Foster, Robertson etc
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@NTA said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Rugby Boards are generally the outcome you get at any level of rugby i.e. the people who want to do a certain role will fill that role, and generally speaking that doesn't mean the administration.
Think about any local club you've been involved in at senior level - players don't lift a finger unless they're cajoled/threatened and then you have to make them feel special about it. They just want to show up and play.
Coaches are busy coaching. Team Managers are busy managing. Volunteers are there to run the BBQ or help out on the day and that's about it.
The people left behind are the ones who will end up on your Committee and might move onto the Board of your local Union if it is structured that way.
Once you get to a certain level after that - particularly where money is involved, you end up with 4 general types of people - using examples from the NZR Board @booboo posted above:
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Specialists whose roles are advantageous to have inside the tent e.g. Bailey Mackey who has experience in Broadcast; Bart Campbell with his marketing experience.
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Notable figures who give the Board political weight and know how to deal with the political landscape e.g. Rt Hon Dame Patsy Reddy the former GG
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People from the constituency who might have one eye on their own province/club as they govern for all
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Others who I call counterweights to ensure the whole thing doesn't go completely off the rails. These should be "rugby people"
There is a political layer to this once serious money gets seriously involved, and that's where any disconnect has its origins.
This can take the form of the professional game losing sight of the base, but also the team inside the tent failing to grasp the true scale of issues, because the layer around them is filtering out the worst of the messaging.
Example: Foster throwing an assistant under the bus and retaining his spot rather than a complete revamp of the coaching team.
Good post nailed most commitees.
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Quite a lot of unfair bs in the postings today in my view. A lot of people go on committees to give back to the game they love - after their playing days are over. There are also those that want a career in governance - and get experience via sports they have a passion for. They are there to do a job to the best of their ability - and don't usually make it without ability.
Good board members will not discuss the debates/arguments/choices unless it is in the best interest of everyone. Same with any good CEO who is working with a Board. They all have obligations in respect to risk management. And they have some very tough choices in what they do or do not say. There are lots of experienced and capable staff at NZRU too. Do you really imagine that none of them are consulted and it is all the fault of the CEO, Head Coach or the Board?
The folk at NZRU have a hell of a job to do in my view, and do it pretty well. You can't please everyone. And in the sport I have been most involved in, disgruntled coaches are the hardest to please - all thinking the wrong people are chosen and they would do better. I have seen numerous rumours and negative gossip that put a slant on what really happened - either for personal gain - or to knock others down out of spite or jealousy.
I don't agree with some of the decisions made, but it would be really interesting to be a fly on the wall when the decisions are being debated and to know what factors were weighed up before the decisions. Hopefully it stays inside the room...
The numerous 'insider rumours' of what was decided or was going to happen, would appear to have come from people embellishing the snippets they knew first hand - and possibly using them for their own agendas. It is easy enough to work out where most come from too.
That said, everyone is entitled to post their opinion, especially here. My opinion is that people easily disrespect the intentions and abilities of those who have to make the tough decisions - if they go against their wishes - and maybe need to think harder about the circumstances surrounding the decisions. It is the same in practically every sport I expect. -
@ARHS Nail on head exactly!!
I will add anyone who wants change has to do something instead of whinging on the net.
A: get on your local rugby/soccer.cricket etc club board.
B : Get the club to make presentations to board above to get changes made you require and they take it higher.
If you can't be arsed doing A, you need to think on it and see if you care enough, and if B can't be done it probably means you are in minority anyway?
But as you say, there is always the net to say how you could or would do it better.
And mo reason you can't give opinion, just namecalling and etc aren't really positive.
Lol maybe I just getting to old to read all the anti stuff and like seeing positives in life. -
@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@ARHS Nail on head exactly!!
I will add anyone who wants change has to do something instead of whinging on the net.
A: get on your local rugby/soccer.cricket etc club board.
B : Get the club to make presentations to board above to get changes made you require and they take it higher.
If you can't be arsed doing A, you need to think on it and see if you care enough, and if B can't be done it probably means you are in minority anyway?
But as you say, there is always the net to say how you could or would do it better.
And mo reason you can't give opinion, just namecalling and etc aren't really positive.
Lol maybe I just getting to old to read all the anti stuff and like seeing positives in life.Maybe people have all ready done all of the above and more and are sick of seeing the fuck ups.
