All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
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@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial that's always been the way though, the next big thing is always round the corner.
McCaw hit the field running, it was his leadership moreso that he took time with.
No way was early McCaw anywhere near prime McCaw and I remember the times when everyone was saying he was done and past it as well.
Whitelock has been past it for the last 5 years on and off.Point is that we admire the shape and job ownership of teams like Ireland but that is made a lot easier when you aren't ditching good players because another one catches your eye. The really really good ones will stand out but we often seem to think 'that guy might do better'.
Class is obvious and needs to be introduced but how many average 6s have we tried by searching. If no single class player is around then stick with the one guy that plays the way of the gameplan and let them develop IMO.
I think that is what they were wanting to do with Frizzel which is why he has been rushed back in as soon as available.
Injuries in these 'unsolved' areas like 6 and midfield really haven't helped but we also seem to get in a tangle.
What happens when ALB comes back. He is the class midfielder. Rieko has put all his chips on 13 and we are currently investing in others at 12. I'm not sure that Rieko back to wing is anything more than a short term thing anyway as he isn't far from hitting the wing cliff that so many others have.RTS, ALB, Ioane, DMac and Jordan could be a world class lethal backline if the rest of the team is firing but I doubt we'll ever see it.
Hold on, where is the Canterbury mafia here?
Of course early McCaw wasn't the absolute best player in the world McCaw, but McCaw was also MOTM in his first international game. It was clear that he was the future and the was established as the best 7 in NZ within his first season. To even compare that to Frizell is stretching the longest of bows here.
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McCaw pushed out a very good, experienced, 7. It seemed bizarre at the time, but went on to be the right decision.
Frizzell can't even get a nailed in spot in a side searching for the right 6.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial that's always been the way though, the next big thing is always round the corner.
McCaw hit the field running, it was his leadership moreso that he took time with.
No way was early McCaw anywhere near prime McCaw and I remember the times when everyone was saying he was done and past it as well.
Whitelock has been past it for the last 5 years on and off.Point is that we admire the shape and job ownership of teams like Ireland but that is made a lot easier when you aren't ditching good players because another one catches your eye. The really really good ones will stand out but we often seem to think 'that guy might do better'.
Class is obvious and needs to be introduced but how many average 6s have we tried by searching. If no single class player is around then stick with the one guy that plays the way of the gameplan and let them develop IMO.
I think that is what they were wanting to do with Frizzel which is why he has been rushed back in as soon as available.
Injuries in these 'unsolved' areas like 6 and midfield really haven't helped but we also seem to get in a tangle.
What happens when ALB comes back. He is the class midfielder. Rieko has put all his chips on 13 and we are currently investing in others at 12. I'm not sure that Rieko back to wing is anything more than a short term thing anyway as he isn't far from hitting the wing cliff that so many others have.RTS, ALB, Ioane, DMac and Jordan could be a world class lethal backline if the rest of the team is firing but I doubt we'll ever see it.
Hold on, where is the Canterbury mafia here?
Of course early McCaw wasn't the absolute best player in the world McCaw, but McCaw was also MOTM in his first international game. It was clear that he was the future and the was established as the best 7 in NZ within his first season. To even compare that to Frizell is stretching the longest of bows here.
To think I am comparing him with Frizell is an even longer bow.
The point was that sometimes a finished product is worth investing time in. If you think you can see that you can improve a player to a top level then stop looking for something better.
Happy to join the wonder that they see this in Frizell but maybe they are closer to the smaller detail.
MCCaw was only used as an example that lots of players improve with time. He had some early performances that were less than stellar especially before he found his invisibility cloak. Penalties in the infamous caketin loss to the poms were an example IIRC. -
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@gt12 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial that's always been the way though, the next big thing is always round the corner.
McCaw hit the field running, it was his leadership moreso that he took time with.
No way was early McCaw anywhere near prime McCaw and I remember the times when everyone was saying he was done and past it as well.
