All Black midfield options
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@Chris-B said in All Black midfield options:
@mariner4life No. The argument is that we've won quite a bit more against big teams than we've lost with Havili in the team.
He's no Ma'a Nonu, but he's decent enough.
I don't know if we can afford to play him next to Mo'unga. Our inside channel becomes a real liability on defense. He also can't be paired with ALB as we saw in the weekend, and he doesn't attract any defense in close to free up space for his outsides. I think he's a decent squaddie but if we're down to him starting a big test we're in a bit of trouble.
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@voodoo I think he got picked for the ABs after the Super season, but still had knee problems that eventually required surgery. As far as I know, he should be back for next year.
His original injury was pretty bad though.
IMO Jack's a bit lacking in pace at centre and maybe a bit short on kicking skills at 12, but serviceable enough in both positions. He's a very good reader on defense and distributes well. Could still probably be used in either position.
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@voodoo said in All Black midfield options:
What's the word on Goodhue coming back? I was never sold on him at 12, but is there a discussion if he's fit, that he could oust ALB for bench covering 12/13? I think he's definitely a better 13 than ALB, and maybe more of a like-for-like swap with Jordie if he gets injured. Combo is a bit slow on gas if we lose Rieko, but ALB is no speed demon either.
Was. Injuries. And ALB was better than he is now at 13 before his layoff so there is that risk as well.
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@No-Quarter said in All Black midfield options:
@Chris-B said in All Black midfield options:
@mariner4life No. The argument is that we've won quite a bit more against big teams than we've lost with Havili in the team.
He's no Ma'a Nonu, but he's decent enough.
I don't know if we can afford to play him next to Mo'unga. Our inside channel becomes a real liability on defense. He also can't be paired with ALB as we saw in the weekend, and he doesn't attract any defense in close to free up space for his outsides. I think he's a decent squaddie but if we're down to him starting a big test we're in a bit of trouble.
Yeah - I've got significant doubts that Dave and Anton are incisive enough. Dave and Rieko work OK. Dave is a bit Aaron Mauger, which will "attract attention".
I'd be very happy to have Jordie at 12 if I didn't also want him at 15. I'm probably less convinced about Beaudy there than some, these days
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@nostrildamus said in All Black midfield options:
@voodoo said in All Black midfield options:
What's the word on Goodhue coming back? I was never sold on him at 12, but is there a discussion if he's fit, that he could oust ALB for bench covering 12/13? I think he's definitely a better 13 than ALB, and maybe more of a like-for-like swap with Jordie if he gets injured. Combo is a bit slow on gas if we lose Rieko, but ALB is no speed demon either.
Was. Injuries. And ALB was better than he is now at 13 before his layoff so there is that risk as well.
Yeah, I meant near-peak Jack vs back-to-full-fitness ALB
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@Chris-B said in All Black midfield options:
@No-Quarter said in All Black midfield options:
@Chris-B said in All Black midfield options:
@mariner4life No. The argument is that we've won quite a bit more against big teams than we've lost with Havili in the team.
He's no Ma'a Nonu, but he's decent enough.
I don't know if we can afford to play him next to Mo'unga. Our inside channel becomes a real liability on defense. He also can't be paired with ALB as we saw in the weekend, and he doesn't attract any defense in close to free up space for his outsides. I think he's a decent squaddie but if we're down to him starting a big test we're in a bit of trouble.
Yeah - I've got significant doubts that Dave and Anton are incisive enough. Dave and Rieko work OK. Dave is a bit Aaron Mauger, which will "attract attention".
I'd be very happy to have Jordie at 12 if I didn't also want him at 15. I'm probably less convinced about Beaudy there than some, these days
I think Beauden has played some of his best rugby for the ABs at 15, and he'll offer a lot more than Jordie on attack from the back. Do you think your boy Will is ready for the 15 jumper yet? I am sympathetic to your views on Jordie at the back though, he'll diffuse any plans teams have to launch high balls at us to the point that they are just giving back possession. However I'm not sure we can afford to be too defensively minded this RWC - if we're gonna win it we are going to have to throw caution to the wind and try to rack up some points against the big teams, as our defense hasn't been good enough to keep them under 20 points on consistent basis.
