So what did we learn from Bled2?
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To me Jordie's characteristics suit 12 as opposed to 15 and it suits the balance of the team better.
He's not super quick in open space (remember his time on the wing) and I think he actually kicks better tactically from closer in than he does back at fullback - there are different pictures when kicking up in the line vs at fullback.
Because he's not super quick I think he actually creates more opportunities for others at 12 where can use his power and offloading to create second chance opportunities (not to mention his wide passing game) whereas at 15 he's solid but I didn't find he created many opportunities back there.
Could very well be confirmation bias.
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@nzzp said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@voodoo said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
that's seeming to always get the bounce of the ball.
well, sometimes
We tend to have confirmation bias a fair bit. I'm not sure why Reece fell out of favour - he's been the go to for some time. His work in the 2019 pool game against SA was exceptional (I know, a few years ago - but he was superb there).
As an example, Argentina in Ham, the cross kick RM(?) put in fell into the no mans space between WJ and the Argie defender. WJ had a poor game that day, and his indecision about contesting or tackling was noticeable. I wouldn't go as far as 'disinterested' but the workrate you'd like to see was not there.
anyway, quality players both, and not much between them. AB issues are not on the right wing at the moment
Reece is easily NZ's best right winger, incredible work-rate, brilliant under highball, very strong defensively, & his work off the ball is exceptional, Plus he reads the game really well and always puts himself in the right place at the right time to create opportunities, it's something that gets overlooked but Reece has excellent in-game awareness and intelligence. In my opinion, he's one of the most complete wingers in the world yet Foster doesn't even pick him, it's insane really.
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@geeky said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
He's probably one of the most complete wingers in the world, yet Foster doesn't even pick him, it's insane really.
he's going up against someone who has done ridiculous things at lower levels consistently, and is dynamite going forward. I prefer Reece (just), but calling it insane is some kind of hyperbole.
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@nzzp I'm a Crusaders fan and reckon Reece has definitely been more influential for us.
Jordan is a bit of a flake on defense and often dies on attack like McKenzie from taking the wrong option or turning over the ball, whereas Reece always keeps the ball alive and always takes the right option, also Reece brings a lot more physicality because of his weight (99kg) and low COG, and the one aspect I love about him is watching how he's constantly working hard to make a positive impact without the ball, something Jordan's learning to develop a bit more now under Schmidt's coaching.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Stargazer said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I think they should use Jordie at 12 against the big physical teams and persist with Havili against weaker opponents,
I don't know how you rate the current Wobblies squad, but Havilli did pretty damn good against the Boks at Ellis Park - and they are never weak opponents there.
Lol steady on, he was nothing more than solid in that match, and not even in the conversation for MOTM. Jordie is so far ahead of him in every aspect of play it's not even funny, the only question is whether Jordie is at 12 or 15. It seems pretty clear Jordie will be more influential at 12, which pushes Havili to the bench, and then when ALB returns out of the 23.
I'm loathe to want Jordie starting at FB purely for his work under the high ball. That seems an incredibly defensive approach, and it's not like Beauden and Clarke are weak in that regard anyway.
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@No-Quarter said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Stargazer said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I think they should use Jordie at 12 against the big physical teams and persist with Havili against weaker opponents,
I don't know how you rate the current Wobblies squad, but Havilli did pretty damn good against the Boks at Ellis Park - and they are never weak opponents there.
Lol steady on, he was nothing more than solid in that match, and not even in the conversation for MOTM. Jordie is so far ahead of him in every aspect of play it's not even funny, the only question is whether Jordie is at 12 or 15. It seems pretty clear Jordie will be more influential at 12, which pushes Havili to the bench, and then when ALB returns out of the 23.
I'm loathe to want Jordie starting at FB purely for his work under the high ball. That seems an incredibly defensive approach, and it's not like Beauden and Clarke are weak in that regard anyway.
Do you think we will see the high ball again in the RWC? I have Ben Smith at the RWC flashbacks, but Jordie hasn't seemed to be peppered with high balls apart from maybe last year (or was it earlier)...
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@nostrildamus said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@No-Quarter said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Stargazer said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I think they should use Jordie at 12 against the big physical teams and persist with Havili against weaker opponents,
I don't know how you rate the current Wobblies squad, but Havilli did pretty damn good against the Boks at Ellis Park - and they are never weak opponents there.
