Boxing Thread
-
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@Windows97 said in Boxing Thread:
One of my fondest childhood sporting memories and possibly one of the best all-time was the Riddick Bowe Andrew Golota II fight.
The grudge match rematch of epic proportions.
Come a few rounds in and it had descended into a mythical brawl the likes of which I've never seen. All technique, professionalism, maybe even higher brain function and basic humanity had deserted both men.
Two punch drunk fighters stumbling around the ring like a pair of drunks with their shoelaces tied together throwing haymakers at each other like they had 20kg dumb bells in their hands instead of boxing gloves.
Me and the old man were watching it laughing uproariously, it started as a professional boxing bout and went south at incredible speed into two men staggering around the ring throwing enormous hay makers at each other. I've never seen anything so funny in professional sport, even after all these years it brings tears of mirth to my eye's recalling the event.
Bowe won, how he remained standing I don't know, he took some incredible hits. I don't think he actually fought high profile after that again, pretty sure that fight ended his career, a few days on his speech was still slurred after the fight.
Golota went on to fight and lose badly to Lennox Lewis, I think the Bowe fight ended him as well.
Ahh the fond memories, boxing certainly is a sport like no other.
Big Daddy Bowe was a tremendous fighter. Incredible record, just the one loss and that was to Evander Holyfield who he beat twice as well.
Not rated too highly in the annals of boxing history, then again it could be argued he didn’t fight many names…….
Never fought Lewis which was a shame, that would have been incredible and I think he might have had the goods to beat Tyson if they fought as well.
Andrew Golota had the talent to be a legend but was completely fucked in the head. There was some controversy over how he quit vs Tyson but apparently he was badly injured and hadn’t recovered ?
They say that is one fight Tyson didn’t want , they went to school together and they say bowe was the biggest toughest kid around when they were growing up ,
Not sure if it was psychological or just out of respect through being school friends, but it’s the one fight he didn’t want to happen .
….and that’s the beauty of it isn’t it ?
Tyson looked more formidable than ANYONE when on form and demolishing guys….but against someone bigger and not afraid the tables often got turned.
Lots of experts reckon Bowe would have done a Lewis on him even at their respective bests.
Not to mention that Tyson never once got up to win after being knocked down and his resume lacked beating really top flight fighters at their best ( like Bowe I guess )
The thing is that 20 year old champion Tyson was based on speed, skill and punching power. He wasn't tall and most people he fought had greater reach. Cus even gave him shit for being too short for a heavyweight. Once he stopped giving a shit, stopped moving and just went for the knock out he was always going to come unstuck against an opponent who wasn't scared and had the ability to survive those early rounds. I put fit, motivated and Rooney trained Tyson up there with anyone. He was a straight out freak. It's a shame that we never really saw peak form Tyson. He was either snorting coke or in prison snorting coke.
Tyson is undoubtedly compelling. At his best ( which actually wasn’t a long period ) that combo as you say of speed, power, aggression and skill was just breathtaking…..and of course he had that “fear” factor…..guys like Marvin Frazier and Michael Spinks were beaten before the bell even rung….and what an absolutely fascinating human being, I’d love to have a yarn with him over a cup of herbal tea ( I don’t think he allows himself anything stronger nowadays )
BUT ( and maybe I’ve read too much about boxing ) there is a school of thought that even at his very best he wasn’t unbeatable. There’s a great article which I’ll try and find which states that ( in order of their reigns ) Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis would have beaten him. Liston was huge, mean, powerful, skilled…..Ali I don’t need to mention…..Frazier was the closest to Tyson but a Pit Bull who NEVER gave up…..Foreman was a slightly inferior Liston ( Jesus what a terrifying thought )…..Holmes had the best jab ever and Lewis was a cautious but masterful boxer with power.
Again, just one guys opinion and when I see footage of Tyson at his best fucking guys shit up I find it hard to believe but worthy of a discussion all the same.
It's difficult to gauge different eras etc. And ultimately what constitutes the best boxer? Is it consistency over many years or being the best when everything was perfectly in place? That old boxing guru Bert Sugar pumped for Louis because he reckoned he had a knock-out punch for every round.
