Bledisloe 1
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@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe 1:
@Bones said in Bledisloe 1:
@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe 1:
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe 1:
@bayimports said in Bledisloe 1:
some hyperbolic shit on this thread
are you new?
i also love that that specific debate includes a player thats not actually available due to injury
And one that retired half a decade ago.
wasn't it between Frizell and Akira?
Don't forget to bring up Kaino's name half a dozen times.
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@Bones said in Bledisloe 1:
@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe 1:
@Bones said in Bledisloe 1:
@Kiwiwomble said in Bledisloe 1:
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe 1:
@bayimports said in Bledisloe 1:
some hyperbolic shit on this thread
are you new?
i also love that that specific debate includes a player thats not actually available due to injury
And one that retired half a decade ago.
wasn't it between Frizell and Akira?
Don't forget to bring up Kaino's name half a dozen times.
“He’s no Jerry Collins, but who is” usually has made the discussion by now.
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@Daffy-Jaffy said in Bledisloe 1:
Brodie speaks wonderfully well in these pressers. His deep knowledge of the game really comes through.
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@Crucial said in Bledisloe 1:
@Kirwan said in Bledisloe 1:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe 1:
@Kirwan said in Bledisloe 1:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe 1:
@Billy-Tell said in Bledisloe 1:
Hmmm. I see the akira is awesome posts again. Bloody well show us please akira with a dominant display off the bench rather than an ok-ish one.
TBF there’s only one poster dying on that hill.
He’s a good player no doubt but the fact is that it’s not just Foster but Ryan as well that can see that he doesn’t match the desire for a straight running charger. They want someone that tackles with their shoulder more than their arms and drives with their legs in contact rather than trying to step.
No, just one that can be bothered arguing with the usual suspects about it.
Everything you wrote up there describes Akira's game. FFS.
We must have our players mixed up then 😀
No, just that you are pretty wrong (as usual) about how he plays.
OK thanks. I'll let Jase Ryan know as well.
The selectors have been really clear about the style and attributes they want from their 6 and by their actions they agree with me. You seem to be the only one that sees Akira differently.
As I have said numerous times, he is a good player. Just plays differently to what they want.In the first 50.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Bledisloe 1:
@MiketheSnow said in Bledisloe 1:
If NZ lose this then we've entered the Upside Down
Where's the trigger warning?!!!!!!
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For me Cane and Frizell are heavy duty flankers, e.g. hit rucks well. They're never going to compete in the loose with Ardie, Akira and Hos, who are all much faster. But a LF trio needs balance, and with two heavy duty types a flier works well, at least in first 50.
Akira and Ardie are a bit samey and not great together against teams such as Boks and Pumas.
I'm fine with the selection, and main query is what happens at 50 when Cane off, and Paps and Akira on. Does Scooter go to lock and give Big Sam a rest? Or does Akira pick up where Hos left off?
I imagine that decision will be driven by how well the Wobbly five are going. -
@pakman said in Bledisloe 1:
For me Cane and Frizell are heavy duty flankers, e.g. hit rucks well. They're never going to compete in the loose with Ardie, Akira and Hos, who are all much faster. But a LF trio needs balance, and with two heavy duty types a flier works well, at least in first 50.
Akira and Ardie are a bit samey and not great together against teams such as Boks and Pumas.
I'm fine with the selection, and main query is what happens at 50 when Cane off, and Paps and Akira on. Does Scooter go to lock and give Big Sam a rest? Or does Akira pick up where Hos left off?
I imagine that decision will be driven by how well the Wobbly five are going.Is Frizzel lighter and therefore faster than Akira ? Anyone got any stats ?
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@pakman said in Bledisloe 1:
For me Cane and Frizell are heavy duty flankers, e.g. hit rucks well. They're never going to compete in the loose with Ardie, Akira and Hos, who are all much faster. But a LF trio needs balance, and with two heavy duty types a flier works well, at least in first 50.
Akira and Ardie are a bit samey and not great together against teams such as Boks and Pumas.
I'm fine with the selection, and main query is what happens at 50 when Cane off, and Paps and Akira on. Does Scooter go to lock and give Big Sam a rest? Or does Akira pick up where Hos left off?
