to Foster's interview with Devlin and he was very effusive about what he thinks BB brings at 15 to RMs play at 10. Feels that BB doesn't get the same support when he plays 10.
If one of the two got injured I can see DMac coming back into the fold but there has been no inkling this year that they are interested apart from the AB XV gigHe could gun for DHs spot
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This post is deleted!
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v England:
@pakman said in All Blacks v England:
Chess puzzle for TWM:
Black 15 binned at 71. Subs left ALB, Sotutu, Havili.
Black to substitute whom and win?
TWM fluffed with ALB for CC, and HS for DP, and game finished a tame draw with white.
What was the winning move(s) to win?
Given that neither wing was a fullback maybe a better option was DH for CC
The winning move for Black was to put someone to full back and take off a forward.
Obvious choices Jordie to 15 and ALB to 12, or just DH to 15.
For me at that stage in order to keep backline defence functioning the less change the better, so I'd have brought on Havili. I don't see there as being much benefit by adding to the chaos by also swapping ALB for Clarke.
Backs sorted, but a forward has to be subbed or removed. So need to play last 9 with two loosies.
But which?
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@mencey said in All Blacks v England:
@sparky said in All Blacks v England:
@LagerLout said in All Blacks v England:
You know what, I don't give a shit about the World Cup. I care that our mana is being damaged here every other test by Foster and co. Test matches are important. It was all lovely and fluffy to hear Richie talk about the team culture, but what the hell happened to the AB coach that put the fear of god into you that losing is just not acceptable. If you play badly, kiss your position goodbye. You're not AB material. This woke world of accepting failure is destroying the All Blacks. We will be just another team in less than 2 years if this crap keeps up.
You've put your finger on what I've hated about the later Hansen and Foster eras. Accepting failure. A Grizz Wylie or Laurie Mains team would have been terrified coming off the paddock after blowing a lead like that knowing the utter bollocking that was coming their way. Tomorrow morning would be tackling practice until they passed out.
To fucking wright. That gave me a laugh. I hate fucking mediocrity. The reputation of the All Blacks has taken a total beating in the last few years. At least I now live in Canada where not 2 many people gives a fuck about rugby. I would be losing my voice if I was the AB coach after that pile of shit. But Foster will just come out with his usual bull. We will lose Razor at this rate and then who will coach after next years debacle which is all I can C at this rate.
No one here knows they have a half decent womens team. If its any consolation, the ABs wont be losing to Canada any time soon. Even if they can't make the RWC.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
Well, that was one of the greatest comebacks of all time from England. Three tries in the last 10 minutes against a Tier 1 team is an incredible effort, massive kudos to them. Kicking the ball out for the draw though is something I cannot wrap my head around, they were carving us to shreds and would have got the ball over halfway pretty quickly I reckon, then it's all on for a penalty. @Catogrande as our English representative on here, I'm interested to hear your take on that - are the fans up there fine with that? I would have torn my hair out at that after such an amazing comeback.
We came out of the blocks fast in the first half and really had them under the pump. That was the best start we've made in a long time against a top side, our forwards were smacking them around and our backs looked very dangerous. That was a joy to watch. Dalton was awesome and Clarke had his best game in a long time.
Then in the second half England got an early penalty and really dominated the rest of that half. We had moments where we could have arrested momentum but some costly errors like missing touch just handed it back to them. We just can't afford mistakes like that when we are under the pump. Even more so in the final game of long hard season where we were fading.
I can't really single any one player out though. The BB droppie got us a 19 point lead with 10 to go, that should be more than enough. The BB YC was harsh as well, he got back to his feet and was competing for the ball - yeah he didn't really give the English play time to release but at the same time the defending player gets awarded the penalty more often than not there. Once it was a penalty it had to be a card though.
Most players had good moments but also made errors. Mo'unga ran with the ball well but also made costly errors. Codie was good around the park but mucked up some crucial lineouts. Rieko was a threat all game but his hands let him down a few times, and the neck roll to rub out his try wasn't smart play.
Overall though I'm happy with how the EOYT has played out. We've always struggled to win big at the end of our season, and 25-6 at 70 minutes against England in the final game is friggen awesome. We'll win from that position in a WC basically every time. We've come a long way since the Irish series where we now know 90% of what our top side is, we have some genuinely world class players in our pack and in the backline, and plenty of experience to boot. I'm excited about next year and our chances at the RWC once our top side has had more time together.
Have to agree. Looked like for me he gave a clear release. He just beat the cleaners. Also, it looked like there was a second push attempt to place the ball to score. Looked shit alround.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v England:
@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks v England:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v England:
@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks v England:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v England:
Very disappointing (more on that later) but I'd just say that the performance last night shows that we most certainly do have the cattle. What is lacking is the leadership, structure and right selections (what was even the point of having Havili there). As frustrating as that is at least we can say that there have been some vast improvements.
Oh yeah, JB at 12 🖕
Are you saying jordie is shit or good at 12?
You're new here aren't you?
Well as far as I know 🖕 mean shit so?........ and jordie is our best 12?
Long story short: I've been vocally campaigning for him being at 12 for about 5 years. The 🖕 is me woefully failing to be humble about it towards the doubters, of which there were many.
I've been beating that drum for a while this year. Some on here, now they have acknowledge JB is the 12, want him rested for the next ten tests to develop a backup and avoid injury.
