The Current State of Rugby
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@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@stodders but why are we so against non players giving advice/guidance? Doesn't bother me at all, unless it's halting play.
Yeah - my problem with it is that it IS halting play.
There has been some absolute piss-taking recently, with certain teams stopping play, and wanting "injury"-assistance and/or water - and listening to the medics/water-carriers quite blatantly passing on messages from coaches.Actually... why not have true "waterboys" (/girls)... kids carrying the water... neutral, no radio kits, just... doing the job description.
"Neutral medics" - I'd also like, but... harder sell. -
@Kruse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah - my problem with it is that it IS halting play.
Is it though? Or is a "injured" player just an opportunity to also depart observations/instructions? I agree on sorting out the "injuries", but wouldn't suggest these are completely around getting word in from up above - I can't see how there's that much in game knowledge to share so often!
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@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Kruse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah - my problem with it is that it IS halting play.
Is it though? Or is a "injured" player just an opportunity to also depart observations/instructions? I agree on sorting out the "injuries", but wouldn't suggest these are completely around getting word in from up above - I can't see how there's that much in game knowledge to share so often!
It's being used as a timeout when a period of play hasn't gone to plan and/or the biggest boys in the team are gassed. Fake an injury, stop play and the momentum the opposition was building, and get some messages from the coach about what to change. In American sports they allow for it and have a maximum number of timeouts each team can use. In rugby there's no structure around it so some teams are just taking the piss with stoppages every time they lose momentum and/or they are gassed. That's just bullshit, either allow teams to take time outs (thus encouraging larger and larger players with bigger collisions) or put a stop to it and keep the game flowing at a fast pace.
Obviously we in NZ prefer the faster game because that's what we've grown up with, whereas teams like SA, England and Ireland would prefer to be able to slow things down when they need to.
WR pays lip service to concussion issues while actively allowing teams that focus on raw power and bigger collisions to prosper.
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@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Kruse said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah - my problem with it is that it IS halting play.
Is it though? Or is a "injured" player just an opportunity to also depart observations/instructions? I agree on sorting out the "injuries", but wouldn't suggest these are completely around getting word in from up above - I can't see how there's that much in game knowledge to share so often!
Yeah - I think I see where you're coming from.... at the lower levels - coaches can yell shit from the sidelines, so... why can't the same thing somehow happen at test-level...?
And.... the "injury" method, just happens to also bring in stoppages, which is what we all (spectators, at least) want to stop...
So... is there a way of achieving that, without resorting to that ridiculous case of the saffa medic making backline calls from the sideline?
(And that's the problem, really, isn't it? At this level - 'everybody' is going to game whatever system is in place)Edit 1 : maybe the waterboys/girls ARE allowed to be wired to coaches, but... only during play, and only if they don't impact play, and players have to actively dis-engage from play to communicate, at their own risk? But... onside/offside rules? Maybe... the captain is allowed to run off the field to communicate with coaches/etc but only during play - so... it's a handicap to do so?
Edit 2: the more I read this thread, the more I understand how NFL happened. Nearly every "improvement" I can think of,, or that is being trialled... takes us closer to NFL. -
@Kruse I'm just trying to say - the "injuries" side of it needs to be sorted out, I'm completely on board with that. But who is saying what to "injured" players while being treated, I couldn't really gaf. If their players are too dumb to figure shit out for themselves, then have at it - but it's a separate issue for me.
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The over professionalism of High School rugby is a problem in my opinion. The rich schools getting better, the other schools losing players and some with no teams at all.
The unintended consequences of putting high school rugby on TV
A select few schools now dominate. The rest have all but given up. And rugby is worse off as a result.
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@mikedogz said in The Current State of Rugby:
The over professionalism of High School rugby is a problem in my opinion. The rich schools getting better, the other schools losing players and some with no teams at all.
Spot on. Late developers are late developers. Our pipeline of talent is worse than it used to be - and because it's not professionalism or bust, fringe players grab payouts and head overseas.
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@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mikedogz said in The Current State of Rugby:
The over professionalism of High School rugby is a problem in my opinion. The rich schools getting better, the other schools losing players and some with no teams at all.
Spot on. Late developers are late developers. Our pipeline of talent is worse than it used to be - and because it's not professionalism or bust, fringe players grab payouts and head overseas.