My backline right now has to be:
9. Smith
10. Mo'unga
11. Clarke
12. Jordie
13. Rieko
14. Jordan
15. BeaudenYou could slot Jordan at 15 and Reece on the right wing and we don't lose much. But to me that gives us the best balance of play makers and players that can genuinely beat their man and score points from almost anywhere. You put those guys behind our improved forward performances of late and we're in with a very good shout.
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@voodoo said in All Black midfield options:
What's the word on Goodhue coming back? I was never sold on him at 12, but is there a discussion if he's fit, that he could oust ALB for bench covering 12/13? I think he's definitely a better 13 than ALB, and maybe more of a like-for-like swap with Jordie if he gets injured. Combo is a bit slow on gas if we lose Rieko, but ALB is no speed demon either.
Word out of the Crusaders he is back for the start of SR along with Grace and Blackadder.
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@No-Quarter I've written several times that I think Will should stay at 14 until after this coming RWC.
May not happen if Jordie is permanently shifted to 12.
I think our backs are in more of a state of flux than they we're a couple of months ago - but, that could well be a good thing.
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@Chris-B said in All Black midfield options:
@No-Quarter I've written several times that I think Will should stay at 14 until after this coming RWC.
May not happen if Jordie is permanently shifted to 12.
I think our backs are in more of a state of flux than they we're a couple of months ago - but, that could well be a good thing.
I don't think we are.
We have decided our best 10 in RM. We have locked in our best midfield in JB/RI. And for better or worse we have CC and BB at 11/14, with that not likely to change unless someone beats the door down next year at either spot. If they do, CC might fall out and BB might shift to being a reserve, but what a great reserve to have! 14 is still up for grabs, but likely WJ if fit, with a very able Reece if not
Pretty settled I think!
Even the reserves with TJ (oh yeah), ALB seem locked in.
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@voodoo said in All Black midfield options:
What's the word on Goodhue coming back? I was never sold on him at 12, but is there a discussion if he's fit, that he could oust ALB for bench covering 12/13? I think he's definitely a better 13 than ALB, and maybe more of a like-for-like swap with Jordie if he gets injured. Combo is a bit slow on gas if we lose Rieko, but ALB is no speed demon either.
Surely not 13. I'm 50 and I reckon I'd beat him in a race.
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@antipodean said in All Black midfield options:
@voodoo said in All Black midfield options:
What's the word on Goodhue coming back? I was never sold on him at 12, but is there a discussion if he's fit, that he could oust ALB for bench covering 12/13? I think he's definitely a better 13 than ALB, and maybe more of a like-for-like swap with Jordie if he gets injured. Combo is a bit slow on gas if we lose Rieko, but ALB is no speed demon either.
Surely not 13. I'm 50 and I reckon I'd beat him in a race.
I'd pay a tenner to watch that!
Look, he's never been lightening, and I have no clue what he's like now. As I said earlier, he's only in the frame if he's close to peak, which could be a pipe dream. And even then, he and JB does not make a quick midfield.
But, he was pretty classy at setting up his outsides, and was a great defender. Would be nice to have him inside CC on defence!
Anyway, he's clearly not close to a starting spot, I was just questioning whether folk thought he could challenge ALB for that reserve spot. He's not going to provide a massive spark (is ALB?), but can he play the injury reserve role as well as him?
Guess we'll see next year.
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I’ve always thought David Havili and George Bridge would be a good combo. With Shannon Frizzell providing bench cover.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Black midfield options:
I’ve always thought David Havili and George Bridge would be a good combo. With Shannon Frizzell providing bench cover.
Too subtle.
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@voodoo said in All Black midfield options:
@antipodean said in All Black midfield options:
@voodoo said in All Black midfield options:
What's the word on Goodhue coming back? I was never sold on him at 12, but is there a discussion if he's fit, that he could oust ALB for bench covering 12/13? I think he's definitely a better 13 than ALB, and maybe more of a like-for-like swap with Jordie if he gets injured. Combo is a bit slow on gas if we lose Rieko, but ALB is no speed demon either.
Surely not 13. I'm 50 and I reckon I'd beat him in a race.
I'd pay a tenner to watch that!
I may be exaggerating for comedic effect.
He's a good player and I hope his injuries and extensive layoff don't translate into a mediocre return, but the broader problem is we seem to lack a good second option to Rieko. And an alarming lack of pace across the backline when compared to some of our best backlines in recent memory.
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@voodoo said in All Black midfield options:
@Chris-B said in All Black midfield options:
@No-Quarter I've written several times that I think Will should stay at 14 until after this coming RWC.