You are judging people without knowing them doing exactly what you are moaning about.Negative stuff is because people care and people stuff up it’s life.
Everyone can not live life wearing rose tinted glasses.Nothing gets fixed or challenged so nothing gets better. -
@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I will add anyone who wants change has to do something instead of whinging on the net.
A: get on your local rugby/soccer.cricket etc club board.
B : Get the club to make presentations to board above to get changes made you require and they take it higher.
If you can't be arsed doing A, you need to think on it and see if you care enough, and if B can't be done it probably means you are in minority anyway?Agree with all of that.
The only issue is when you're in the minority and the majority don't want to change because they fear the unknown.
I'd also add that the professional game is a completely different kettle of fish once the paymasters are no longer the constituents.
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I've sat on Boards (not sports). Well-intentioned but inexperienced members are a nightmare; especially if they are 'self-made men' and can't understand why they can't just get on and do things like they do in their own businesses.
An effective Chair who can work with and control the CEO is key IMO.
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@ARHS Nail on head exactly!!
I will add anyone who wants change has to do something instead of whinging on the net.
A: get on your local rugby/soccer.cricket etc club board.
B : Get the club to make presentations to board above to get changes made you require and they take it higher.
If you can't be arsed doing A, you need to think on it and see if you care enough, and if B can't be done it probably means you are in minority anyway?
But as you say, there is always the net to say how you could or would do it better.
And mo reason you can't give opinion, just namecalling and etc aren't really positive.
Lol maybe I just getting to old to read all the anti stuff and like seeing positives in life.Maybe people have all ready done all of the above and more and are sick of seeing the fuck ups.
You are judging people without knowing them doing exactly what you are moaning about.Negative stuff is because people care and people stuff up it’s life.
Everyone can not live life wearing rose tinted glasses.Nothing gets fixed or challenged so nothing gets better.Yep Chris , I guess people have done the above, and proves my point, a lot more of the people who actually are involved, do the work etc know what skills they want and need running the organisation. As I keep saying there seem to be a few who think NZR's main job is to run the ABs etc. I got news for them, it's to run the game for all from 5yo Johnny/Jenny to old Trev playing his last year or two in presidents game and everyone in between.
I believe the game is run badly when I can't go and stand on sidelines, watch and enjoy it with other likeminded people, and then have perhaps a drink after and a natter about the game etc. You know I do this almost every week in the season, and all the people I spend time with there , most have opinions of what they want done better, but none that I can recall are as bitter as the ones who seem to get carried away on the net. -
@dogmeat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I've sat on Boards (not sports). Well-intentioned but inexperienced members are a nightmare; especially if they are 'self-made men' and can't understand why they can't just get on and do things like they do in their own businesses.
An effective Chair who can work with and control the CEO is key IMO.
Actually dog one of best club boards, funnily enough was almost opposite, club I was on in Aus , at one stage we had a a committee made up almost entirely of sucessful businessmen, Lawyer(Chair) Accontants, owner of finance company, and a few plebs like me (lol), and they were very effective, but mainly because they ran the club and left the actual rugby part to the people running the teams (we had a senior and junior boards operating below them. It was only a small club, but it was while that committee running the club incredibly well run I thought, including sorting new clubrooms, grounds etc . I think in that case it was a case of being like their businesses, and everyone was targeted at what they were good at. Actually ended up pretty great mates of them all, but still think it was best committee of any club or even provincial board I have been on. The only unfortunate thing was after they had done their stint, the ones who came through and took over were not anywhere near as efficient and club really went hugely backwards for a few years, think it's just starting to rebuild now.
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@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
As I keep saying there seem to be a few who think NZR's main job is to run the ABs etc. I got news for them, it's to run the game for all from 5yo Johnny/Jenny to old Trev playing his last year or two in presidents game and everyone in between.
Problem is, the ABs are the money maker...so they are the key to everything below, so if NZR's handle on the ABs aint where it should be, it has a knock effect down the line....I think this year may be more of an anomoly in that the ABs have been average, but the Black Ferns have flown the flag, and possibly helped keep interest levels up despite the usual shop window display not being up to standard.
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@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@ARHS Nail on head exactly!!
I will add anyone who wants change has to do something instead of whinging on the net.
