All Blacks v Wales Test #3

Provincial Stalwart

There were some really interesting comments made by Hansen about the midfield in yesterday's media. I can't be bothered posting links, but there was a 4 minute video plus Pat McKendry's article on / in the Auckland Herald website and what I saw on TV3 sports news last night.
 
McKendry's article stated that SBW, if fit, would be available for the first RC match in Sydney on August 20 (the sevens final at Rio is on Aug 11). Hansen confirmed Fekitoa's injury meant he couldn't play and then talked up Moala's strengths and good work on training paddock. He then confirmed that "one of the group has to go" i.e. one of the current four midfielders would be axed when SBW returns, and so it appears clear that Moala is being considered for a spot in the top 4 midfielders (after being ranked 6th a short time ago). There was also a comment made earlier about "other guys in the sevens team" so maybe that is a bone for Rieko Ioane's future chances.
 
I've got no problem with any of this.
 
But then it got weird. Hansen confirmed that "Wise" (Naholo) was the midfield cover for this test and that was okay because he has played centre quite a bit previously, and then clarified that was in high school. Comments like this shit me a bit because it is a veeery long bow to draw to say that a guy who played centre in high school can suddenly cover centre from the bench in a test match from the bench. To my knowledge he has not played midfield at Super level, though maybe he has for the Naki at provincial or even for Wanganui. Naholo, at this stage in his career, is still developing his allround skills for the wing position which are different but surely lesser than that required to be a test match centre. Naholo's game other than his attack (specifically running with the ball in hand and his support play) is a bit shit, but suddenly he can play a more complicated position?
 
I'm sorry Hansen and Foster and Fox, but that requires a leap of faith for me. I know they deserve my faith because they fucking rule, but this is strange call. If the likes of Rene Ranger actually play there at SR level but don't [yet] get considered to be test match midfield candidates, or a guy like Francis Saili got no traction, then why would Naholo? Baffling. They're casting the net extremely wide here. It's way worse even than trying Cullen or Leon Macdonald at centre at a RWC. I can't see Naholo at centre in this game as being anything more than a one-off.
 
The other side of the "let's try Naholo" equation is the omission / non-consideration of Tamanivalu. ST was not mentioned in any of the video I saw talking about 3rd test selections. It seems very strange that with an injury / unavailability "crisis" involving three of our top 4 midfielders (SBW / Ngatai / Fekitoa) that ST would be discarded totally from the 23. There seemed no injury so it must be read as saying about him "we've looked at him and we've seen enough" to make up our mind about him at this stage. But is it "he's shit" or is it "he's good"?

kiwiinmelb

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="590889" data-time="1466709172">
I've stayed out of the crotty debate. To be honest I'm not his biggest fan either 
However, you can't use one miss kick against him. He had often turned out at first five for new Brighton and can definately play the role of a scone playmaker if needed. Generally kicks pretty well off both feet. 
I think he's the best option whilst ngatai is unavailable.</blockquote> 
I have mixed feelings on crotty , while I tend to agree he is the closest thing we have to Conrad , one part of conrads game that gets overlooked was his silky hands and decision making with ball in hand, not sure we get the same from crotty . 
I'm happy enough for him to be there for now also, he is safe and reliable , but it's not hard to imagine him being swept aside for someone who plays with more authority in the near future.

taniwharugby

while he is very Conrad like, why is he playing 12? Is he the best option at 12 with what we currently have, and once SBW returns, and/or Ngatai is fit, he will move out to 13?

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="590861" data-time="1466679180">
<div>
Giteau, Horan etc had a bit of 2nd playmaker about them.
 
Crotty doesn't. Witness his attempt at a crosskick last week.
 
He's an out-and-out centre for me, and I prefer him at outside rather than inside centre.
</div>
</blockquote>
The kick that led to the try? That was a fucking genius "kick pass". Wales were at 6s and 7s after he executed that.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="590897" data-time="1466715842">
<div>
while he is very Conrad like, why is he playing 12? Is he the best option at 12 with what we currently have, and once SBW returns, and/or Ngatai is fit, he will move out to 13?
</div>
</blockquote>
I far prefer him at 13, he's a very dependable player both on attack and defense. We need someone that can straighten the attack at 12. Though it appears the AB selectors are moving away from that blue print.

pakman

Saw somewhere that Moala and Crotty will interchange. Herald or Stuff.
 
Moala can certainly straighten, but passing needs work. Much like a young Nonu.

kiwiinmelb

At a guess I reckon Hanson has sonny pencilled in to play 12 , but you try not to put all your eggs in one basket , probably ngatai was another option with crotty to be looked at . 
And now he is left with one .

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="590911" data-time="1466720944">
<div>
At a guess I reckon Hanson has sonny pencilled in to play 12 , but you try not to put all your eggs in one basket , probably ngatai was another option with crotty to be looked at . 
And now he is left with one .
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I can accept SBW walking straight back into the team.....
 