May not happen if Jordie is permanently shifted to 12.
I think our backs are in more of a state of flux than they we're a couple of months ago - but, that could well be a good thing.
I don't think we are.
We have decided our best 10 in RM. We have locked in our best midfield in JB/RI. And for better or worse we have CC and BB at 11/14, with that not likely to change unless someone beats the door down next year at either spot. If they do, CC might fall out and BB might shift to being a reserve, but what a great reserve to have! 14 is still up for grabs, but likely WJ if fit, with a very able Reece if not
Pretty settled I think!
Even the reserves with TJ (oh yeah), ALB seem locked in.
I think most (probably all) of the guys you mention will be involved.
I'm a lot less confident about predicting quite what number they'll be wearing (even barring injuries) - though I think 9 and 10 are pretty locked in now.
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@Chris-B said in All Black midfield options:
@voodoo said in All Black midfield options:
@Chris-B said in All Black midfield options:
@No-Quarter I've written several times that I think Will should stay at 14 until after this coming RWC.
May not happen if Jordie is permanently shifted to 12.
I think our backs are in more of a state of flux than they we're a couple of months ago - but, that could well be a good thing.
I don't think we are.
We have decided our best 10 in RM. We have locked in our best midfield in JB/RI. And for better or worse we have CC and BB at 11/14, with that not likely to change unless someone beats the door down next year at either spot. If they do, CC might fall out and BB might shift to being a reserve, but what a great reserve to have! 14 is still up for grabs, but likely WJ if fit, with a very able Reece if not
Pretty settled I think!
Even the reserves with TJ (oh yeah), ALB seem locked in.
I think most (probably all) of the guys you mention will be involved.
I'm a lot less confident about predicting quite what number they'll be wearing (even barring injuries) - though I think 9 and 10 are pretty locked in now.
Really??? You don't think 12 and 13 are locked in?
Surely JB has 12 sewn up even if just by default because everyone else has sucked there. And who else is putting their hand up at 13?
11, 14 and 15 I'll give you, there could be some flux there.
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@voodoo said in All Black midfield options:
What's the word on Goodhue coming back? I was never sold on him at 12, but is there a discussion if he's fit, that he could oust ALB for bench covering 12/13? I think he's definitely a better 13 than ALB, and maybe more of a like-for-like swap with Jordie if he gets injured. Combo is a bit slow on gas if we lose Rieko, but ALB is no speed demon either.
It's a combo I've wanted to see in black but Goohue seems pretty broken. Highly doubtful he could get back to where he was in 2019. Shame. He sucked at 12 though.13 or bust with him.
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@antipodean said in All Black midfield options:
@voodoo said in All Black midfield options:
@antipodean said in All Black midfield options:
@voodoo said in All Black midfield options:
What's the word on Goodhue coming back? I was never sold on him at 12, but is there a discussion if he's fit, that he could oust ALB for bench covering 12/13? I think he's definitely a better 13 than ALB, and maybe more of a like-for-like swap with Jordie if he gets injured. Combo is a bit slow on gas if we lose Rieko, but ALB is no speed demon either.
Surely not 13. I'm 50 and I reckon I'd beat him in a race.
I'd pay a tenner to watch that!
I may be exaggerating for comedic effect.
He's a good player and I hope his injuries and extensive layoff don't translate into a mediocre return, but the broader problem is we seem to lack a good second option to Rieko. And an alarming lack of pace across the backline when compared to some of our best backlines in recent memory.
I think that's why they like Ennor. He has wing speed but can supposedly play center. I've yet to see the latter but perhaps next year will be his chance to show hos wares at 13 and then we'd have two similar 13s in the squad.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel I didnt think he was bad at 12, not blockbusting, but he was 'solid' but this isnt what we want for an AB is it, that said, he would get better and he was a good leader for the defence.
I know it was only NPC, but he looked a bit quicker in his brief outings than super where he looked to be running in treacle, but yet another knee surgery
He is the smart kind of player we need there, but I cant see him usurping Rieko for 13, and it is unlikely he will play 12 all super, so I think he is at very long odds to make the RWC squad.
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@taniwharugby said in All Black midfield options:
and it is unlikely he will play 12 all super
What the Crusaders decide to do with Havili, Goodhue, LF & Ennor will have a big impact. Recent AB's midfielders will be pushed to the wing, back to the bench or maybe even miss the 23
