All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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I definitely want to make it clear that my post wasn't about bitching about the "cheating Irish" or anything like that, this is a really clear example of Foster and co being out coached again. Poor defensive structure and our players making bad decisions when faced with a pretty standard play, albeit pushed to the limit with the ball carrier taking the pass just outside the shoulder of the second dummy runner. If that's legal, common and effective, why are we not doing it? We instead just fire the ball to a forward 10m from the ruck 5m behind the advantage line and hope for the best.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
i really feel we're dangerously close to just being whingers...if that bad man hadn't tackled me i would have run all the way and scored....he's allowed to tackle you....well he shouldn't be!
if other teams are doing things withing the rules and we're not...thats on us
Whether a dummy runner has an impact shouldn't just be a physical impact thing, it should also take into account taking up space and blocking visibility.
really?...so no plays allowed behind the scrum? how about the halfback behind a lineout when they pass it back to the wing to connect with the hooker? those are all about not exactly seeing whats going on
Did you not read the very next words "Rugby will always have players in front of the ball"?
If you take what is happening to extremes a team could run 4 players ahead of the ball who link together and form a semi circle around a defender effectively taking them out of the game. It would look extremely silly but wouldn't be a hell of a lot different to what is currently allowed. The laws however and being judged as written.
**A player is offside in open play if that player is in front of a team-mate who is carrying the ball or who last played it. An offside player must not interfere with play. This includes:
Playing the ball.
Tackling the ball-carrier.Preventing the opposition from playing as they wish
IMO if a player cannot run the line they would prefer to because an attacker without the ball is blocking that line then that is obstruction.
NB: this doesn't apply to LF. he's ball watching and should be better.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I definitely want to make it clear that my post wasn't about bitching about the "cheating Irish" or anything like that, this is a really clear example of Foster and co being out coached again. Poor defensive structure and our players making bad decisions when faced with a pretty standard play, albeit pushed to the limit with the ball carrier taking the pass just outside the shoulder of the second dummy runner. If that's legal, common and effective, why are we not doing it? We instead just fire the ball to a forward 10m from the ruck 5m behind the advantage line and hope for the best.
what should really piss you off is Ireland have attacked like this for a while now...
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I definitely want to make it clear that my post wasn't about bitching about the "cheating Irish" or anything like that, this is a really clear example of Foster and co being out coached again. Poor defensive structure and our players making bad decisions when faced with a pretty standard play, albeit pushed to the limit with the ball carrier taking the pass just outside the shoulder of the second dummy runner. If that's legal, common and effective, why are we not doing it? We instead just fire the ball to a forward 10m from the ruck 5m behind the advantage line and hope for the best.
what should really piss you off is Ireland have attacked like this for a while now...
As do England,and we still can't work it out after playing against it a number of times.
Ah well back to the coaches box, Lets get donuts is the catch cry. -
@Chris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I definitely want to make it clear that my post wasn't about bitching about the "cheating Irish" or anything like that, this is a really clear example of Foster and co being out coached again. Poor defensive structure and our players making bad decisions when faced with a pretty standard play, albeit pushed to the limit with the ball carrier taking the pass just outside the shoulder of the second dummy runner. If that's legal, common and effective, why are we not doing it? We instead just fire the ball to a forward 10m from the ruck 5m behind the advantage line and hope for the best.
what should really piss you off is Ireland have attacked like this for a while now...
As do England,and we still can't work it out after playing against it a number of times.
Ah well back to the coaches box, Lets get donuts is the catch cry.I guess Fozzie doesn't watch game film on his laptop....
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@Derm-McCrum said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Well, that's all 7 million of us done for so.
I thought around 3 billion seem to claim Irish ancestry?!
There aren't that many rude NZers they say but I seem to have met them all.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The few Irish supporters I have met were great guys. And love the ABs
I’ve even met some Poms I’ve gotten on with in real life.
Shit I even married one, but she's says she's Cornish but not English
The further south you go the Cornier and Cornier they get.
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I don't know why people are so down. There could well be another COVID wave to wash over the coaches, hopefully around RWC time.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 see i dont think theyre stopping him making the right decision....theyre just presenting several options and that confuses LF...which is on him
I think the second runner is directly blocking his ability to be able to make a tackle. That's not a decision, that's an impact.
I'll add to this by saying that we should hire the very best league attack coach there is and give them free rein to use blocking runners until we get pulled up for it. The only way to get this changed is for us to take it to the nth degree. That's on our coaching team and is a big clap to the NH coaches.
ah, do you watch NRL? all Leicester has to do there is run in to the lead guy and that is getting called back for obstruction. Often league goes too far in rubbing tries out.
absolutely M4L is right here, league went down this exact path because of that concern and now mandate every pass must go to the outside shoulder every time. Now in principle this sounds ok, but if you watch league, you will now see defenders feigning they were impeded even if there was no way they would stop the movement and the play/try gets pulled up. It can work, but you still get players/coaches bending whatever rules you set.
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@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 see i dont think theyre stopping him making the right decision....theyre just presenting several options and that confuses LF...which is on him
I think the second runner is directly blocking his ability to be able to make a tackle. That's not a decision, that's an impact.
I'll add to this by saying that we should hire the very best league attack coach there is and give them free rein to use blocking runners until we get pulled up for it. The only way to get this changed is for us to take it to the nth degree. That's on our coaching team and is a big clap to the NH coaches.
ah, do you watch NRL? all Leicester has to do there is run in to the lead guy and that is getting called back for obstruction. Often league goes too far in rubbing tries out.
absolutely M4L is right here, league went down this exact path because of that concern and now mandate every pass must go to the outside shoulder every time. Now in principle this sounds ok, but if you watch league, you will now see defenders feigning they were impeded even if there was no way they would stop the movement and the play/try gets pulled up. It can work, but you still get players/coaches bending whatever rules you set.