Whitelock has been past it for the last 5 years on and off.Point is that we admire the shape and job ownership of teams like Ireland but that is made a lot easier when you aren't ditching good players because another one catches your eye. The really really good ones will stand out but we often seem to think 'that guy might do better'.
Class is obvious and needs to be introduced but how many average 6s have we tried by searching. If no single class player is around then stick with the one guy that plays the way of the gameplan and let them develop IMO.
I think that is what they were wanting to do with Frizzel which is why he has been rushed back in as soon as available.
Injuries in these 'unsolved' areas like 6 and midfield really haven't helped but we also seem to get in a tangle.
What happens when ALB comes back. He is the class midfielder. Rieko has put all his chips on 13 and we are currently investing in others at 12. I'm not sure that Rieko back to wing is anything more than a short term thing anyway as he isn't far from hitting the wing cliff that so many others have.RTS, ALB, Ioane, DMac and Jordan could be a world class lethal backline if the rest of the team is firing but I doubt we'll ever see it.
Hold on, where is the Canterbury mafia here?
Of course early McCaw wasn't the absolute best player in the world McCaw, but McCaw was also MOTM in his first international game. It was clear that he was the future and the was established as the best 7 in NZ within his first season. To even compare that to Frizell is stretching the longest of bows here.
To think I am comparing him with Frizell is an even longer bow.
The point was that sometimes a finished product is worth investing time in. If you think you can see that you can improve a player to a top level then stop looking for something better.
Happy to join the wonder that they see this in Frizell but maybe they are closer to the smaller detail.
MCCaw was only used as an example that lots of players improve with time. He had some early performances that were less than stellar especially before he found his invisibility cloak. Penalties in the infamous caketin loss to the poms were an example IIRC.We did not lose that day because of McCaw.
if you want to make this analogy, you could at least try to use Kaino, who wasn't the answer, then was. But the ridiculousness of comparison Frizell to Kaino is apparent as well.
If I had to compare him to someone, it would be Patty T, who at Super level can do a job, and looks to have the physical gifts, but for whatever reason just can't do that job at Test level. It could be that Pat T has never had the consistent selection and if selected might show that form over time. That's the closest I can get to explaining the continued chances of Frizell.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
RTS, ALB, Ioane, DMac and Jordan could be a world class lethal backline if the rest of the team is firing but I doubt we'll ever see it.
There's a fair bit to be proven at test level with that combo - 12 RTS; 14 DMac; 15 Jordan.
Add in Smith and Barrett/Mo'unga and it's a bit on the small side.
I don't mind Jordie at 15 as a big body to truck the ball up (I'm still in no rush to push Will into 15). Caleb Clark might help with that as well, but if Rieko is sent back to the wing, Caleb only makes the bench at best.
All moot while ALB (and Goodhue?) is out in any case. Quite possible that those two are the preferred midfield and I can't even tell you who plays in which jersey!
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
RTS, ALB, Ioane, DMac and Jordan could be a world class lethal backline if the rest of the team is firing but I doubt we'll ever see it.
> There's a fair bit to be proven at test level with that combo - 12 RTS; 14 DMac; 15 Jordan.
Add in Smith and Barrett/Mo'unga and it's a bit on the small side.
I don't mind Jordie at 15 as a big body to truck the ball up (I'm still in no rush to push Will into 15). Caleb Clark might help with that as well, but if Rieko is sent back to the wing, Caleb only makes the bench at best.
All moot while ALB (and Goodhue?) is out in any case. Quite possible that those two are the preferred midfield and I can't even tell you who plays in which jersey!
I doubt it would even be seen but give those guys clean front foot ball and it would be fun to watch.
Clean front foot ball also seems a dream these days. -
This is an innocent question but is Goodhue an international-level 12? Loved him at 13 (great rugby brain and distribution) but he was slowish at international level before his injuries and I heard early reports he was taking awhile to adjust to 12-and I haven't seen the Crusader games..
So, serious question, has he looked amongst the frontrunners at 12? (Given he seems to have lost even more speed I assume he is not a frontrunner at 13). -
@Kirwan said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The solution is not to pick mediocre players who have been given years of chances and been found wanting.