Lol steady on, he was nothing more than solid in that match, and not even in the conversation for MOTM. Jordie is so far ahead of him in every aspect of play it's not even funny, the only question is whether Jordie is at 12 or 15. It seems pretty clear Jordie will be more influential at 12, which pushes Havili to the bench, and then when ALB returns out of the 23.
I'm loathe to want Jordie starting at FB purely for his work under the high ball. That seems an incredibly defensive approach, and it's not like Beauden and Clarke are weak in that regard anyway.
Do you think we will see the high ball again in the RWC? I have Ben Smith at the RWC flashbacks, but Jordie hasn't seemed to be peppered with high balls apart from maybe last year (or was it earlier)...
Caleb did just fine. And BB is no slug either
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@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@nostrildamus said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@No-Quarter said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Stargazer said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I think they should use Jordie at 12 against the big physical teams and persist with Havili against weaker opponents,
I don't know how you rate the current Wobblies squad, but Havilli did pretty damn good against the Boks at Ellis Park - and they are never weak opponents there.
Lol steady on, he was nothing more than solid in that match, and not even in the conversation for MOTM. Jordie is so far ahead of him in every aspect of play it's not even funny, the only question is whether Jordie is at 12 or 15. It seems pretty clear Jordie will be more influential at 12, which pushes Havili to the bench, and then when ALB returns out of the 23.
I'm loathe to want Jordie starting at FB purely for his work under the high ball. That seems an incredibly defensive approach, and it's not like Beauden and Clarke are weak in that regard anyway.
Do you think we will see the high ball again in the RWC? I have Ben Smith at the RWC flashbacks, but Jordie hasn't seemed to be peppered with high balls apart from maybe last year (or was it earlier)...
Caleb did just fine. And BB is no slug either
Yes I think I agree with you. For some reason I also trust BB more than JB not to do something totally stupid behind the goal line and get caught...I may have no evidence for this though..
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@nostrildamus said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@nostrildamus said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@No-Quarter said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Stargazer said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I think they should use Jordie at 12 against the big physical teams and persist with Havili against weaker opponents,
I don't know how you rate the current Wobblies squad, but Havilli did pretty damn good against the Boks at Ellis Park - and they are never weak opponents there.
Lol steady on, he was nothing more than solid in that match, and not even in the conversation for MOTM. Jordie is so far ahead of him in every aspect of play it's not even funny, the only question is whether Jordie is at 12 or 15. It seems pretty clear Jordie will be more influential at 12, which pushes Havili to the bench, and then when ALB returns out of the 23.
I'm loathe to want Jordie starting at FB purely for his work under the high ball. That seems an incredibly defensive approach, and it's not like Beauden and Clarke are weak in that regard anyway.
Do you think we will see the high ball again in the RWC? I have Ben Smith at the RWC flashbacks, but Jordie hasn't seemed to be peppered with high balls apart from maybe last year (or was it earlier)...
Caleb did just fine. And BB is no slug either
Yes I think I agree with you. For some reason I also trust BB more than JB not to do something totally stupid behind the goal line and get caught...I may have no evidence for this though..
Since when have Ferners needed evidence? But I think your assertion is not correct in this case. We do have to protect our catchers better though
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This quote from Eddie Jones is showing us why we are no longer able to fatigue the Boks and the NH
teams like we used to.
We need a different game plan with bigger ball carriers. Strong kicking game and a very strong set piece to compete under the rules we have now.
As see Jones comments below we are preparing for games with 35 minutes of ball in play.
We need to speed the game up and dump a whole lot of unnecessary Laws.“ Twelve months to the World Cup, we’re playing for a game that’s got 35 minutes of ball in play, so the ability to dress-rehearse, prepare the players for what’s coming up, whether it’s the first round, second round, third round, whatever it is, that is the opportunity going forward.”
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@Chris said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
This quote from Eddie Jones is showing us why we are no longer able to fatigue the Boks and the NH
teams like we used to.
We need a different game plan with bigger ball carriers. Strong kicking game and a very strong set piece to compete under the rules we have now.
As see Jones comments below we are preparing for games with 35 minutes of ball in play.
