Chiefs vs Wales, June 14

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="587998" data-time="1465931753">
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I know it's a generation or so since they were common, but can't believe some people are commenting about "pointless" midweek matches... 
That a couple of very key players had to back up suggests the squad wasn't deep enough/thought through well enough. Again, the mug in the coaching box might have to answer to that one.
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Midweek games were one of the highlights of proper tours. A chance to blood players not in a test arena, and to get out to proper heartland rugby areas that don't have big stadia. I'm all for them - they can be fantastic if done well.
 
The issue here is a short tour and small squad. Modern rugby is now a 23 man game, not 15, and this bites modern squads. 15 of 30 is so much easier than 23 of 35. And you get stuck on the back end becuase you don't have time to push the tour out and play non-tests on saturdays.
 
This is why you should all go and buy as many midweek tickets for the Lions as you can. They are the last of the big tours. Personally, I'm planning to go to 4 provincial games and 2-3 tests

Bovidae

I'm going to stick up for Gatland here. From the comments I've read a lot of the fringe players where asking him what they needed to do to force their way into the test team. This game was the perfect opportunity for those players to prove they were good enough - they failed.
 
It's a long way to come to only hold tackle bags so I can fully understand the rationale behind the fixture from Wales' POV. If the tour was only going to be the 3 tests then either Wales should have reduced the squad from 35 to 26 or be prepared to give everyone a chance vs the ABs. This was a compromise.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="587984" data-time="1465919940">
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Dave Rennie again proving his superiority over his peers with this comprehensive win.
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Well he's certainly a better coach than Gatland :)

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="588017" data-time="1465936610">
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I'm going to stick up for Gatland here. From the comments I've read a lot of the fringe players where asking him what they needed to do to force their way into the test team. This game was the perfect opportunity for those players to prove they were good enough - they failed.
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Did you hear his quote? Something like a lot of players have asked me personally why they aren't being selected and what they need to do to get into the test team. They should go and look in the mirror and face some hard truths.
 
I can't easily find the quote online - someone please help out
 
 
Edit:<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/06/14/wales-fringe-players-need-to-take-a-hard-look-at-themselves-says/'>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/06/14/wales-fringe-players-need-to-take-a-hard-look-at-themselves-says/</a>
Players have been asking me for an opportunity and asking me why they havenâ€™t been selected. There are some very simple answers. They have got to be honest about looking themselves in the mirror. Weâ€™ve got to do the same as coaches.â€

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="588017" data-time="1465936610">
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I'm going to stick up for Gatland here. From the comments I've read a lot of the fringe players where asking him what they needed to do to force their way into the test team. This game was the perfect opportunity for those players to prove they were good enough - they failed.
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I'd stick up for him if his team had a game plan that looked like something other than a parody of Blackadder goes Forth parodying WWI - run ponderously straight into the opposition with the ball (and also without it). Some of that may be down to the plays, but by the comments of our Welsh posters, there's also a few players sitting back at home in Wales who might have been able to play differently - yet don't fit the Gats mould.

sparky

Great win for Dave Rennie and the Chiefs.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="587938" data-time="1465899035">
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Brendan Gallagher ... thought this was good:
 
Gatland criticised 4 arranging Waikato game.Bollox Midweek thumping in NZ great reality check and rites of passage for most British players!
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You're still following that troll MR, glutton for punishment aye ;).
 
Although, you were around to show us the one time he managed to remove his head from his his arse and say something interesting.

Hooroo

Awesome interview with Steve Hansen on the Radio this morning saying Beaver is being considered for the 4 Nations squad.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.........I can't back that up

Chris B.

To be fair to Gatland, I doubt that he spent a lot of time intensively preparing this team for this match. He'll have run out a scratch team of Welshmen. On the other hand - Rennie's had two weeks to prepare his men for this clash.
 
It's got a few shades of this 2007 game against the Munster 2nd XV, which the ABs 2nds were well on the way to losing but for the cavalry on the bench.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2164'>http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2164</a>

Chubby13

How bad were the chiefs injuries last night? Graham etc?

Bovidae

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="588034" data-time="1465940571">
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I'd stick up for him if his team had a game plan that looked like something other than a parody of Blackadder goes Forth parodying WWI - run ponderously straight into the opposition with the ball (and also without it). Some of that may be down to the plays, but by the comments of our Welsh posters, there's also a few players sitting back at home in Wales who might have been able to play differently - yet don't fit the Gats mould. 
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It's hard to know what is going on. I know everyone likes to label Wales as playing Warrenball based on how Wasps played, and the more direct style of Wales now. Perhaps it comes down to the cattle he has. When Gatland coached Waikato to win the 2006 NPC they did adopt the rush defence but the backs scored a bucket load of tries.
 