If Snake was playing now maybe he never gets found. I remember a story told to me by a work mate. When Ivan Cleary was coaching the Warriors his son Nathan couldn't even make the 2nd 15 at school. How did that pan out? I know he made it in league but who knows what he could have done in union. Him and others like him
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@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan I don't buy that. Bower is a prime example of what you're talking about. I realised yesterday that the "new lock" Hicks at the highlanders is 25!
I have no factual basis to back my statement up. Its purely anecdotal. Isn't that the Fern way?
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He doesn't even work for NZ Rugby, but Justin Nelson might be key to deciding the future of the sport in this country.
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@Machpants said in The Current State of Rugby:
He doesn't even work for NZ Rugby, but Justin Nelson might be key to deciding the future of the sport in this country.
Fascinating
Obviously knows what he's doing
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@Nepia said in The Current State of Rugby:
Not so sure I'm on board with everything he's saying - a lot of it is mimic what's happening in other sports that have completely different structures to NZ rugby.
To paraphrase him I'll go into hibernation if franchise rugby becomes the 365 focus.
He's talking extremes and I doubt very much if we will end up with drafts but there is tons of room for stats based analysis type broadcasts that can run post/pre season. Better comms and discussion around squad building (eg who is on/off contract with 'experts discussing gap filling options), injury talk. Fan buildup stuff etc. All the stuff that franchises and their SM flunkies are useless at. NZR aren't much better. They use media simply to put out a communication then walk away from any interaction.
What I take from that article is that this guy sees massive opportunities for content both during and outside of the playing season. Lots of it is stuff that we have all mentioned here and even try to create here ourselves. -
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Nepia said in The Current State of Rugby:
Not so sure I'm on board with everything he's saying - a lot of it is mimic what's happening in other sports that have completely different structures to NZ rugby.
To paraphrase him I'll go into hibernation if franchise rugby becomes the 365 focus.
He's talking extremes and I doubt very much if we will end up with drafts but there is tons of room for stats based analysis type broadcasts that can run post/pre season. Better comms and discussion around squad building (eg who is on/off contract with 'experts discussing gap filling options), injury talk. Fan buildup stuff etc. All the stuff that franchises and their SM flunkies are useless at. NZR aren't much better. They use media simply to put out a communication then walk away from any interaction.
What I take from that article is that this guy sees massive opportunities for content both during and outside of the playing season. Lots of it is stuff that we have all mentioned here and even try to create here ourselves.TBH, I think you're doing a lot of reading between the lines there. You can't talk about 365 and ignore the ABs and the NPC which is essentially what the article does (which may not reflect what was actually said in the interview). I don't want franchise rugby in my face between now and say October when the teams are named, but I do want NPC and ABs in my face.
If he can improve that type of engagement (marketing/SM for all comps/teams) that we all do complain about then all good, but that article is franchise rugby focused.
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Here's hoping he drags NZR into the 21st century with creating fan content to keep people engaged, informed and wanting to attend games.
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Bloody interesting read, not sure how much I agree ir disagree with, but would probably need to read it a few more times. Mind you I don't think he aiming it at a few of us, if like me a rusted on fans anyway. I don't want too much change and as Nepia say, certainly don't want franchise rugby all season, maybe because NPC is my favourite comp anyway. But I would sure NZR etc is not going to survive with just us lot, one of reasons I think women's game is so important to the game.
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Article is good. I doubt if it will lead to this being addressed. Because at present the ongoing Crusaders dominance is bad for SRP. And its got much worse in recent years. And its getting boring now. One way to address this is to give the weaker teams more money. Rather than the opposite now with the stronger teams in effect getting a lot more money to pay their players when they become ABs
Aust having too many teams is another issue. I don't really see an answer though but NZ could start by trying something to have 5 teams when every fan thinks their side has a chance of winning (as it was 6 years back for NZ sides but not Aussie sides. At present as a Hurricanes fan I believe my team hasn't a hope in hell of winning. Likewise most Aussie teams and the Highlanders. And the Chiefs and Blues have only a small chance.
Nelson says sporting utopia is reached when every fan thinks their side has a chance of winning, but the challenge is to convince those who are used to unfettered success that dominance is bad for business. “You can be a winning business without winning the title. If you build a winning business you’re building sustainability and a destination. You build a story and a solid future. “That was the most important message I had to get across to the NBL teams when I arrived. Domination wasn’t good for business, it wasn’t good for commerciality, it wasn’t good for viewership or fans in the stands.” Are you reading, Crusaders fans? -
Weird, I don't find the Crusader dominace boring. What's wrong with you lot?