We need to speed the game up and dump a whole lot of unnecessary Laws.“ Twelve months to the World Cup, we’re playing for a game that’s got 35 minutes of ball in play, so the ability to dress-rehearse, prepare the players for what’s coming up, whether it’s the first round, second round, third round, whatever it is, that is the opportunity going forward.”
35 minutes of ball in play is less than 50%. No wonder rugby can be such a snore fest these days
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@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Chris said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
This quote from Eddie Jones is showing us why we are no longer able to fatigue the Boks and the NH
teams like we used to.
We need a different game plan with bigger ball carriers. Strong kicking game and a very strong set piece to compete under the rules we have now.
As see Jones comments below we are preparing for games with 35 minutes of ball in play.
We need to speed the game up and dump a whole lot of unnecessary Laws.“ Twelve months to the World Cup, we’re playing for a game that’s got 35 minutes of ball in play, so the ability to dress-rehearse, prepare the players for what’s coming up, whether it’s the first round, second round, third round, whatever it is, that is the opportunity going forward.”
35 minutes of ball in play is less than 50%. No wonder rugby can be such a snore fest these days
yep needs to change and quickly.
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@KiwiMurph said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
To me Jordie's characteristics suit 12 as opposed to 15 and it suits the balance of the team better.
He's not super quick in open space (remember his time on the wing) and I think he actually kicks better tactically from closer in than he does back at fullback - there are different pictures when kicking up in the line vs at fullback.
Because he's not super quick I think he actually creates more opportunities for others at 12 where can use his power and offloading to create second chance opportunities (not to mention his wide passing game) whereas at 15 he's solid but I didn't find he created many opportunities back there.
Could very well be confirmation bias.
To me it's always been a no-brainer and I've always scratched my head as to why it was dismissed. He played at 12 for the NZ U20s and Canterbury so it's not like he was new to the position. Then add his size, offload, passing game and strong front-on defence and you have a damn good foundation there. As a fb he has the height, boot and aerial skills but, as you say, he doesn't have high-end pace and can be a bit of a carthorse (as opposed to BB and others who can turn on a dime).
Pity Goodhue is injured because I'd love to see that partnership at test level.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@KiwiMurph said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
To me Jordie's characteristics suit 12 as opposed to 15 and it suits the balance of the team better.
He's not super quick in open space (remember his time on the wing) and I think he actually kicks better tactically from closer in than he does back at fullback - there are different pictures when kicking up in the line vs at fullback.
Because he's not super quick I think he actually creates more opportunities for others at 12 where can use his power and offloading to create second chance opportunities (not to mention his wide passing game) whereas at 15 he's solid but I didn't find he created many opportunities back there.
Could very well be confirmation bias.
To me it's always been a no-brainer and I've always scratched my head as to why it was dismissed. He played at 12 for the NZ U20s and Canterbury so it's not like he was new to the position. Then add his size, offload, passing game and strong front-on defence and you have a damn good foundation there. As a fb he has the height, boot and aerial skills but, as you say, he doesn't have high-end pace and can be a bit of a carthorse (as opposed to BB and others who can turn on a dime).
Pity Goodhue is injured because I'd love to see that partnership at test level.
I'll settle for seeing JB and ALB if Jordie comes out on top up North
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@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Chris said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
This quote from Eddie Jones is showing us why we are no longer able to fatigue the Boks and the NH
teams like we used to.
We need a different game plan with bigger ball carriers. Strong kicking game and a very strong set piece to compete under the rules we have now.
As see Jones comments below we are preparing for games with 35 minutes of ball in play.
We need to speed the game up and dump a whole lot of unnecessary Laws.“ Twelve months to the World Cup, we’re playing for a game that’s got 35 minutes of ball in play, so the ability to dress-rehearse, prepare the players for what’s coming up, whether it’s the first round, second round, third round, whatever it is, that is the opportunity going forward.”
35 minutes of ball in play is less than 50%. No wonder rugby can be such a snore fest these days
These days? Mate, it has only improved over the years.
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@Machpants said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Chris said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
This quote from Eddie Jones is showing us why we are no longer able to fatigue the Boks and the NH
teams like we used to.
We need a different game plan with bigger ball carriers. Strong kicking game and a very strong set piece to compete under the rules we have now.
As see Jones comments below we are preparing for games with 35 minutes of ball in play.
