Worst AB Captain
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@dogmeat said in Worst AB Captain:
@MN5 Harty played Randell out of position. He had no problem throwing him under the bus either.
Judge Taine's captaincy ability on the 2002 EOYT. Inspirational leadership especially when you consider he was effectively coaching the team as well while Mitchell and Deans got on the piss.
Tell me more.
Good point actually, if the fern was around in 1999 it would have melted down with the amount of folk wanting Isitolo Maka at number 8 instead of Taine.
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Cane does not appear to be an effective captain. Neither is he clearly the best in his position.
I would relieve him of the captaincy and give it to Ardie Savea. He strikes me as being the best in his position (no.8) and appears from the outside to be an inspirational leader. He is also the next cab off the rank as when Cane goes off he becomes captain.
I would do that immediately.
I would also bring in Dalton this week to play no 7 and see if that improves our back row balance.
I don't advocate dropping Cane entirely - just give him a week off and reassess.
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Cane has been a good All Black for a long time.
However he's not suited to captaincy and he's not the player he once was.
Alarm bells should have been ringing when Cane captained the Chiefs to 0 wins in Super Rugby Aotearoa under Gatland.
It's not Cane's fault as the issue lies with who put him there.
Just like the issue with Foster is who put him there.
For what it's worth i'm not 100% sold yet on Papalii as a test star but I think he'd be an improvement on Cane (as would Savea at 7 and Hoskins at 8).
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@Damo said in Worst AB Captain:
Cane does not appear to be an effective captain. Neither is he clearly the best in his position.
I would relieve him of the captaincy and give it to Ardie Savea. He strikes me as being the best in his position (no.8) and appears from the outside to be an inspirational leader. He is also the next cab off the rank as when Cane goes off he becomes captain.
I would do that immediately.
I would also bring in Dalton this week to play no 7 and see if that improves our back row balance.
I don't advocate dropping Cane entirely - just give him a week off and reassess.
How does bringing Dalton in improve the balance? When you say 'clearly not the best in his position', who is? If Ardie then move Ardie
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Well one things for certain the current loose setup isn't working I'd go dual opens Papalli Savea and Sotutu. More go forward Need to apply more turnover pressure
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@BerniesCorner said in Worst AB Captain:
Well one things for certain the current loose setup isn't working I'd go dual opens Papalli Savea and Sotutu. More go forward Need to apply more turnover pressure
But still two sevens. We need Ardie in 7, a six at six, and an 8 at 8.
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@Machpants said in Worst AB Captain:
@BerniesCorner said in Worst AB Captain:
Well one things for certain the current loose setup isn't working I'd go dual opens Papalli Savea and Sotutu. More go forward Need to apply more turnover pressure
But still two sevens. We need Ardie in 7, a six at six, and an 8 at 8.
Luddite!!!
Blasphemy.
We should have more sevens. If Paps is any good move him hooker.
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@dogmeat said in Worst AB Captain:
@Machpants said in Worst AB Captain:
@BerniesCorner said in Worst AB Captain:
Well one things for certain the current loose setup isn't working I'd go dual opens Papalli Savea and Sotutu. More go forward Need to apply more turnover pressure
But still two sevens. We need Ardie in 7, a six at six, and an 8 at 8.
Luddite!!!
Blasphemy.
We should have more sevens. If Paps is any good move him hooker.
Better than Taylor, I'm sure
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A pair of 7s 77
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@Crucial said in Worst AB Captain:
They are struggling to clean well because our momentum is backwards.
I think partly, and partly the decison making. The lack of cleaning in Bokke 1 was despicable. Just disjointed, inaccurate and the opposition rode the ref and had a field day.
Hell, there are so many areas we're struggling with. Skills are a big one; Cody throwing a skew with us getting a 5 m lineout; we had the chances to win that game but couldn't take them. So frustrating.
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@nzzp said in Worst AB Captain:
@BerniesCorner said in Worst AB Captain:
A pair of 7s 77
why stop there? We've had the 777 FFS
Fucking disaster it was, too
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Currently we haven't got a fetcher It needs sorting
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Ardie has played almost exclusively at no8 in 2020, 2021 & 2022. This is at SR and Test level. He hasn’t played regularly at 7 since 2019
Apparently keeping him in his regular position is playing him out of position & playing him out of position is not playing him out of position
If you want to move him - fine. I can see merit in that and it may well work. The out of position argument isn’t coherent when he’s been at 8 for so long and is playing well
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@nzzp I think our skills (seeming lack of) are just another symptom of the pressure these guys are under.
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@Duluth said in Worst AB Captain:
Ardie has played almost exclusively at no8 in 2020, 2021 & 2022. This is at SR and Test level. He hasn’t played regularly at 7 since 2019
Apparently keeping him in his regular position is playing him out of position & playing him out of position is not playing him out of position
If you want to move him - fine. I can see merit in that and it may well work. The out of position argument isn’t coherent when he’s been at 8 for so long and is playing well
And more to the point, he's playing well at 8. Even when the tight five goes completely missing like in the last 30mins.
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He would be even better at 7
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SW captain Keep to the thread please
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@BerniesCorner said in Worst AB Captain:
SW captain Keep to the thread please
It is on topic
Some were suggesting playing Savea out of position to replace Cane
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@Damo said in Worst AB Captain:
Cane does not appear to be an effective captain. Neither is he clearly the best in his position.
I would relieve him of the captaincy and give it to Ardie Savea. He strikes me as being the best in his position (no.8) and appears from the outside to be an inspirational leader. He is also the next cab off the rank as when Cane goes off he becomes captain.
I would do that immediately.
I would also bring in Dalton this week to play no 7 and see if that improves our back row balance.
I don't advocate dropping Cane entirely - just give him a week off and reassess.
Agree completely. Ardie or Whitelock are the only real options we have, and Whitelock is getting on in years so I'd give it to Ardie who probably has another 5+ years left in him at at the top level. Let him grow in the role.
The other obvious option is to move Ardie to 7 and bring Sotutu in at 8, that'd really help our balance. With Dalton on the bench we have good cover across all loose forward positions - Scooter, Dalton and Akira covering 6, Dalton and Ardie covering 7, Ardie, Sotutu and Akira covering 8.