-
@kiwiinmelb Sure do, and I'm a huge Fury fan too, but Usyk's extra speed, the fact that he is a southpaw and his ring iq won't allow Fury to lean all over him and tire him out physically. Usyk also isn't gonna stand and trade in the pocket like Wilder and Whyte have tried to do against Fury.
Fury barely scraped past Wallin, the last southpaw he faced, and Wallin ain't anywhere near the quality of Usyk.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@Windows97 said in Boxing Thread:
One of my fondest childhood sporting memories and possibly one of the best all-time was the Riddick Bowe Andrew Golota II fight.
The grudge match rematch of epic proportions.
Come a few rounds in and it had descended into a mythical brawl the likes of which I've never seen. All technique, professionalism, maybe even higher brain function and basic humanity had deserted both men.
Two punch drunk fighters stumbling around the ring like a pair of drunks with their shoelaces tied together throwing haymakers at each other like they had 20kg dumb bells in their hands instead of boxing gloves.
Me and the old man were watching it laughing uproariously, it started as a professional boxing bout and went south at incredible speed into two men staggering around the ring throwing enormous hay makers at each other. I've never seen anything so funny in professional sport, even after all these years it brings tears of mirth to my eye's recalling the event.
Bowe won, how he remained standing I don't know, he took some incredible hits. I don't think he actually fought high profile after that again, pretty sure that fight ended his career, a few days on his speech was still slurred after the fight.
Golota went on to fight and lose badly to Lennox Lewis, I think the Bowe fight ended him as well.
Ahh the fond memories, boxing certainly is a sport like no other.
Big Daddy Bowe was a tremendous fighter. Incredible record, just the one loss and that was to Evander Holyfield who he beat twice as well.
Not rated too highly in the annals of boxing history, then again it could be argued he didn’t fight many names…….
Never fought Lewis which was a shame, that would have been incredible and I think he might have had the goods to beat Tyson if they fought as well.
Andrew Golota had the talent to be a legend but was completely fucked in the head. There was some controversy over how he quit vs Tyson but apparently he was badly injured and hadn’t recovered ?
They say that is one fight Tyson didn’t want , they went to school together and they say bowe was the biggest toughest kid around when they were growing up ,
Not sure if it was psychological or just out of respect through being school friends, but it’s the one fight he didn’t want to happen .
….and that’s the beauty of it isn’t it ?
Tyson looked more formidable than ANYONE when on form and demolishing guys….but against someone bigger and not afraid the tables often got turned.
Lots of experts reckon Bowe would have done a Lewis on him even at their respective bests.
Not to mention that Tyson never once got up to win after being knocked down and his resume lacked beating really top flight fighters at their best ( like Bowe I guess )
The thing is that 20 year old champion Tyson was based on speed, skill and punching power. He wasn't tall and most people he fought had greater reach. Cus even gave him shit for being too short for a heavyweight. Once he stopped giving a shit, stopped moving and just went for the knock out he was always going to come unstuck against an opponent who wasn't scared and had the ability to survive those early rounds. I put fit, motivated and Rooney trained Tyson up there with anyone. He was a straight out freak. It's a shame that we never really saw peak form Tyson. He was either snorting coke or in prison snorting coke.
Tyson is undoubtedly compelling. At his best ( which actually wasn’t a long period ) that combo as you say of speed, power, aggression and skill was just breathtaking…..and of course he had that “fear” factor…..guys like Marvin Frazier and Michael Spinks were beaten before the bell even rung….and what an absolutely fascinating human being, I’d love to have a yarn with him over a cup of herbal tea ( I don’t think he allows himself anything stronger nowadays )
BUT ( and maybe I’ve read too much about boxing ) there is a school of thought that even at his very best he wasn’t unbeatable. There’s a great article which I’ll try and find which states that ( in order of their reigns ) Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis would have beaten him. Liston was huge, mean, powerful, skilled…..Ali I don’t need to mention…..Frazier was the closest to Tyson but a Pit Bull who NEVER gave up…..Foreman was a slightly inferior Liston ( Jesus what a terrifying thought )…..Holmes had the best jab ever and Lewis was a cautious but masterful boxer with power.
