Worst AB Captain
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@broughie cant we have both? everyone should be able too...but we can also have someone whose focus on defence is to be a fucking nuisance
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@Kiwiwomble sure. Is Cane that person?
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@Kirwan said in Worst AB Captain:
@Duluth said in Worst AB Captain:
Ardie has played almost exclusively at no8 in 2020, 2021 & 2022. This is at SR and Test level. He hasn’t played regularly at 7 since 2019
Apparently keeping him in his regular position is playing him out of position & playing him out of position is not playing him out of position
If you want to move him - fine. I can see merit in that and it may well work. The out of position argument isn’t coherent when he’s been at 8 for so long and is playing well
And more to the point, he's playing well at 8. Even when the tight five goes completely missing like in the last 30mins.
Correct me if wrong but Ardie really starts dominating in last 30-40, but isn't a huge lineout presence or makes big carries in the first half (is a good tackler but not a dominant one) so why not put him on the bench and put a specialist 8 on the field for 40-50 minutes? If you think he is the best player at 7 or 8 and should be on the field for 80 minutes so be it. And I personally believe he is still a great 7. But I understand he doesn't play there any more. But surely, athletically and in terms of turnovers and a running (and linking game) he is now ahead of Cane?
If they played a traditional England game, Cane's strengths come to the fore, but the ABs typically don't seem to play a game that suits forwards like the current Cane (who started off his AB career by having a good running game if I recall correctly). -
oh and calling a player a moron because you don't like his form or selection isn't something I agree with. I'm also not sure who is calling the shots on the field, the stupid kicks from 10 in earlier games looked like instructions were from the coaching. But still, moron is harsh and in Cane's case unfair.
I'd like to see him rested too, I'd also like to see another Captain who seems hungrier and more driven, but I'm not on the field and Cane is probably popular with not just the coach but also the players. -
It was interesting to read an old post from the Baron (I think) that somebody posted the other day. It basically said Ardie is inventing a new position and suggested it be called the Savea. I guess if Ardie is to start we have to decide what traditional backrow position is to be sacrificed. At the moment it's 8.
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Quick question regards Cane after reading today's stuff article "Ian Foster's logic matched by his All Blacks' baffling form" by Duncan Johnstone
This is captain Cane who has been replaced in the second half in four of this year’s six tests, a statistic that does little to boost the public questioning of his place at openside flanker or the need for leadership in the final quarter when these All Blacks have regularly been found wanting.Were any of those 4 replacements for injury and did Cane's replacement seem to help/improve their performance or not?
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@nostrildamus said in Worst AB Captain:
Quick question regards Cane after reading today's stuff article "Ian Foster's logic matched by his All Blacks' baffling form" by Duncan Johnstone
This is captain Cane who has been replaced in the second half in four of this year’s six tests, a statistic that does little to boost the public questioning of his place at openside flanker or the need for leadership in the final quarter when these All Blacks have regularly been found wanting.Were any of those 4 replacements for injury and did Cane's replacement seem to help/improve their performance or not?
Slipper the Aus captain has been replaced in all his 3 games as captain, means f*** all really.
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@Dan54 said in Worst AB Captain:
@nostrildamus said in Worst AB Captain:
Quick question regards Cane after reading today's stuff article "Ian Foster's logic matched by his All Blacks' baffling form" by Duncan Johnstone
This is captain Cane who has been replaced in the second half in four of this year’s six tests, a statistic that does little to boost the public questioning of his place at openside flanker or the need for leadership in the final quarter when these All Blacks have regularly been found wanting.Were any of those 4 replacements for injury and did Cane's replacement seem to help/improve their performance or not?
Slipper the Aus captain has been replaced in all his 3 games as captain, means f*** all really.
different, props don't last 80 these days,Dumb choice for a Captain.
McCaw didn't get subbed or Read and they are LF's like Cane it means a great deal when you sub your Captain, in AB's it just hasn't happened before except for injury.
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@Chris said in Worst AB Captain:
@Dan54 said in Worst AB Captain:
@nostrildamus said in Worst AB Captain:
Quick question regards Cane after reading today's stuff article "Ian Foster's logic matched by his All Blacks' baffling form" by Duncan Johnstone
This is captain Cane who has been replaced in the second half in four of this year’s six tests, a statistic that does little to boost the public questioning of his place at openside flanker or the need for leadership in the final quarter when these All Blacks have regularly been found wanting.Were any of those 4 replacements for injury and did Cane's replacement seem to help/improve their performance or not?