I imagine that decision will be driven by how well the Wobbly five are going.Yes, bang on. It is a bit of a rope-a-dope approach with the loose forwards. Not that they go all wild in the last 30 but the idea seems to be to blunt the opposition and change their thinking. Get them looking wide where turnovers and mistakes happen.
SF is a more limited player than AI but that's what they want at the start. Same with Cane. -
@MN5 said in Bledisloe 1:
@pakman said in Bledisloe 1:
For me Cane and Frizell are heavy duty flankers, e.g. hit rucks well. They're never going to compete in the loose with Ardie, Akira and Hos, who are all much faster. But a LF trio needs balance, and with two heavy duty types a flier works well, at least in first 50.
Akira and Ardie are a bit samey and not great together against teams such as Boks and Pumas.
I'm fine with the selection, and main query is what happens at 50 when Cane off, and Paps and Akira on. Does Scooter go to lock and give Big Sam a rest? Or does Akira pick up where Hos left off?
I imagine that decision will be driven by how well the Wobbly five are going.Is Frizzel lighter and therefore faster than Akira ? Anyone got any stats ?
I'd say that Akira is probably the faster. SF isn't there to be fast though. We need players that can nullify the power game of the opposition until those power levels reduce and the faster guys can take advantage.
As far as the swap around with the locks and who goes off, I guess that will depend on who has had to do the most graft up to that point and how their numbers are. The analysts these days have that info available in real time and can tell who is slowing down the most or becoming less effective.
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@pakman said in Bledisloe 1:
For me Cane and Frizell are heavy duty flankers, e.g. hit rucks well. They're never going to compete in the loose with Ardie, Akira and Hos, who are all much faster. But a LF trio needs balance, and with two heavy duty types a flier works well, at least in first 50.
Akira and Ardie are a bit samey and not great together against teams such as Boks and Pumas.
I'm fine with the selection, and main query is what happens at 50 when Cane off, and Paps and Akira on. Does Scooter go to lock and give Big Sam a rest? Or does Akira pick up where Hos left off?
I imagine that decision will be driven by how well the Wobbly five are going.This is the Fern narrative, yes. But ignores the fact that Akira and Frizzell are basically the same size (not much different either from SB too), and you also have to ignore all the tight work Akira does as well.
In other words it's bullshit.
Oh, and Akira is significantly faster than Frizzell. Is better at getting over the advantage line as well.
Because he has better skills, and pace, Foster seems to want him to play a Read role out wide. Just play him tight and you get Frizzell+.
Amusingly, when he came on in the last game and stayed tight he got criticised for that too.
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@Kirwan said in Bledisloe 1:
@pakman said in Bledisloe 1:
For me Cane and Frizell are heavy duty flankers, e.g. hit rucks well. They're never going to compete in the loose with Ardie, Akira and Hos, who are all much faster. But a LF trio needs balance, and with two heavy duty types a flier works well, at least in first 50.
Akira and Ardie are a bit samey and not great together against teams such as Boks and Pumas.
I'm fine with the selection, and main query is what happens at 50 when Cane off, and Paps and Akira on. Does Scooter go to lock and give Big Sam a rest? Or does Akira pick up where Hos left off?
I imagine that decision will be driven by how well the Wobbly five are going.This is the Fern narrative, yes. But ignores the fact that Akira and Frizzell are basically the same size (not much different either from SB too), and you also have to ignore all the tight work Akira does as well.
In other words it's bullshit.
Oh, and Akira is significantly faster than Frizzell. Is better at getting over the advantage line as well.
Because he has better skills, and pace, Foster seems to want him to play a Read role out wide. Just play him tight and you get Frizzell+.
Amusingly, when he came on in the last game and stayed tight he got criticised for that too.
They are players that take a different approach to contact and that is very plain to see. Calling it a 'fern narrative' is blind.
Have a watch of the first test against Argentina again. When SF carries into contact he puts the head down and drives. AI stands flat-footed and goes upright using his upper body strength to try and gain ground. If you want a good reference watch the 77th minute. He does one carry where he actually shuffles backward before moving forward. Goes upright, Ardie style and forces his way through the first tackler to get over the advantage line. A couple of phases later he tries the same thing but this time we lose momentum because he gets caught upright and driven back. Just after AI comes on (and he is obviously planted wide) he gets to clear two rucks. Both times he pushes and grabs opposition players away from the ruck but leaves them standing.