We need to speed the game up and dump a whole lot of unnecessary Laws.“ Twelve months to the World Cup, we’re playing for a game that’s got 35 minutes of ball in play, so the ability to dress-rehearse, prepare the players for what’s coming up, whether it’s the first round, second round, third round, whatever it is, that is the opportunity going forward.”
35 minutes of ball in play is less than 50%. No wonder rugby can be such a snore fest these days
These days? Mate, it has only improved over the years.
Wow. That is a disgrace
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@KiwiMurph said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
To me Jordie's characteristics suit 12 as opposed to 15 and it suits the balance of the team better.
He's not super quick in open space (remember his time on the wing) and I think he actually kicks better tactically from closer in than he does back at fullback - there are different pictures when kicking up in the line vs at fullback.
Because he's not super quick I think he actually creates more opportunities for others at 12 where can use his power and offloading to create second chance opportunities (not to mention his wide passing game) whereas at 15 he's solid but I didn't find he created many opportunities back there.
Could very well be confirmation bias.
To me it's always been a no-brainer and I've always scratched my head as to why it was dismissed. He played at 12 for the NZ U20s and Canterbury so it's not like he was new to the position. Then add his size, offload, passing game and strong front-on defence and you have a damn good foundation there. As a fb he has the height, boot and aerial skills but, as you say, he doesn't have high-end pace and can be a bit of a carthorse (as opposed to BB and others who can turn on a dime).
Pity Goodhue is injured because I'd love to see that partnership at test level.
The idea of J Barrett doing a bit of a half break and offloading in contact to a charging R Ioane ( need to put their first initials so we don’t get confused with their brothers ) fills me with all sorts of excitement.
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@MN5 said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@KiwiMurph said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
To me Jordie's characteristics suit 12 as opposed to 15 and it suits the balance of the team better.
He's not super quick in open space (remember his time on the wing) and I think he actually kicks better tactically from closer in than he does back at fullback - there are different pictures when kicking up in the line vs at fullback.
Because he's not super quick I think he actually creates more opportunities for others at 12 where can use his power and offloading to create second chance opportunities (not to mention his wide passing game) whereas at 15 he's solid but I didn't find he created many opportunities back there.
Could very well be confirmation bias.
To me it's always been a no-brainer and I've always scratched my head as to why it was dismissed. He played at 12 for the NZ U20s and Canterbury so it's not like he was new to the position. Then add his size, offload, passing game and strong front-on defence and you have a damn good foundation there. As a fb he has the height, boot and aerial skills but, as you say, he doesn't have high-end pace and can be a bit of a carthorse (as opposed to BB and others who can turn on a dime).
Pity Goodhue is injured because I'd love to see that partnership at test level.
The idea of J Barrett doing a bit of a half break and offloading in contact to a charging R Ioane ( need to put their first initials so we don’t get confused with their brothers ) fills me with all sorts of excitement.
TBF, the sentence could probably work with an S and an A too.
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@Nepia said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@MN5 said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@KiwiMurph said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
To me Jordie's characteristics suit 12 as opposed to 15 and it suits the balance of the team better.
He's not super quick in open space (remember his time on the wing) and I think he actually kicks better tactically from closer in than he does back at fullback - there are different pictures when kicking up in the line vs at fullback.
Because he's not super quick I think he actually creates more opportunities for others at 12 where can use his power and offloading to create second chance opportunities (not to mention his wide passing game) whereas at 15 he's solid but I didn't find he created many opportunities back there.
Could very well be confirmation bias.
To me it's always been a no-brainer and I've always scratched my head as to why it was dismissed. He played at 12 for the NZ U20s and Canterbury so it's not like he was new to the position. Then add his size, offload, passing game and strong front-on defence and you have a damn good foundation there. As a fb he has the height, boot and aerial skills but, as you say, he doesn't have high-end pace and can be a bit of a carthorse (as opposed to BB and others who can turn on a dime).
Pity Goodhue is injured because I'd love to see that partnership at test level.
The idea of J Barrett doing a bit of a half break and offloading in contact to a charging R Ioane ( need to put their first initials so we don’t get confused with their brothers ) fills me with all sorts of excitement.
TBF, the sentence could probably work with an S and an A too.
Naaaaa, those two are shit, especially Akira.