......from the bench. Where he has done very well. Is he really the default starting 12 simply cos Nonu has gone ? I'm not sure it's that clear cut.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="590923" data-time="1466724105">I can accept SBW walking straight back into the team..... 
......from the bench. Where he has done very well. Is he really the default starting 12 simply cos Nonu has gone ? I'm not sure it's that clear cut.</blockquote>
 
Last time Nonu was unavailable (rested) SBW was put straight into the starting lineup.

mariner4life

and killed it

Bovidae

Can I just add that Ngatai has played quite a lot at centre. I wouldn't look at this as being SBW or Ngatai. I think these two and Crotty are the best options available.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Provincial Stalwart" data-cid="590895" data-time="1466715208">There were some really interesting comments made by Hansen about the midfield in yesterday's media. I can't be bothered posting links, but there was a 4 minute video plus Pat McKendry's article on / in the Auckland Herald website and what I saw on TV3 sports news last night. 
McKendry's article stated that SBW, if fit, would be available for the first RC match in Sydney on August 20 (the sevens final at Rio is on Aug 11). Hansen confirmed Fekitoa's injury meant he couldn't play and then talked up Moala's strengths and good work on training paddock. He then confirmed that "one of the group has to go" i.e. one of the current four midfielders would be axed when SBW returns, and so it appears clear that Moala is being considered for a spot in the top 4 midfielders (after being ranked 6th a short time ago). There was also a comment made earlier about "other guys in the sevens team" so maybe that is a bone for Rieko Ioane's future chances. 
I've got no problem with any of this. 
But then it got weird. Hansen confirmed that "Wise" (Naholo) was the midfield cover for this test and that was okay because he has played centre quite a bit previously, and then clarified that was in high school. Comments like this shit me a bit because it is a veeery long bow to draw to say that a guy who played centre in high school can suddenly cover centre from the bench in a test match from the bench. To my knowledge he has not played midfield at Super level, though maybe he has for the Naki at provincial or even for Wanganui. Naholo, at this stage in his career, is still developing his allround skills for the wing position which are different but surely lesser than that required to be a test match centre. Naholo's game other than his attack (specifically running with the ball in hand and his support play) is a bit shit, but suddenly he can play a more complicated position? 
I'm sorry Hansen and Foster and Fox, but that requires a leap of faith for me. I know they deserve my faith because they fucking rule, but this is strange call. If the likes of Rene Ranger actually play there at SR level but don't [yet] get considered to be test match midfield candidates, or a guy like Francis Saili got no traction, then why would Naholo? Baffling. They're casting the net extremely wide here. It's way worse even than trying Cullen or Leon Macdonald at centre at a RWC. I can't see Naholo at centre in this game as being anything more than a one-off. 
The other side of the "let's try Naholo" equation is the omission / non-consideration of Tamanivalu. ST was not mentioned in any of the video I saw talking about 3rd test selections. It seems very strange that with an injury / unavailability "crisis" involving three of our top 4 midfielders (SBW / Ngatai / Fekitoa) that ST would be discarded totally from the 23. There seemed no injury so it must be read as saying about him "we've looked at him and we've seen enough" to make up our mind about him at this stage. But is it "he's shit" or is it "he's good"?</blockquote>
 
The baffling thing for me is that you seem to expect Hansen to spell everything out in an interview. C'mon you should know Shag better than that :) 
It's the first test series after a RWC and we have lost our longest serving midfield ever. There was always going to be some experimenting and trialling given they left at the same time. 
I don't see the issue with the comments about Naholo covering midfield. It may happen, it may not. He's on the bench and Sopoaga isn't going to cover centre is he.... 
I like that there is a willingness to try things out or even consider it. It's not like the old days, if they want to look at how someone goes it has to be in a test match, not some midweek non-test. My own view is that Tamanivalu did some stuff that probably didn't impress them. So he has some work ons. Give the next guy a go. 
Some will call it cheapening the jersey, but I say it's the reality of test footy.

Chris B.

The thing about SBW coming in straight away is that, if he's been training under Titch's regime to enhance his endurance - isn't he likely to have shed a fair bit of weight? Optimal for sevens, but not for XVs.
 
I guess they will call it as they see it.
 
Here's some of Hansen's comments: 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11662090'>http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11662090</a>
 
Agree - PS - it's a huge leap of faith that Naholo can play centre at test level - especially defend there - he's somewhat struggling with wing.
 
I think they've got six midfielders when SBW returns - so, in fact, they'll have to shed two. I guess all that we know for sure is that SBW won't be one. Based on their comments around selection of this squad, where Tamanivalu was one of the last two squad members selected and Moala was only cover, you'd imagine that ST and GM are favourites to drop out. I don't think ST really covered himself with glory in the final minutes last weekend, so I'd be inclined speculatively to draw a line through him - I guess we then wait to see whether Moala has the stormer he needs to pressure the others.
 