Now compare that to SF earlier in the game. His carries are head down charges and his ruck work is hard with a shoulder, sitting players on their arses.Both are effective and have different styles. If, as a coach, you have a plan to use one to soften and one to range later in the game, which way around would you do it? Logically, AI is the more athletic, faster, 'steppier' player of the two so it's pretty obvious that he suits the latter role.
The days of 'starter' always being judged as the better player are gone. There are roles to play. -
@bayimports said in Bledisloe 1:
some hyperbolic shit on this thread and it is only about 2 players in the same team lol. Personally I think they offer different strengths, SF did put in some big games recently but I still think Akira has a higher ceiling. Even the stats shared for me only show part of the story. Carries, tackles, missed tackles, metres gained cover part of it, anyone with access to find stats like number of cleanouts, successful cleanouts v penalties conceded?, someone used to track (1st 3 players to a ruck) etc, Im sure some platform would have them. Probably would put a few of the other forwards to shame knowing those numbers, but might help shape opinions more objectively including my own..
Bro, forget the stats. All we need are a few short well edited video clips of highlights, maybe with a bit of rap/hip-hop music playing in the background and the odd boomfa from Marshall and that will show how Owesome each of them are.
And the first 3 players to ruck stat is only bought out on special occasions, when some poster is doubting the greatness of Reuben Thorne.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@bayimports said in Bledisloe 1:
some hyperbolic shit on this thread and it is only about 2 players in the same team lol. Personally I think they offer different strengths, SF did put in some big games recently but I still think Akira has a higher ceiling. Even the stats shared for me only show part of the story. Carries, tackles, missed tackles, metres gained cover part of it, anyone with access to find stats like number of cleanouts, successful cleanouts v penalties conceded?, someone used to track (1st 3 players to a ruck) etc, Im sure some platform would have them. Probably would put a few of the other forwards to shame knowing those numbers, but might help shape opinions more objectively including my own..
Bro, forget the stats. All we need are a few short well edited video clips of highlights, maybe with a bit of rap/hip-hop music playing in the background and the odd boomfa from Marshall and that will show how Owesome each of them are.
And the first 3 players to ruck stat is only bought out on special occasions, when some poster is doubting the greatness of Reuben Thorne.
Thorne would get to rucks quickly but I think his eyesight was bad because once there he would stop and try to focus.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@bayimports said in Bledisloe 1:
some hyperbolic shit on this thread and it is only about 2 players in the same team lol. Personally I think they offer different strengths, SF did put in some big games recently but I still think Akira has a higher ceiling. Even the stats shared for me only show part of the story. Carries, tackles, missed tackles, metres gained cover part of it, anyone with access to find stats like number of cleanouts, successful cleanouts v penalties conceded?, someone used to track (1st 3 players to a ruck) etc, Im sure some platform would have them. Probably would put a few of the other forwards to shame knowing those numbers, but might help shape opinions more objectively including my own..
Bro, forget the stats. All we need are a few short well edited video clips of highlights, maybe with a bit of rap/hip-hop music playing in the background and the odd boomfa from Marshall and that will show how Owesome each of them are.
And the first 3 players to ruck stat is only bought out on special occasions, when some poster is doubting the greatness of Reuben Thorne.
White players usually have a bit of thrash metal to emphasise how powerful and dynamic they are. So racist.
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@pakman said in Bledisloe 1:
For me Cane and Frizell are heavy duty flankers, e.g. hit rucks well. They're never going to compete in the loose with Ardie, Akira and Hos, who are all much faster. But a LF trio needs balance, and with two heavy duty types a flier works well, at least in first 50.
Akira and Ardie are a bit samey and not great together against teams such as Boks and Pumas.
I'm fine with the selection, and main query is what happens at 50 when Cane off, and Paps and Akira on. Does Scooter go to lock and give Big Sam a rest? Or does Akira pick up where Hos left off?
I imagine that decision will be driven by how well the Wobbly five are going.That's pretty much what I'm expecting, though I was thinking Scott to shift in and Retallick to the bench.
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@pakman said in Bledisloe 1:
@NTA said in Bledisloe 1:
Must say, I'm really enjoying the passion and verve of this thread in terms of Player A vs Player B etc.
It won't make a lick of difference to the result - ABs by 25.
If the ABs win by 24 you'll be celebrating.
Little victories