And that was during a period of our tight five being pretty good. Picking him now, without fixing the tight five is going to expose his flaws even more.
And that’s without getting into his flaws as a human being.
I assume this was aimed at me. I dunno. But for the broken record, I am an Akira fan (seem to see him more as an 8 but hey). But he is a confidence player, and needs to be motivated and he needs a better fit with team strategy (as in, the current team strategy sucks big hairy lemons).
But when it comes to the ABs I'd rather they sort out the team than have my fave players dragged down by an albatross coach and rugby board.
So I'm not going to argue Shannon vs Akira. I prefer Akira but it is a small cut rather than a big one. -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
RTS, ALB, Ioane, DMac and Jordan could be a world class lethal backline if the rest of the team is firing but I doubt we'll ever see it.
There's a fair bit to be proven at test level with that combo - 12 RTS; 14 DMac; 15 Jordan.
Add in Smith and Barrett/Mo'unga and it's a bit on the small side.
I don't mind Jordie at 15 as a big body to truck the ball up (I'm still in no rush to push Will into 15). Caleb Clark might help with that as well, but if Rieko is sent back to the wing, Caleb only makes the bench at best.
All moot while ALB (and Goodhue?) is out in any case. Quite possible that those two are the preferred midfield and I can't even tell you who plays in which jersey!
BB, RTS, ALB, Ioane, DMac and Jordan
-the only small guy there is DMac. RTS is nearly 100 kg and a six footer. As big or bigger than Crotty (who could play at 13!). Havilli is 1-2cm taller but lighter. -
@nostrildamus who knows, by all accounts he wasnt 100% when he came back, close, but not 100 and got exposed a couple of times.
I expect closer in at 12, may be less of an issue, when he did play there he was still doing work on defence and cleaning/securing rucks (which is a role he does a bit at 12 and 13)
Like everything though, it all comes back to the game plan and how these guys are meant to play, hopefully Schmidt will add some structure and reduce the reliance on x-factor and big plays.
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@nostrildamus You can run 108kg Samu Kerevi at four or five guys in that backline who are going to be giving him 10+kg. Or a forward - close to the line that size advantage will be decisive - e.g. Porter vs Tupaea in the 2nd test
As a unit for me it is "a bit on the small side".
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@nostrildamus You can run 108kg Samu Kerevi at four or five guys in that backline who are going to be giving him 10+kg. Or a forward - close to the line that size advantage will be decisive - e.g. Porter vs Tupaea in the 2nd test
As a unit for me it is "a bit on the small side".
Kerevi still goes down against smaller players as proved in the Sevens.
So where are these big backs you want? -
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial We could go Clarke, ALB, Rieko, Jordan, Jordie.
Big and fast and I think four of those five should be locked in.
Yeah I was just thinking you kind of have to have Jordie at 12, (perhaps you are a) closet Canes supporter!!
But Ben Smith wasn't huge and he did ok against bigger, taller blokes.
Then there was Sammy T... -
@nostrildamus It's not just individuals, but also the unit - and the potential to lose consecutive collisions.
Crucial's selection isn't beyond the realms of possibility, but it's smaller than I think is ideal.
In theory, I like Jordie at 12 because he gives us a big body there - an option we don't really have otherwise (we can also get a medium-sized Goodhue or Tupaea at 12). For the record, I'm sure Jordie is now 105+kgs.
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Akira has been one of the shining lights of the ABs recently. He was instrumental in getting us back in the game against the French last year - he, ST and SB starting hitting it up close in and got us awesome go forward. For me he's the incumbent 6, and I'd be shocked if they were to pick the failed Frizzel ahead of him. I'd say they see Frizzel as someone who technically has similar physical attributes to Akira (though has never shown it at test level) so could cover in case of injury.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I'd be shocked if they were to pick the failed Frizzel ahead of him
unfortunately i would not
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I'd be shocked if they were to pick the failed Frizzel ahead of him
unfortunately i would not
me neither, i would almost put money on friz starting