Again, just one guys opinion and when I see footage of Tyson at his best fucking guys shit up I find it hard to believe but worthy of a discussion all the same.
It's difficult to gauge different eras etc. And ultimately what constitutes the best boxer? Is it consistency over many years or being the best when everything was perfectly in place? That old boxing guru Bert Sugar pumped for Louis because he reckoned he had a knock-out punch for every round.
Joe Louis sounded like the absolute man. Even in shitty old grainy footage his economy of movement, skill and power was something else.
He fought forever too, just listen to these experts talk about him. Fighting at the age of 76 is incredible.
-
@Crucial said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@Crucial said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@Crucial said in Boxing Thread:
@MiketheSnow said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@MiketheSnow respect where it’s due for AJ taking this ,
I mean you would think after the consecutive losses the thing to do would be to take a couple of easy fights to get the confidence back ,
Kind of surprised it’s happening, but rapt it is
Nothing to lose
No brainer
Nobody is expecting him to win after two consecutive losses
And he has the built in excuse of not enough time between fighting Usyk and then Fury
Fury is taking a massive risk
But he obviously smells blood in the water
Or AJ is facing up to the realisation of his ceiling and is taking what he can with a chance. It's kind of all or nothing for him. He won't want to be a gateway fighter (and is too good for that anyway) so if he can't be at the very top then that's it.
If you are at JPs level you get to hover in the zone of paydays and challenges for a while as others are willing to fight you.He has hit his ceiling. His upcoming fight will be very interesting
I agree. He could still get lucky but he's never going to hold the top position for long. My point was more that he can clock up fights as the guy that you prove your worth against. He's no bum and has shown an ability to mix it. If you want a crack at the top see if you can show out against someone like JP first. That's where his paydays are.
I feel a lot more optimistic with Joe now , not so much with saying he will scale the mountain , but more fighting at his true potential , he has good people around him ,
I watched this interview with Andy the other day , he is in better hands now than when he was with Barry
he has a big fight with Joyce next weekend for the mandatory position , that is a big challenge , Joyce is a tough bastard, probably a crossroads fight in a lot of ways
with being good mates with Tyson , and Andy Lee Tysons cousin , I think their plan would be to hover around , keep improving , and have one last crack when Tyson retires , and usyk is 35 , its worth noting Joe is only 30 and does have time on his hands .
Interesting comments about Joyce in that clip.
I watched his fight against Takam and could see exactly what Andy Lee meant. Joyce is quite slow and unco and relies on being able to take punches. Takam was hitting him easily when he used hand speed but wasn't doing it enough.yeah he is a tough tough man , but is there to be hit , his hands are slow but heavy , and he keeps coming forward ( to quote Ali talking about Foreman ) like a big Mummy
Joe seems completly refreshed , i liked what i saw in Chisora 2 ,
the old Joe that took breaks I would be concerned about , but if he builds on thatlast performance , it should be interesting
-
@African-Monkey said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb Sure do, and I'm a huge Fury fan too, but Usyk's extra speed, the fact that he is a southpaw and his ring iq won't allow Fury to lean all over him and tire him out physically. Usyk also isn't gonna stand and trade in the pocket like Wilder and Whyte have tried to do against Fury.
Fury barely scraped past Wallin, the last southpaw he faced, and Wallin ain't anywhere near the quality of Usyk.
You arent the only one that thinks that , Boxing forums are full of people saying pretty similar things,
GGG too old for Canelo now ?
I think canelo at 168 might stop him now at 40
-
@kiwiinmelb I think so. Don't think Canelo will stop him as GGG has an awesome chin, but he wins a fairly comfortable decision.
-
@African-Monkey said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb I think so. Don't think Canelo will stop him as GGG has an awesome chin, but he wins a fairly comfortable decision.
