All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
as with everything, the "how" of any "setup" is far less important than the "why".
Why are we spread across the field? who or what are we trying to isolate? Phases without purpose are useless.
If we move back towards a 1-3-3-1 or a pattern with bigger bodies in the middle, we could be trying to be less about going wide and more about going through them? That seems the way to breakdown the rush, so wha pattern would fit to do that? A tight six could be the right set of people, but I wonder about how they plan to do that.
Start of the second half against France last year we seemed to do exactly that and it worked until someone dropped a ball or gave a dumb penalty.
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@Victor-Meldrew that really bugged me, we found something that worked, we were making huge meters....and then we went back to what hadn't been working before
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Victor-Meldrew that really bugged me, we found something that worked, we were making huge meters....and then we went back to what hadn't been working before
Problem with on-field leadership from the Snr players?
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
I don't mind the plan, if the players can execute but it also relies on the forward pack to turn up and unfortunately it is mostly the same people that failed in 2019.
I almost wonder if this is Foster saying to Hansen, look your idea could work (and I havent had any successful ones)..bet I can do it ...meanwhile the fern loses it lol
I think it's more that the next generation of forwards probably aren't quite going to arrive in time for 2023. Which is a pity, because we've got most of the pieces to the puzzle in the backs.
e.g. by 2025, we could have Tamaiti Williams, Sami T. and Newell as a front row, which right now looks a pretty decent prospect - but, it's hard to see the props arriving in time for 2023.
Make up your mind geezer! Either players aren't ready and experience is required, even if out of position, or we need to throw good players into the mix because they're good enough even if they don't have test experience...
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
look, picking SB at 6 works if the plan is to play tight and just bully the fuck out of Ireland at set piece and up front
If we pick 6 tight forwards and try and play wide-wide-wide (like a certain game in 2019) then i might be looking for a new TV by the Aussie game
I don't mind the plan, if the players can execute but it also relies on the forward pack to turn up and unfortunately it is mostly the same people that failed in 2019.
I almost wonder if this is Foster saying to Hansen, look your idea could work (and I havent had any successful ones)..bet I can do it ...meanwhile the fern loses it lol
I think it's more that the next generation of forwards probably aren't quite going to arrive in time for 2023. Which is a pity, because we've got most of the pieces to the puzzle in the backs.
e.g. by 2025, we could have Tamaiti Williams, Sami T. and Newell as a front row, which right now looks a pretty decent prospect - but, it's hard to see the props arriving in time for 2023.
Make up your mind geezer! Either players aren't ready and experience is required, even if out of position, or we need to throw good players into the mix because they're good enough even if they don't have test experience...
My concern is that next year Newell could quite easily be the best TH in NZ, in his third year of professional rugby, but wouldn’t be considered ‘ready’. However if they had manned up and brought him in this year (eg right now instead of Lomax) he could/would likely be viewed very differently.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 but we wouldn't want his career ruined, as so often happens.
I don’t think you are serious, but I’ll bite anyway (fern way).
I’m not suggesting he start against the Boks this year, but that he be in the environment. I think M4L has been banging on about this for a while, but there is now a development aspect to the AB team, and the lack of a young TH seems pretty strange.
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@Victor-Meldrew I’m not sure the Mils or Dagg to wing moves were any more logical or illogical than Jordie to the wing 😉
From my armchair, Jerry to number 8 was a case of getting him in the side whilst the captain - a very good captain, a win the Bledisloe back after 5 long years captain - played in his position (sounds familiar aye) 😀
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
I’m not sure the Mils or Dagg to wing moves were any more logical or illogical than Jordie to the wing 😉
Mils was playing wing for the Blues way back in 2001 - 2 years before his test debut.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
People pick World XVs based in highlight reels. Just watch him play and how he never shifts bodies at rucks. Always leans or one out. Isn't tall enough to be a good option for lineputs.
Those are considerable gaps to be overcome in a loose forward trio.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
People pick World XVs based in highlight reels. Just watch him play and how he never shifts bodies at rucks. Always leans or one out. Isn't tall enough to be a good option for lineputs.
Those are considerable gaps to be overcome in a loose forward trio.
The fac that he's twice been the ABs Player's Player of the year means I call bollox. I have my biases, as do we all, but the All Blacks players themselves have a pretty good fucking idea of who is doing the mahi for the team. I do agree that playing him is 8 (fine plonking him on the back of the scrum on attack) is stupid. The key point is the coaches are bunch of pussies who can't grip it and select a decent team. So the fanny about and just put the 'best palyers' where ever they could possibly fit
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@Machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
People pick World XVs based in highlight reels. Just watch him play and how he never shifts bodies at rucks. Always leans or one out. Isn't tall enough to be a good option for lineputs.
Those are considerable gaps to be overcome in a loose forward trio.
The fac that he's twice been the ABs Player's Player of the year means I call bollox. I have my biases, as do we all, but the All Blacks players themselves have a pretty good fucking idea of who is doing the mahi for the team. I do agree that playing him is 8 (fine plonking him on the back of the scrum on attack) is stupid. The key point is the coaches are bunch of pussies who can't grip it and select a decent team. So the fanny about and just put the 'best palyers' where ever they could possibly fit
sam winders was silverferns players player last year and look were she is now
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
This conversation is driving me fucking nuts.
We're playing a lock at 6 to hopefully make up for the fact that we are playing an impact 7 at 8.
At what point are the selectors going to man up and make a choice that it would be better for AB rugby to lose Ardie Savea, so that we could get some fucking balance?
Fuck him if he leaves because he has to play off the bench. We'd be better off.
So if Ardie is a 7 playing at 8, why is he picked in world VXs at 8, why does he look to be the first player named in any super team while playing at 8? He is a pretty capable 8, and because he can also play 7 doesn't stop him being a bloody good 8. Who has said he will bugger off if he is on bench, that is just making shit up and seemingly trying to make Ardie look like an arsehole.
People pick World XVs based in highlight reels. Just watch him play and how he never shifts bodies at rucks. Always leans or one out. Isn't tall enough to be a good option for lineputs.
Those are considerable gaps to be overcome in a loose forward trio.
You do know the world xv (the only one I use as it is a World Rugby one) is picked by the a panel including Richie McCaw, Terry Dustoir,, Joe Smit, Ugo Moyne etc etc, I know I know how would these lot know more about what makes a good international rugby player than those who who inhabit forums etc., but there you go they just look at a few highlights and pick team no doubt.
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@Ludraman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Question for you Kiwis. Who, if any of the Irish would ye take in an AB team?
I'm nervous about this first test... I just hope it's a close game and we don't get pumped.
Easy. Henshaw at 12 has the runs on the board over Tupaea. Also Porter and Furlong at prop.
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@Ludraman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 1st Test:
Question for you Kiwis. Who, if any of the Irish would ye take in an AB team?
I'm nervous about this first test... I just hope it's a close game and we don't get pumped.
Furlong and Porter. Also the injured Leinster hooker Kelleher is a good player. Doris was very good vs the ABs last year but he’s been less impressive this year. Henshaw is a very good player. I rate the FB Keenan but probably not enough on attack. I think Ryan after a good first season has faded a bit.
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I’ll wait and see how things pan out but as I’ve posted a few times not convinced by our props in the squad. The loose forwards are a mystery, not convinced PGS can post error-free test match footy. Grace has had a fantastic end to the season and is a genuine line out option like Read before him. Same can not be said of players like Savea. Hope Leicester goes well as I have doubts too.
