All Blacks 2022
-
He doesn't always go for the held up. I don't think there is another loose forward that stop the opposition momentum as good as him close to the line. Defensive strength post contact slows everything down on attack
It'd be nice if some of the tight five joined in every now and then
-
Thought that was a breakout game by Akira. He and Savea were the best AB forwards out there. All we need now is a No.8 to complement them.
-
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
He doesn't always go for the held up. I don't think there is another loose forward that stop the opposition momentum as good as him close to the line. Defensive strength post contact slows everything down on attack
It'd be nice if some of the tight five joined in every now and then
I saw BBBR putting in heaps of work. Pity that the other four were tasked with standing in pods or staying wide.
-
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
tasked with standing in pods or staying wide.
lots of the first half looked like U12s with kicking. everyone avoiding the ruck and getting themselves in position to do a run by themselves.
-
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
If I had to pick one thing that gives me this impression it would be that I rarely see a hard shoulder from him in close. He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess.
This also applies to his running style with the ball.
He likes to jink just prior to contact rather than run straight and hard and blast through. Not saying it isn't effective sometimes (like the last game), but it appears he has the size and power to be a direct runner. -
@Frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
If I had to pick one thing that gives me this impression it would be that I rarely see a hard shoulder from him in close. He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess.
This also applies to his running style with the ball.
He likes to jink just prior to contact rather than run straight and hard and blast through. Not saying it isn't effective sometimes (like the last game), but it appears he has the size and power to be a direct runner.I consider that a bonus. Plenty of people run hard into solid walls these days, taking steps into contact onto a soft shoulder can make it easier to get over the advantage line.
Our defence just makes the opposition look better than they really are. In fact I'd say we'd be amongst the easiest teams to make metres against in the middle of the field. Yet on our own line we show amazing intent, so that's a problem with the structure we employ.
-
spaces not faces is a thing. Running very hard directly in to people is so 1990s
-
@mariner4life plus if you run at the gap, it forces 2 players to make a decision.
-
@mariner4life I remember Mealamu being much praised for his pre-contact footwork.
-
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life I remember Mealamu being much praised for his pre-contact footwork.
i stopped playing over a decade ago and all our coaching even then was around pre-contact footwork to find weak shoulders or get between players.
-
Timing of the footwork is so important though. If you de-power to run at a shoulder then you aren't as dominant. Running hard with a change of direction timed to keep power through the tackle is great and a skill not enough of our players have.
I actually think this was something Foster even alluded to when he talked about small skills and why Strawbridge was brought in. It's the type of thing that Byrne used to be so good at instilling in our players. -
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Timing of the footwork is so important though. If you de-power to run at a shoulder then you aren't as dominant. Running hard with a change of direction timed to keep power through the tackle is great and a skill not enough of our players have.
I actually think this was something Foster even alluded to when he talked about small skills and why Strawbridge was brought in. It's the type of thing that Byrne used to be so good at instilling in our players.Ngani Laumape would be pretty good at that right about now.
-
@Crucial problem is, why are players getting to the elite level and not having these skills, or needing them refreshed?
As @mariner4life says, is something that is pretty basic, fast feet and timing of the step is important on attack as it is when going in to make a tackle, something you teach kids.
-
I think Akira and Ardie’s play is part of the problem. So much of what they do seems so individual. They make a good run - where’s the support to take an offload or clean? They make a great tackle or hold up, where’s the support to drive over the tackle?
We see glimpses of it, all too rare from my viewing. Most of their individual good work becomes fruitless and just that - individual. For fans in the post mortem we point to stats and this and that on those individuals as part of a bunkering down exercise 😀
For me what it boils down to is the trust within the group seems fractured from a playing perspective. I’m not talking about getting along and being best buds and all that, but respect for team mate and what they bring, understanding of their strengths and even their vulnerabilities. Knowing what they do in certain situations.
There was a passage where we had made a decent albeit a little disjointed phase play up and into our 22. After several phases (without an error) we fanned way too many players out on the left side of the field. Smith clears the ball and we have 4 guys all ready to take it. No decoy runner, just guys waiting to catch it. Cane received it and the defence was able to easily read it and we lost any momentum from the build up.
We’ve lost cohesion.
-
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial problem is, why are players getting to the elite level and not having these skills, or needing them refreshed?
As @mariner4life says, is something that is pretty basic, fast feet and timing of the step is important on attack as it is when going in to make a tackle, something you teach kids.
I think you have partly answered your own question. Players that dominate through size/speed rather than technique (before the guns come out I am not targeting Ioane here) don't get coached in these aspects until the need becomes evident as the players understandably keep doing what works for them. The imbalances in our age grade rugby have to be rectified later.
This applies to lots of our game, especially 10s with great speed off the mark and footwork. They almost have to re;earn how to play at higher levels. -
@ACT-Crusader that's a pretty good post you sensible bastard
Everything good is individual stuff. Ardie's two tries in the first. Reece's try in the first. Hell, all 3 tries in this test were guys taking it upon themselves to do something amazing.
Is there a sense that no one is willing to do the selfless thing to help the side? I look at Ardie knocking on a couple of times trying a frantic pick and go, rather than just sealing the ball and allowing play to develop elsewhere (he's not the only one, and i don't want to pick holes in a good game, but they were glaring examples of released pressure).
-
@mariner4life some players are obviously feeling the pressure more than others. Senior players most likely.
I doubt Ardie reads the Fern, but if you do uso (that’s my Sonny Bill commentary for the day), you are a hell of an athlete and a smart footy player, but it doesn’t always have to be the big play! And how about a move to 2nd 5 😉
-
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
There was one run by Akira where he attracted three defenders, made ground and got the team moving forwards. Vaai comes in for the cleanout and just falls over and we get turned over.
Our tight forwards are powder puffs.
I wouldn't say our tight forwards are powder puffs, but our clean out execution in general is woeful. Either go off their feet (falling or flying torpedo), turn up far too late, taking people way beyond what is deemed acceptable and the list goes on. There were a heap of clean outs missed.
Sure the execution is on the players, but this is basic core skills coaching that appears to be missing as it is all to frequent from this current team.
-
@bayimports said in All Blacks 2022:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2022:
There was one run by Akira where he attracted three defenders, made ground and got the team moving forwards. Vaai comes in for the cleanout and just falls over and we get turned over.
Our tight forwards are powder puffs.
I wouldn't say our tight forwards are powder puffs, but our clean out execution in general is woeful. Either go off their feet (falling or flying torpedo), turn up far too late, taking people way beyond what is deemed acceptable and the list goes on. There were a heap of clean outs missed.
Sure the execution is on the players, but this is basic core skills coaching that appears to be missing as it is all to frequent from this current team.
Yeah, it's pretty much like the breakdown is not even an afterthought, it's a non-thought and the players have zero idea what to do or who will do it. Hence you get a random coming in flying from nowhere each time, who completely missies anyone anyway and is so inaccurate the ref just ignores him because all he's done is land two metres off to the side of the ruck on the opposition side, where no one is. Then you get a tight forward standing as a pillar to the side of an unprotected ruck, and a back looking, deciding whether they need to clean out, then deciding yes once the opposition have already walked onto our side, running in and immediately going backwards.