Speaking of the rush defence, surely Shaun Edwards must be under pressure? Wales have leaked tries in their last 3 games.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="588023" data-time="1465938494">
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Well he's certainly a better coach than Gatland :)
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I was thinking about that, Dave Rennie would have been quietly smiling to himself as his stocks up north continue to rise.

Paekakboyz

I could have run faster than half that Welsh backline ffs. The word ponderous has been used already and it is spot on - aside from the odd crash ball from a good angle the backs looks shite. Almost seemed like the Welsh were planning to do an AB's to the chiefs, stay in touch and then amp things up through the back end of the match. Except no one told the chiefs who if anything increased their intensity as the game went on.
 
Good on Gatland for pushing back about fringe/bench players asking why they aren't starting or in the squad. He must be gutted they rolled over so easily and looked so ineffective.

taniwharugby

huge blow to the team confidence though, first leading the ABs for 3/4 of the match and then getting reamed by an understrength Chiefs team...gonna be a huge ask to get back up against an AB team with much, much more room to improve than the Welsh appear to have.

Provincial Stalwart

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="588057" data-time="1465943903">
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It's hard to know what is going on. I know everyone likes to label Wales as playing Warrenball based on how Wasps played, and the more direct style of Wales now. Perhaps it comes down to the cattle he has. When Gatland coached Waikato to win the 2006 NPC they did adopt the rush defence but the backs scored a bucket load of tries.
 
Speaking of the rush defence, surely Shaun Edwards must be under pressure? Wales have leaked tries in their last 3 games.
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Yeah, but they were playing the three best teams in the world. insert smiley face

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="588170" data-time="1465954942">
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huge blow to the team confidence though, first leading the ABs for 3/4 of the match and then getting reamed by an understrength Chiefs team...gonna be a huge ask to get back up against an AB team with much, much more room to improve than the Welsh appear to have.
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I think the first choice players for Wales will be okay. The Welsh forwards were pretty good albeit a little inaccurate and the backs needed to insert themselves more in the game in the 2nd half. I think they've got some improvement in them. The biggest thing for them is defensively dealing with the AB fresh legs in the final quarter.

Higgins

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="588208" data-time="1465961779">
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I think the first choice players for Wales will be okay. The Welsh forwards were pretty good albeit a little inaccurate and the backs needed to insert themselves more in the game in the 2nd half. I think they've got some improvement in them. The biggest thing for them is defensively dealing with the AB fresh legs in the final quarter.
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Scarily for Wales so too do the All Blacks, probably more so if brutal reality is faced.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Higgins" data-cid="588215" data-time="1465962613">
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Scarily for Wales so too do the All Blacks, probably more so if brutal reality is faced.
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I agree, it appears both sides have some improvement. The interest will be if both sides can actually do it.
 
A lot of AB supporters have thought we didn't play well, first test rust and we'll definitely get better in the second test. I tend to think that we will have to be patient as players gain more experience with each other. I watched the test again last night and both in the forwards and the backs we were missing those little things that I guess were taken for granted over a number of years - running consistent effective support lines, competing at the breakdown in pods of two or three, straighten/draw/pass. Those things aren't all fixable overnight because it's about knowing what the guy next to you instinctively does in certain situations. 
 
I remember McCaw saying about Rodders "I've become used to him being there and doing what he's always done". That familiarity can bring with it great confidence.

Crash

Ok - I'm confused.
Haven't watched all the game yet, but from what I saw of Wales it was men against boys. Body language said it all.
They were beaten and got beaten up.
However given our next opponent at the u20s is Wales, and they only lost to Ireland by a few points at the death - the obvious disconnect is; what happens to age grades in NH between u20s and the seniors?
And why is our position reversed i.e. we don't seem to compete as well at u20 stage as the NH?

Higgins

I an not sure what you are inferring Crash as our record at the Under 20s is still far superior to all others. Granted we have lost a few more games than we as New Zealanders are accustomed to but overall we are still streets ahead of every other contender. Perhaps it is these last few years when our normal rugby dominance has not been what it usually is?
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rugby_Under_20_Championship#Team_records'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rugby_Under_20_Championship#Team_records</a>

The Silver Fern

Chiefs vs Wales, June 14