Slipper the Aus captain has been replaced in all his 3 games as captain, means f*** all really.
different, props don't last 80 these days,Dumb choice for a Captain.
McCaw didn't get subbed or Read and they are LF's like Cane it means a great deal when you sub your Captain, in AB's it just hasn't happened before except for injury.
Not here to rain on the parade, but 20 times in his 111 as captain.
Most were blow outs and many inside the last 10 minutes to go.
The most memorable sub of McCaw was that Baabaas loss in 09 and he was subbed at half time.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Worst AB Captain:
@broughie said in Worst AB Captain:
@Kiwiwomble sure. Is Cane that person?
im not the best game analyst but i dont remember cane popping up with the ball as much as other 7's, im probably wrong but i feel he's doing the tackling that other countries would have their tights forwards doing and so he's not on the tacklers shoulder looking for the ball
He's being used in a funny way. He is providing short passing links a bit like BBBR used to do years ago but behind the advantage line. I can't tell if this is an idea to draw in and hold a defender with a late short pop to take advantage but it doesn't really seem to work once seen a couple of times as defenders are holding off him in anticipation anyway.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Worst AB Captain:
@Chris said in Worst AB Captain:
@Dan54 said in Worst AB Captain:
@nostrildamus said in Worst AB Captain:
Quick question regards Cane after reading today's stuff article "Ian Foster's logic matched by his All Blacks' baffling form" by Duncan Johnstone
This is captain Cane who has been replaced in the second half in four of this year’s six tests, a statistic that does little to boost the public questioning of his place at openside flanker or the need for leadership in the final quarter when these All Blacks have regularly been found wanting.Were any of those 4 replacements for injury and did Cane's replacement seem to help/improve their performance or not?
Slipper the Aus captain has been replaced in all his 3 games as captain, means f*** all really.
different, props don't last 80 these days,Dumb choice for a Captain.
McCaw didn't get subbed or Read and they are LF's like Cane it means a great deal when you sub your Captain, in AB's it just hasn't happened before except for injury.
Not here to rain on the parade, but 20 times in his 111 as captain.
Most were blow outs and many inside the last 10 minutes to go.
The most memorable sub of McCaw was that Baabaas loss in 09 and he was subbed at half time.
Ok fair enough McCaw would have the mana for it to work in a losing team not a confident look.
McCaw also started games with many injuries including a broken foot maybe it was managing those injuries.
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@Chris said in Worst AB Captain:
@Dan54 said in Worst AB Captain:
@nostrildamus said in Worst AB Captain:
Quick question regards Cane after reading today's stuff article "Ian Foster's logic matched by his All Blacks' baffling form" by Duncan Johnstone
This is captain Cane who has been replaced in the second half in four of this year’s six tests, a statistic that does little to boost the public questioning of his place at openside flanker or the need for leadership in the final quarter when these All Blacks have regularly been found wanting.Were any of those 4 replacements for injury and did Cane's replacement seem to help/improve their performance or not?
Slipper the Aus captain has been replaced in all his 3 games as captain, means f*** all really.
different, props don't last 80 these days,Dumb choice for a Captain.
McCaw didn't get subbed or Read and they are LF's like Cane it means a great deal when you sub your Captain, in AB's it just hasn't happened before except for injury.
Why does anyone say but McCaw didn't or did do anything, you know he has retired and was probably one of best players to play the game. I have seen many captains replaced Kolisi, does, I have seen George Gregan replaced,,Dylan Hartley,for England,,Sam Warburton for Lions and Wales etc, it's not that unusual to be honest. Christ even DuPont probably the best 9 on the planet and captain gets subbed.
Whoops and just McCaw has been subbed. It's not a big thing to sub captains, , Fren -
@Dan54 said in Worst AB Captain:
@Chris said in Worst AB Captain:
@Dan54 said in Worst AB Captain:
@nostrildamus said in Worst AB Captain:
Quick question regards Cane after reading today's stuff article "Ian Foster's logic matched by his All Blacks' baffling form" by Duncan Johnstone
This is captain Cane who has been replaced in the second half in four of this year’s six tests, a statistic that does little to boost the public questioning of his place at openside flanker or the need for leadership in the final quarter when these All Blacks have regularly been found wanting.Were any of those 4 replacements for injury and did Cane's replacement seem to help/improve their performance or not?
Slipper the Aus captain has been replaced in all his 3 games as captain, means f*** all really.
different, props don't last 80 these days,Dumb choice for a Captain.