I don't watch much league, but isn't that better than what we have now?
It's an honest question as league (from what I have seen lately) still gets some really nice tries with heaps of bodies in motion and isn't just blocking runners all over the shop.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I definitely want to make it clear that my post wasn't about bitching about the "cheating Irish" or anything like that, this is a really clear example of Foster and co being out coached again. Poor defensive structure and our players making bad decisions when faced with a pretty standard play, albeit pushed to the limit with the ball carrier taking the pass just outside the shoulder of the second dummy runner. If that's legal, common and effective, why are we not doing it? We instead just fire the ball to a forward 10m from the ruck 5m behind the advantage line and hope for the best.
what should really piss you off is Ireland have attacked like this for a while now...
I remember way back when the Wallabies started doing this and everyone got upset. Then we started doing it and the NH got even more upset.
Now that other nations are doing it, it seems everyone's happy and I'm not upset about it (broadly speaking) if it helps unlock modern defences. And good on Ireland for being skilled enough and well coached enough to make defenders make bad decisions.
What I do have an issue with is when runners continue forward into the defensive line and obstruct defenders without being penalised.
Oh and Mcleod's inability to coach defence.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 see i dont think theyre stopping him making the right decision....theyre just presenting several options and that confuses LF...which is on him
I think the second runner is directly blocking his ability to be able to make a tackle. That's not a decision, that's an impact.
I'll add to this by saying that we should hire the very best league attack coach there is and give them free rein to use blocking runners until we get pulled up for it. The only way to get this changed is for us to take it to the nth degree. That's on our coaching team and is a big clap to the NH coaches.
ah, do you watch NRL? all Leicester has to do there is run in to the lead guy and that is getting called back for obstruction. Often league goes too far in rubbing tries out.
absolutely M4L is right here, league went down this exact path because of that concern and now mandate every pass must go to the outside shoulder every time. Now in principle this sounds ok, but if you watch league, you will now see defenders feigning they were impeded even if there was no way they would stop the movement and the play/try gets pulled up. It can work, but you still get players/coaches bending whatever rules you set.
I don't watch much league, but isn't that better than what we have now?
It's an honest question as league (from what I have seen lately) still gets some really nice tries with heaps of bodies in motion and isn't just blocking runners all over the shop.
I think the point is you will always have players/coaches bending rules whatever you set. As long as you're ok with genuinely legitimate tries being ruled out then its ok. Lots of people even in the league community are 50/50 on that one. To be honest I don't mind it because you still get some great tries and the rule is clear, but I still like the flow rugby has in this area.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I definitely want to make it clear that my post wasn't about bitching about the "cheating Irish" or anything like that, this is a really clear example of Foster and co being out coached again. Poor defensive structure and our players making bad decisions when faced with a pretty standard play, albeit pushed to the limit with the ball carrier taking the pass just outside the shoulder of the second dummy runner. If that's legal, common and effective, why are we not doing it? We instead just fire the ball to a forward 10m from the ruck 5m behind the advantage line and hope for the best.
Do that half a dozen times , get nowhere , followed by a telegraphed box kick
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I definitely want to make it clear that my post wasn't about bitching about the "cheating Irish" or anything like that, this is a really clear example of Foster and co being out coached again. Poor defensive structure and our players making bad decisions when faced with a pretty standard play, albeit pushed to the limit with the ball carrier taking the pass just outside the shoulder of the second dummy runner. If that's legal, common and effective, why are we not doing it? We instead just fire the ball to a forward 10m from the ruck 5m behind the advantage line and hope for the best.
Do that half a dozen times , get nowhere , followed by a telegraphed box kick which we dont chase well
FIFY
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just to add, smith first started doing lots of box kicks when we had people like jane and smith on the wing, awesome under the high ball...now we have different wing and its like they are oblivious to the idea that it wont work as well for everyone
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@Kiwiwomble They (esp. Ireland/SA) crowd the area with players now as well as try to stick a mitt in the way just to knock the ball back to one of their own players. It has become a low percentage play.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack it goes back to the "individual moment of brilliance" game plan...they seem to just say "hey nuggie...you're good a box kicks aye?...do that"....without even bothering to look and see if "they" are good at receiving them
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@Derm-McCrum said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@reprobate Irish rugby fans are the nastiest, chippiest bunch of assholes I've met in person. I had a salesman come to my lab at a university in London and have a go at me about NZ rugby and "cheating" etc. Awful people. I cannot bear to lose to them. On the other hand, I desperately want these incompetent idiot coaches gone. Rugby is one of the very few remaining sources of national pride.
Well, that's all 7 million of us done for so. Wait till I get my hands on that salesman - he's a lot to answer for.
I met a slightly rude New Zealander once in Russia in 1981. Haven't talked with him since.
No wonder you beat us on Saturday, your potential playing pool is so far greater than little ol’ New Zealand.
In NZ it’s league, soccer/football, cricket, basketball, tiddlywinks and then rugby - all with a tiny population.
Surprised you didn’t put 50 on us.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 see i dont think theyre stopping him making the right decision....theyre just presenting several options and that confuses LF...which is on him
I think the second runner is directly blocking his ability to be able to make a tackle. That's not a decision, that's an impact.
He's not blocking him though - because he didn't even make an attempt! Maybe LF was burned by his earlier poor attempt at something, but he really should be hitting that second runner - at the very least he's going to disrupt Aki by knocking the player back into him. Interesting that this is where he should have gone balls to the wall, not on some no hope kick charge.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew Well if the probability was be second fiddle to Foster that would make sense.
So it's "Earthquake in Peru. Foster to blame", then?