I watched ggg last middleweight title fight against the jap whose name escapes me ,
And he looked clearly uncomfortable when hit to the body , grimacing and changing his guard to cover up ,
And I thought how will he go being hit to the body by a 168 canelo ,
If there is a stoppage I think it’s off the back of body shots, not your traditional knockout as such
-
@kiwiinmelb Ryoto Murata is who you're thinking of, and yes, Canelo is the nastiest body puncher jn the game pop, although a case could also be made for Naoya Inoue.
For some reason, I'm not that excited for this fight, but there are some good fights being made around the divisions, so we could be entering an exciting little phase in boxing.
-
@African-Monkey said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb Ryoto Murata is who you're thinking of, and yes, Canelo is the nastiest body puncher jn the game pop, although a case could also be made for Naoya Inoue.
For some reason, I'm not that excited for this fight, but there are some good fights being made around the divisions, so we could be entering an exciting little phase in boxing.
Yeah that’s him , early rounds he was banging ggg hard to the body and he was struggling with it ,
not as excited as the other 2 fights but still have some interest , here in aus , Foxtel charging 59 bucks for the fight , yet you can watch it on dazn for $3 a month subscription , makes no sense.
Looking forward to parker Joyce next week , I really like that match up , and shakur Stevenson , enjoy watching him ,
-
@kiwiinmelb Also Dmitri Bivol v Gilberto Ramirez. Real good clash of styles and we'll see how good Ramirez really is. I really rate him highly, but Bivol is so technically sound and makes a lot of fighters look bad.
Also have a look at Jesse Rodriguez if you haven't seen him yet. This kid is the business, possibly the biggest prospect in Boxing, he's the main undercard fight on this card.
-
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@African-Monkey said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb Ryoto Murata is who you're thinking of, and yes, Canelo is the nastiest body puncher jn the game pop, although a case could also be made for Naoya Inoue.
For some reason, I'm not that excited for this fight, but there are some good fights being made around the divisions, so we could be entering an exciting little phase in boxing.
Yeah that’s him , early rounds he was banging ggg hard to the body and he was struggling with it ,
not as excited as the other 2 fights but still have some interest , here in aus , Foxtel charging 59 bucks for the fight , yet you can watch it on dazn for $3 a month subscription , makes no sense.
Looking forward to parker Joyce next week , I really like that match up , and shakur Stevenson , enjoy watching him ,
Will be interesting for sure. I’ve mentioned on here that Parker has in my opinion reached his ceiling. He’s kind of like Butch from Pulp Fiction….if he was going to make it he would have made it by now. No disgrace in that at all of course and I wish him the absolute best but taking on Fury/Joshua ( already proven)/Wilder and Usyk is probably a bridge too far.
-
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@African-Monkey said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb Ryoto Murata is who you're thinking of, and yes, Canelo is the nastiest body puncher jn the game pop, although a case could also be made for Naoya Inoue.
For some reason, I'm not that excited for this fight, but there are some good fights being made around the divisions, so we could be entering an exciting little phase in boxing.
Yeah that’s him , early rounds he was banging ggg hard to the body and he was struggling with it ,
not as excited as the other 2 fights but still have some interest , here in aus , Foxtel charging 59 bucks for the fight , yet you can watch it on dazn for $3 a month subscription , makes no sense.
Looking forward to parker Joyce next week , I really like that match up , and shakur Stevenson , enjoy watching him ,
Will be interesting for sure. I’ve mentioned on here that Parker has in my opinion reached his ceiling. He’s kind of like Butch from Pulp Fiction….if he was going to make it he would have made it by now. No disgrace in that at all of course and I wish him the absolute best but taking on Fury/Joshua ( already proven)/Wilder and Usyk is probably a bridge too far.
Butch was on the take, a double-crosser and pulled out of retirement.
I don't think JP reaching his ceiling is the problem, it is getting a good trainer so late in his career. -
@nostrildamus said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@African-Monkey said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb Ryoto Murata is who you're thinking of, and yes, Canelo is the nastiest body puncher jn the game pop, although a case could also be made for Naoya Inoue.
