All Blacks v Wales Test #3

Chris B.

The thing about SBW coming in straight away is that, if he's been training under Titch's regime to enhance his endurance - isn't he likely to have shed a fair bit of weight? Optimal for sevens, but not for XVs.
 
I guess they will call it as they see it.
 
Here's some of Hansen's comments: 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11662090'>http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11662090</a>
 
Agree - PS - it's a huge leap of faith that Naholo can play centre at test level - especially defend there - he's somewhat struggling with wing.
 
I think they've got six midfielders when SBW returns - so, in fact, they'll have to shed two. I guess all that we know for sure is that SBW won't be one. Based on their comments around selection of this squad, where Tamanivalu was one of the last two squad members selected and Moala was only cover, you'd imagine that ST and GM are favourites to drop out. I don't think ST really covered himself with glory in the final minutes last weekend, so I'd be inclined speculatively to draw a line through him - I guess we then wait to see whether Moala has the stormer he needs to pressure the others.
 
One interesting question - given that all of SBW, Ngatai and Crotty appear to be predominantly viewed as second five's (but with more or less midfield utility value) and Fekitoa can certainly play there, is who they decide will play where. Assuming SBW has one slot locked down, I'd probably most like to see 12. Ngatai; 13 SBW. But if they want SBW at 12, then the rapier/broadsword theory suggests perhaps SBW/Crotty ahead of SBW/Fekitoa - or do they try Ngatai at 13 where I haven't seen him play much if at all?
 
Edit: hadn't seen Bovidae's comment on Ngatai.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="590939" data-time="1466726882">
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Can I just add that Ngatai has played quite a lot at centre. I wouldn't look at this as being SBW or Ngatai. I think these two and Crotty are the best options available.
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Though Fekitoa went to the RWC last year when Crotty and Ngatai didn't.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://haka.co.nz/author/tracey/'>http://haka.co.nz/author/tracey/</a>
 
Tracey Nelson's stats make Crotty look like he's doing plenty of grunt work. Topping the tackle count and hitting a heap of rucks.

gt12

Well, if they all kick on, it's a fantastic problem - in order of selector preference it might be something like: SBW, Crotty, Fekitoa, Ngatai, Moala, Taimanivalu + Ioane coming. 
Moala certainly has a huuuuge upside, and Crotty is a great foil for both SBW and and Moala (so too is Ngatai at 13, where he is great with SBW). And all of them can play 12 & 13. 
I see pressure for Fekitoa to get a bit more accurate right now, because I think he is primarily a 13 - he has looked ok with SBW and Nonu and did well at 12 with Smith, but he hasn't really been able to bring the success he has with the landers (where he gets used a bit differently) to the AB 13 jersey - yet. 
It's going to be interesting, at least, because we have something to talk about.

KiwiMurph

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="590944" data-time="1466727533">
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The thing about SBW coming in straight away is that, if he's been training under Titch's regime to enhance his endurance - isn't he likely to have shed a fair bit of weight? Optimal for sevens, but not for XVs.
 
I guess they will call it as they see it.
 
Here's some of Hansen's comments: 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11662090'>http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11662090</a>
 
Agree - PS - it's a huge leap of faith that Naholo can play centre at test level - especially defend there - he's somewhat struggling with wing.
 
I think they've got six midfielders when SBW returns - so, in fact, they'll have to shed two. I guess all that we know for sure is that SBW won't be one. Based on their comments around selection of this squad, where Tamanivalu was one of the last two squad members selected and Moala was only cover, you'd imagine that ST and GM are favourites to drop out. I don't think ST really covered himself with glory in the final minutes last weekend, so I'd be inclined speculatively to draw a line through him - I guess we then wait to see whether Moala has the stormer he needs to pressure the others.
 
 
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Reading between the lines I think they might carry 5 midfielders and it's a straight shootout between Moala and Seta. I've seen comments that perhaps DMac will drop out of the squad for this to happen.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="590944" data-time="1466727533">
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I guess we then wait to see whether Moala has the stormer he needs to pressure the others.
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</blockquote>
 
I hope Moala has an absolute blinder, would be great for him and for Tana

gt12

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="590950" data-time="1466728003">Reading between the lines I think they might carry 5 midfielders and it's a straight shootout between Moala and Seta. I've seen comments that perhaps DMac will drop out of the squad for this to happen.</blockquote>
 
Ngatai is a great squaddy too, as he can cover 10-15 at a major pinch - of course mainly midfield and fullback.

pukunui

I think its a good move giving Moala a shot. Was surprised Tamanivalu was picked ahead of him in the first place. Don't think Tamanivalu has really proven himself at Super level let alone test.
 
Long term I'd like to see 12.SBW 13. Ngatai because i think that gives you a good mix of hard running and ball playing with Ngatai also providing a kicking option.
The more I see Fekitoa play the less I rate him. Just doesn't seem to be advancing his game and while Crotty is solid IMO Ngatai is just as solid but has a lot more upside in attack.
SBW has proven himself plenty of times. He will walk back in with Nonu and Conrad gone.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="590950" data-time="1466728003">
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Reading between the lines I think they might carry 5 midfielders and it's a straight shootout between Moala and Seta. I've seen comments that perhaps DMac will drop out of the squad for this to happen.
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</blockquote>
 
I guess they could do that - though one of the midfielders would be largely redundant, unless they decide someone - e.g. Moala - is the next best wing option.
 