One interesting question - given that all of SBW, Ngatai and Crotty appear to be predominantly viewed as second five's (but with more or less midfield utility value) and Fekitoa can certainly play there, is who they decide will play where. Assuming SBW has one slot locked down, I'd probably most like to see 12. Ngatai; 13 SBW. But if they want SBW at 12, then the rapier/broadsword theory suggests perhaps SBW/Crotty ahead of SBW/Fekitoa - or do they try Ngatai at 13 where I haven't seen him play much if at all?
 
Edit: hadn't seen Bovidae's comment on Ngatai.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="590939" data-time="1466726882">
<div>
Can I just add that Ngatai has played quite a lot at centre. I wouldn't look at this as being SBW or Ngatai. I think these two and Crotty are the best options available.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Though Fekitoa went to the RWC last year when Crotty and Ngatai didn't.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://haka.co.nz/author/tracey/'>http://haka.co.nz/author/tracey/</a>
 
Tracey Nelson's stats make Crotty look like he's doing plenty of grunt work. Topping the tackle count and hitting a heap of rucks.

gt12

Well, if they all kick on, it's a fantastic problem - in order of selector preference it might be something like: SBW, Crotty, Fekitoa, Ngatai, Moala, Taimanivalu + Ioane coming. 
Moala certainly has a huuuuge upside, and Crotty is a great foil for both SBW and and Moala (so too is Ngatai at 13, where he is great with SBW). And all of them can play 12 & 13. 
I see pressure for Fekitoa to get a bit more accurate right now, because I think he is primarily a 13 - he has looked ok with SBW and Nonu and did well at 12 with Smith, but he hasn't really been able to bring the success he has with the landers (where he gets used a bit differently) to the AB 13 jersey - yet. 
It's going to be interesting, at least, because we have something to talk about.

KiwiMurph

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="590944" data-time="1466727533">
<div>
The thing about SBW coming in straight away is that, if he's been training under Titch's regime to enhance his endurance - isn't he likely to have shed a fair bit of weight? Optimal for sevens, but not for XVs.
 
I guess they will call it as they see it.
 
Here's some of Hansen's comments: 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11662090'>http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11662090</a>
 
Agree - PS - it's a huge leap of faith that Naholo can play centre at test level - especially defend there - he's somewhat struggling with wing.
 
I think they've got six midfielders when SBW returns - so, in fact, they'll have to shed two. I guess all that we know for sure is that SBW won't be one. Based on their comments around selection of this squad, where Tamanivalu was one of the last two squad members selected and Moala was only cover, you'd imagine that ST and GM are favourites to drop out. I don't think ST really covered himself with glory in the final minutes last weekend, so I'd be inclined speculatively to draw a line through him - I guess we then wait to see whether Moala has the stormer he needs to pressure the others.
 
 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Reading between the lines I think they might carry 5 midfielders and it's a straight shootout between Moala and Seta. I've seen comments that perhaps DMac will drop out of the squad for this to happen.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="590944" data-time="1466727533">
<div>
I guess we then wait to see whether Moala has the stormer he needs to pressure the others.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I hope Moala has an absolute blinder, would be great for him and for Tana

gt12

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="590950" data-time="1466728003">Reading between the lines I think they might carry 5 midfielders and it's a straight shootout between Moala and Seta. I've seen comments that perhaps DMac will drop out of the squad for this to happen.</blockquote>
 
Ngatai is a great squaddy too, as he can cover 10-15 at a major pinch - of course mainly midfield and fullback.

pukunui

I think its a good move giving Moala a shot. Was surprised Tamanivalu was picked ahead of him in the first place. Don't think Tamanivalu has really proven himself at Super level let alone test.
 
Long term I'd like to see 12.SBW 13. Ngatai because i think that gives you a good mix of hard running and ball playing with Ngatai also providing a kicking option.
The more I see Fekitoa play the less I rate him. Just doesn't seem to be advancing his game and while Crotty is solid IMO Ngatai is just as solid but has a lot more upside in attack.
SBW has proven himself plenty of times. He will walk back in with Nonu and Conrad gone.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="590950" data-time="1466728003">
<div>
Reading between the lines I think they might carry 5 midfielders and it's a straight shootout between Moala and Seta. I've seen comments that perhaps DMac will drop out of the squad for this to happen.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I guess they could do that - though one of the midfielders would be largely redundant, unless they decide someone - e.g. Moala - is the next best wing option.
 
Currently, I think DMac is a bit redundant - he's basically the 4th choice fullback - and I think having another wing in the squad would give a better balance.
 
That will happen automatically, I think, when Skudder returns, but I wouldn't have minded seeing e.g. Lowe picked.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks v Wales Test #3