For some reason, I'm not that excited for this fight, but there are some good fights being made around the divisions, so we could be entering an exciting little phase in boxing.
Yeah that’s him , early rounds he was banging ggg hard to the body and he was struggling with it ,
not as excited as the other 2 fights but still have some interest , here in aus , Foxtel charging 59 bucks for the fight , yet you can watch it on dazn for $3 a month subscription , makes no sense.
Looking forward to parker Joyce next week , I really like that match up , and shakur Stevenson , enjoy watching him ,
Will be interesting for sure. I’ve mentioned on here that Parker has in my opinion reached his ceiling. He’s kind of like Butch from Pulp Fiction….if he was going to make it he would have made it by now. No disgrace in that at all of course and I wish him the absolute best but taking on Fury/Joshua ( already proven)/Wilder and Usyk is probably a bridge too far.
Butch was on the take, a double-crosser and pulled out of retirement.
I don't think JP reaching his ceiling is the problem, it is getting a good trainer so late in his career.Possibly not my best comparison……
He did look to have more power in his later fights than earlier it must be said so perhaps the good training is helping ?
-
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@nostrildamus said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@African-Monkey said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb Ryoto Murata is who you're thinking of, and yes, Canelo is the nastiest body puncher jn the game pop, although a case could also be made for Naoya Inoue.
For some reason, I'm not that excited for this fight, but there are some good fights being made around the divisions, so we could be entering an exciting little phase in boxing.
Yeah that’s him , early rounds he was banging ggg hard to the body and he was struggling with it ,
not as excited as the other 2 fights but still have some interest , here in aus , Foxtel charging 59 bucks for the fight , yet you can watch it on dazn for $3 a month subscription , makes no sense.
Looking forward to parker Joyce next week , I really like that match up , and shakur Stevenson , enjoy watching him ,
Will be interesting for sure. I’ve mentioned on here that Parker has in my opinion reached his ceiling. He’s kind of like Butch from Pulp Fiction….if he was going to make it he would have made it by now. No disgrace in that at all of course and I wish him the absolute best but taking on Fury/Joshua ( already proven)/Wilder and Usyk is probably a bridge too far.
Butch was on the take, a double-crosser and pulled out of retirement.
I don't think JP reaching his ceiling is the problem, it is getting a good trainer so late in his career.Possibly not my best comparison……
He did look to have more power in his later fights than earlier it must be said so perhaps the good training is helping ?
Yes I think so too but is it too late to get rid of ingrained Barry coaching/tactics? Barry didn't impress me as a boxer or coach, but he was at least gutsy I guess.
-
Some good insight from Shane Fury ( Tysons brother ) on parker v Joyce and Tyson v Joshua
-
@KiwiMurph said in Boxing Thread:
Is that the end of Parker's career?
Didn’t watch it but kept an eye on the live tracker.
VERY tough to see where he goes from here. Sounds like he fought very bravely but yeah, first knockout loss of his career will be a tough break to come back from.
It just sounds ( from what I read ) that he didn’t quite have the power to trouble Joyce ( which has always been a relative weakness throughout his career to be fair ). Parker seems a cool guy, nice bloke, proud NZer but just lacks that tiny bit of extra “something” to truly march alongside the big boppers of this generation.
I’ll watch the highlights with interest.
-
@KiwiMurph As a contender, yes.
Joyce is unbelievable. Has a granite chin, doesn't stop throwing or marching forward, and his stamina gets better as the fight goes on. He's George Foreman reincarnated.
-
@African-Monkey said in Boxing Thread:
@KiwiMurph As a contender, yes.
Joyce is unbelievable. Has a granite chin, doesn't stop throwing or marching forward, and his stamina gets better as the fight goes on. He's George Foreman reincarnated.
Yeah I’ve heard him described like that too. Whether he is of that elite class is another thing though….
-
@MN5 No, he hit Joyce with some huge bombs, but Joyce's chin is something else.
If I were the rest of the HW division, I'd stay well clear of Joyce