A: get on your local rugby/soccer.cricket etc club board.
B : Get the club to make presentations to board above to get changes made you require and they take it higher.
If you can't be arsed doing A, you need to think on it and see if you care enough, and if B can't be done it probably means you are in minority anyway?
But as you say, there is always the net to say how you could or would do it better.
And mo reason you can't give opinion, just namecalling and etc aren't really positive.
Lol maybe I just getting to old to read all the anti stuff and like seeing positives in life.Maybe people have all ready done all of the above and more and are sick of seeing the fuck ups.
You are judging people without knowing them doing exactly what you are moaning about.Negative stuff is because people care and people stuff up it’s life.
Everyone can not live life wearing rose tinted glasses.Nothing gets fixed or challenged so nothing gets better.Yep Chris , I guess people have done the above, and proves my point, a lot more of the people who actually are involved, do the work etc know what skills they want and need running the organisation. As I keep saying there seem to be a few who think NZR's main job is to run the ABs etc. I got news for them, it's to run the game for all from 5yo Johnny/Jenny to old Trev playing his last year or two in presidents game and everyone in between.
I believe the game is run badly when I can't go and stand on sidelines, watch and enjoy it with other likeminded people, and then have perhaps a drink after and a natter about the game etc. You know I do this almost every week in the season, and all the people I spend time with there , most have opinions of what they want done better, but none that I can recall are as bitter as the ones who seem to get carried away on the net.Well if you are calling me bitter then you are assuming shit again.
Concerned, frustrated,Wanting our game to be better right down to the grass roots.
That is what I call it. -
Departing Gatland backs Razor as All Blacks coach
Warren Gatland has returned for a second stint as coach of Wales.
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@canefan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Interesting that Gatland in the NZ Herald recommends Razor for ABs coach when they are both tagged to the England job, maybe Gatland is a smart cookie after all... edit: Oh, Gatland signed to Wales so drops out of England reckoning? Could still be a smart 6N tactic...
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While NZR certainly has oversight of the community game, my guess is that they'd have a more direct impact on the All Blacks and Black Ferns, and the clubs and the provincial unions would have a much greater direct impact on running Saturdays for the kids and the Pressies & co.
It's a long time since I was involved with a rugby club, but that would mirror my experience of a committee that I am on. The national (and international) sporting body does set the overall framework. But whether the Associations and Clubs below them all follow their new online scoring systems (etc) for the amateur game or Saturday morning kids experience is sometimes another matter
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@Donsteppa said in Foster, Robertson etc:
While NZR certainly has oversight of the community game, my guess is that they'd have a more direct impact on the All Blacks and Black Ferns, and the clubs and the provincial unions would have a much greater direct impact on running Saturdays for the kids and the Pressies & co.
It's a long time since I was involved with a rugby club, but that would mirror my experience of a committee that I am on. The national (and international) sporting body does set the overall framework. But whether the Associations and Clubs below them all follow their new online scoring systems (etc) for the amateur game or Saturday morning kids experience is sometimes another matter
You are 100% correct The National body have Little to do with the actual running of Rugby below NPC level.
The clubs and Provincial Unions administrate below.The NZR board run the money making identities at the top and put their main focus into that.
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 I think if he said we have started the process, would be more than sufficient, instead, he danced around like a politician.
It aint like Fozzie doesnt know he has to reapply, win or not, so putting the feelers out signalling those who think they are a shot, thier time is coming, it certainly aint gonna hurt anyones feelings...who knows, Fozzie may have already indicated he wont even reapply...
Instead, like last time, most of the applicants felt it was a closed shop and done deal (whether it was or not is irrelevant if several potential candidates think it is)
Like he said himself, other unions are already making moves, instead he's focussed on other stuff, when in reality, this next 12 months is quite important for NZR given the relative cluster fuck the last 18 months has been on the coaching front, he needs to get this right.
Yep totally agree just more incompetence,Puss footing around and backing themselves into another corner post WC.
They are one very incompetent board that lot.The majority of the board have no rugby nous or background.This post prompted me to look at the Board makeup and I don't think this is true at all. There's three former province Chairs including from the two most recently successful provinces (hmmm, I see the problem, too many Crusaders region reps
) and the others all have decent CVs with pretty long term involvement in rugby.Would you like to name the board with their rugby nous next to their names
Sorry I should have added High Performance experience.Would you like to name them and tell me why you don't think have rugby nous?