Currently, I think DMac is a bit redundant - he's basically the 4th choice fullback - and I think having another wing in the squad would give a better balance.
 
That will happen automatically, I think, when Skudder returns, but I wouldn't have minded seeing e.g. Lowe picked.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="590957" data-time="1466728871">
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I think its a good move giving Moala a shot. Was surprised Tamanivalu was picked ahead of him in the first place. Don't think Tamanivalu has really proven himself at Super level let alone test.
 
Long term I'd like to see 12.SBW 13. Ngatai because i think that gives you a good mix of hard running and ball playing with Ngatai also providing a kicking option.
The more I see Fekitoa play the less I rate him. Just doesn't seem to be advancing his game and while Crotty is solid IMO Ngatai is just as solid but has a lot more upside in attack.
SBW has proven himself plenty of times. He will walk back in with Nonu and Conrad gone.
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that's the thing isn't it, he hasn't really progressed since he burst onto the scene, if anything, he has regressed at international level, which is more due to opposition knowing him better now. That being said, he still has a lot of upside, and could potentially be awesome!

mariner4life

what does he do well? He's not dominant in contact, he has suspect hands (especially in contact), he's not great on the outside shoulder, and he doesn't have a great distribution game (by hand or foot). He's also not a dominant defender. From what i can see, he's reasonably athletic, and runs around a lot. Needs to show a bit more than that to grab a long term spot i think.

taniwharugby

he isn't doing much well right now.

pukunui

Yeah once his trick of running hard until he is physically stopped (even if it is around in circles), that took so many defences by surprise in his breakout season, was figured out he doesn't have a hell of a lot to offer.
The more he used that trick the more hungusy he got also which doesn't help. Not sure his rushing out of the line in defence which seems to work in Super rugby fits so well in tight tests either.
Time will tell i guess.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="590961" data-time="1466729258">
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Currently, I think DMac is a bit redundant - he's basically the 4th choice fullback - and I think having another wing in the squad would give a better balance.
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</blockquote>
 
I think they brought him in to have a good look and give him a bunch of work-ons. He's playing well, but size counts against him.

Hooroo

He is a midget and light but how big is Ben Smith?

mariner4life

187 and 95kg. That's not small. 
 
DMac is small. And his performances have got worse as teams have focused on him, and applied more pressure to his decision making. I seriously doubt he'll have any sort of decent test career. At this stage i think he's more likely to have a TNW-type Super career.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="590998" data-time="1466731989">
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He is a midget and light but how big is Ben Smith?
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</blockquote>
Wikipedia:
DMac
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<div><a class="" href="https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=damian+mckenzie+height&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LWz9U3MDQoy4o3LNKSzU620i8uyC8qKdYvKMqPTyzJyEktSbXKSM1MzygBAAYnIoguAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjusuibw7_NAhVY32MKHTZaD9AQ6BMIkgEoADAW">Height</a>: 1.77 m</div>
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<div><a class="" href="https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=damian+mckenzie+weight&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LWz9U3MDQoy4o3LNKSzU620i8uyC8qKdYvKMqPTyzJyEktSbUqT81MzygBAEiXonouAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjusuibw7_NAhVY32MKHTZaD9AQ6BMIlQEoADAX">Weight</a>: 81 kg</div>
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<div>Bender</div>
<div><a class="" href="https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ben+smith+height&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LSz9U3sExPSynI05LNTrbSLy7ILyop1i8oyo9PLMnISS1JtcpIzUzPKAEAReh5cS0AAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiC16uXw7_NAhVY5mMKHRhzDu8Q6BMInAEoADAY">Height</a>: 1.87 m</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><a class="" href="https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ben+smith+weight&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LSz9U3sExPSynI05LNTrbSLy7ILyop1i8oyo9PLMnISS1JtSpPzUzPKAEAC1j5gy0AAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiC16uXw7_NAhVY5mMKHRhzDu8Q6BMInwEoADAZ">Weight</a>: 85 kg (may be 95 now according to M4L)</div>
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mariner4life

I was sure B Smith was 95kg. Mainly because i thought it was funny he was the same size as i was when i played, being he's a winger, and i was a loose forward (just another of the many, many reasons i was never an AB). 
 
His AB profile has him at 93.

taniwharugby

NMS is 1.8m and 90kg and he does look small in International rugby

nzzp

Height is harder to lie about unless you are David Tua.
 
Weights on rugby sites seem to be made up - heavy people get lighter, light people get heavier

kiwiinmelb

He's very courageous , but I have doubts about him through his lack of size at the higher level . 
I would love him to succeed but can see him getting rag dolled and bullied unfortunately

The Silver Fern

All Blacks v Wales Test #3