McCaw didn't get subbed or Read and they are LF's like Cane it means a great deal when you sub your Captain, in AB's it just hasn't happened before except for injury.
Why does anyone say but McCaw didn't or did do anything, you know he has retired and was probably one of best players to play the game. I have seen many captains replaced Kolisi, does, I have seen George Gregan replaced,,Dylan Hartley,for England,,Sam Warburton for Lions and Wales etc, it's not that unusual to be honest. Christ even DuPont probably the best 9 on the planet and captain gets subbed.
Whoops and just McCaw has been subbed. It's not a big thing to sub captains, , FrenNot a good look when you are losing all the time the Captain is getting bagged in the media and by a lot of people and the Coach Drags him 4 games in a row.
That is not a good look throws petrol on the fire.
Bad coaching. -
Has anyone mentioned Blackadder yet in this thread? Such a limited player
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@Chris said in Worst AB Captain:
@Dan54 said in Worst AB Captain:
@Chris said in Worst AB Captain:
@Dan54 said in Worst AB Captain:
@nostrildamus said in Worst AB Captain:
Quick question regards Cane after reading today's stuff article "Ian Foster's logic matched by his All Blacks' baffling form" by Duncan Johnstone
This is captain Cane who has been replaced in the second half in four of this year’s six tests, a statistic that does little to boost the public questioning of his place at openside flanker or the need for leadership in the final quarter when these All Blacks have regularly been found wanting.Were any of those 4 replacements for injury and did Cane's replacement seem to help/improve their performance or not?
Slipper the Aus captain has been replaced in all his 3 games as captain, means f*** all really.
different, props don't last 80 these days,Dumb choice for a Captain.
McCaw didn't get subbed or Read and they are LF's like Cane it means a great deal when you sub your Captain, in AB's it just hasn't happened before except for injury.
Why does anyone say but McCaw didn't or did do anything, you know he has retired and was probably one of best players to play the game. I have seen many captains replaced Kolisi, does, I have seen George Gregan replaced,,Dylan Hartley,for England,,Sam Warburton for Lions and Wales etc, it's not that unusual to be honest. Christ even DuPont probably the best 9 on the planet and captain gets subbed.
Whoops and just McCaw has been subbed. It's not a big thing to sub captains, , FrenNot a good look when you are losing all the time the Captain is getting bagged in the media and by a lot of people and the Coach Drags him 4 games in a row.
That is not a good look throws petrol on the fire.
Bad coaching.They also dragged Samisoni at the 45 minute mark so I'd not read anything into their subs, they just seem to be completely fucking random
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- Blackadder
- Randal
- Cane
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@No-Quarter said in Worst AB Captain:
Has anyone mentioned Blackadder yet in this thread? Such a limited player
Wish I was that limited.
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@No-Quarter said in Worst AB Captain:
@Chris said in Worst AB Captain:
@Dan54 said in Worst AB Captain:
@Chris said in Worst AB Captain:
@Dan54 said in Worst AB Captain:
@nostrildamus said in Worst AB Captain:
Quick question regards Cane after reading today's stuff article "Ian Foster's logic matched by his All Blacks' baffling form" by Duncan Johnstone
This is captain Cane who has been replaced in the second half in four of this year’s six tests, a statistic that does little to boost the public questioning of his place at openside flanker or the need for leadership in the final quarter when these All Blacks have regularly been found wanting.Were any of those 4 replacements for injury and did Cane's replacement seem to help/improve their performance or not?
Slipper the Aus captain has been replaced in all his 3 games as captain, means f*** all really.
different, props don't last 80 these days,Dumb choice for a Captain.
McCaw didn't get subbed or Read and they are LF's like Cane it means a great deal when you sub your Captain, in AB's it just hasn't happened before except for injury.
Why does anyone say but McCaw didn't or did do anything, you know he has retired and was probably one of best players to play the game. I have seen many captains replaced Kolisi, does, I have seen George Gregan replaced,,Dylan Hartley,for England,,Sam Warburton for Lions and Wales etc, it's not that unusual to be honest. Christ even DuPont probably the best 9 on the planet and captain gets subbed.
Whoops and just McCaw has been subbed. It's not a big thing to sub captains, , FrenNot a good look when you are losing all the time the Captain is getting bagged in the media and by a lot of people and the Coach Drags him 4 games in a row.
That is not a good look throws petrol on the fire.
Bad coaching.They also dragged Samisoni at the 45 minute mark so I'd not read anything into their subs, they just seem to be completely fucking random
thats one of my points though bad coaching.But ST isn't the leader.
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