Most of them because they have proved it.
One I have had many a dealings with at lower levels and he has no idea.You not liking one of them because you know him does not prove that the Board have no rugby nous or background as you claimed. Neither does claiming they've proved it.
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@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 I think if he said we have started the process, would be more than sufficient, instead, he danced around like a politician.
It aint like Fozzie doesnt know he has to reapply, win or not, so putting the feelers out signalling those who think they are a shot, thier time is coming, it certainly aint gonna hurt anyones feelings...who knows, Fozzie may have already indicated he wont even reapply...
Instead, like last time, most of the applicants felt it was a closed shop and done deal (whether it was or not is irrelevant if several potential candidates think it is)
Like he said himself, other unions are already making moves, instead he's focussed on other stuff, when in reality, this next 12 months is quite important for NZR given the relative cluster fuck the last 18 months has been on the coaching front, he needs to get this right.
Yep totally agree just more incompetence,Puss footing around and backing themselves into another corner post WC.
They are one very incompetent board that lot.The majority of the board have no rugby nous or background.This post prompted me to look at the Board makeup and I don't think this is true at all. There's three former province Chairs including from the two most recently successful provinces (hmmm, I see the problem, too many Crusaders region reps
) and the others all have decent CVs with pretty long term involvement in rugby.Would you like to name the board with their rugby nous next to their names
Sorry I should have added High Performance experience.Would you like to name them and tell me why you don't think have rugby nous?
Most of them because they have proved it.
One I have had many a dealings with at lower levels and he has no idea.You not liking one of them because you know him does not prove that the Board have no rugby nous or background as you claimed. Neither does claiming they've proved it.
It points to a problem on the board doesn't it.
They have proved it over a number of instances all posted about on here by many people as you well know. -
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 I think if he said we have started the process, would be more than sufficient, instead, he danced around like a politician.
It aint like Fozzie doesnt know he has to reapply, win or not, so putting the feelers out signalling those who think they are a shot, thier time is coming, it certainly aint gonna hurt anyones feelings...who knows, Fozzie may have already indicated he wont even reapply...
Instead, like last time, most of the applicants felt it was a closed shop and done deal (whether it was or not is irrelevant if several potential candidates think it is)
Like he said himself, other unions are already making moves, instead he's focussed on other stuff, when in reality, this next 12 months is quite important for NZR given the relative cluster fuck the last 18 months has been on the coaching front, he needs to get this right.
Yep totally agree just more incompetence,Puss footing around and backing themselves into another corner post WC.
They are one very incompetent board that lot.The majority of the board have no rugby nous or background.This post prompted me to look at the Board makeup and I don't think this is true at all. There's three former province Chairs including from the two most recently successful provinces (hmmm, I see the problem, too many Crusaders region reps
) and the others all have decent CVs with pretty long term involvement in rugby.Would you like to name the board with their rugby nous next to their names
Sorry I should have added High Performance experience.Would you like to name them and tell me why you don't think have rugby nous?
Most of them because they have proved it.
One I have had many a dealings with at lower levels and he has no idea.You not liking one of them because you know him does not prove that the Board have no rugby nous or background as you claimed. Neither does claiming they've proved it.
It points to a problem on the board doesn't it.
They have proved it over a number of instances all posted about on here by many people as you well know.The Board's performance doesn't matter in a discussion whether they have rugby nous or background (which is the only comment I have been discussing with you on this thread). I've worked with highly experienced and qualified Boards who have done poor jobs and less experienced and qualified ones who have done great jobs.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
As I keep saying there seem to be a few who think NZR's main job is to run the ABs etc. I got news for them, it's to run the game for all from 5yo Johnny/Jenny to old Trev playing his last year or two in presidents game and everyone in between.
Problem is, the ABs are the money maker...so they are the key to everything below, so if NZR's handle on the ABs aint where it should be, it has a knock effect down the line....I think this year may be more of an anomoly in that the ABs have been average, but the Black Ferns have flown the flag, and possibly helped keep interest levels up despite the usual shop window display not being up to standard.
Agree about money being key being the key (and AB brand being the driver) etc,, but I do think NZR is one of the most solvent rugby unions in the world , so someone doing something right
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