Super Rugby 2022
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@muddyriver said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Crucial our rugby is on at a good time for South Africa and Europe viewers.
Really?
I think your talking like the current model is successful. Super rugby viewers are dropping year on year. Age is older. The market doesn't like the product. Moving it to Japan USA is band aid solutions imo. That will fade also.
The opposite. I know our current product has run its course. Re-inventing the NPC is short sighted and insular. Unless we could attract overseas players in the talent would also either be spread far too thin for quality or would congregate in a couple of teams. What an awesome product that wouldn’t be.
I think ultimately, long term, an nz only comp would not be a tier 1 comp, arguably with the Oz and worse nz teams super rugby is not right now. But if you have fan buy in Ala South American football it would still be very sustainable. Maybe elite all blacks have to go over seas.
We need way more than sustainable. We need to be stronger and have better resources.
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You know the thing that amuses me a little. We keep hearing how the final of Super AU was a stunning success a couple of years back , and it was, but if anyone cares to recall the viewing figures for the rest of that year was not very bloody good, I think the major semi was good, but then all the next best figures were actually cross over matches. I know it's wonderful to build a comp on the viewing of one or two games, but by geez they would need to be big money pullers to pay for another 3-5 teams that Hamish is saying RA will come up with. Even look at this year, what were the Tahs biggest crowds? Against a couple of kiwi teams. What were Rebels crowds like? Pretty poor , and that will be standard of game (at most) if Aus rugby is diluted by adding all these extra teams, because I doubt there will be too many good teams when spread between 8-10 teams.
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@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2022:
You know the thing that amuses me a little. We keep hearing how the final of Super AU was a stunning success a couple of years back , and it was, but if anyone cares to recall the viewing figures for the rest of that year was not very bloody good, I think the major semi was good, but then all the next best figures were actually cross over matches. I know it's wonderful to build a comp on the viewing of one or two games, but by geez they would need to be big money pullers to pay for another 3-5 teams that Hamish is saying RA will come up with. Even look at this year, what were the Tahs biggest crowds? Against a couple of kiwi teams. What were Rebels crowds like? Pretty poor , and that will be standard of game (at most) if Aus rugby is diluted by adding all these extra teams, because I doubt there will be too many good teams when spread between 8-10 teams.
Tahs have dropped to playing at a local club ground FFS.
Look, Oz can do whatever the fuck they like. My concern is that we need to be in control of our destiny.
We have a window of opportunity with the Silverlake money coming in before Oz get a RWC windfall (to blow again) and the US start dishing out money to boost their setup before their own RWC.
I hope we don't waste the opportunity. -
Aust teams did a lot better this year. But are they going to win 2023. Very unlikely. Even in NZ it has become unbalanced now with the Crusaders winning year after boring year. The Blues improving but failing badly in the final. And the Hurricanes and Highlanders slipping back.
The NZ salary model will likley make things worse in the future. Where teams who have the ABs are at a massive advanatage. Good non ABs will just leave. Quality young players will move to the stronger teams. Add in Aust having too many teams My view is SRP will fail unless chnages are made and NZ rugby don't have the quality of leaders necessary to make them.
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@Crucial Test rugby still makes the big money. So hopefully SA don't join the 6 nations and leave us without a key team. That might be a blow we can't recover from.
And maybe NZR didn't think of this outcome when they forced SA to leave. Something that seems to have worked out well for SA. As they had 2 teams in the final.
I just don't think NZ can do it alone. Maybe it could work with say more teams (say 8 ) but can NZ ever come up with a structure to ensure even teams. I doubt it. And could be afford 8 teams. I don't think so. So we need Aust. But Aust don't want to be in a competition that their teams never win.
It seems to be a situation that has no easy solution.
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@Winger said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Crucial Test rugby still makes the big money. So hopefully SA don't join the 6 nations and leave us without a key team. That might be a blow we can't recover from.
And maybe NZR didn't think of this outcome when they forced SA to leave. Something that seems to have worked out well for SA. As they had 2 teams in the final.
I just don't think NZ can do it alone. Maybe it could work with say more teams (say 8 ) but can NZ ever come up with a structure to ensure even teams. I doubt it. And could be afford 8 teams. I don't think so. So we need Aust. But Aust don't want to be in a competition that their teams never win.
It seems to be a situation that has no easy solution.
Except to change other factors. Either allow players to play anywhere in Super and still be eligible for national sides or look for different partners. I think it needs to be both.
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@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2022:
Either allow players to play anywhere in Super and still be eligible for national sides
I've long been a fan of allowing this, is quite different to playing in a totally different comp.
I expect if NZ really was the evil empire, they could have picked up someone from MP, same comp, many are NZ born.
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@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Crucial Test rugby still makes the big money. So hopefully SA don't join the 6 nations and leave us without a key team. That might be a blow we can't recover from.
And maybe NZR didn't think of this outcome when they forced SA to leave. Something that seems to have worked out well for SA. As they had 2 teams in the final.
I just don't think NZ can do it alone. Maybe it could work with say more teams (say 8 ) but can NZ ever come up with a structure to ensure even teams. I doubt it. And could be afford 8 teams. I don't think so. So we need Aust. But Aust don't want to be in a competition that their teams never win.
It seems to be a situation that has no easy solution.
Except to change other factors. Either allow players to play anywhere in Super and still be eligible for national sides or look for different partners. I think it needs to be both.
agreed, this would have been good when we had the sunwolves, let some of those guys get some japanese money
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@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Crucial Test rugby still makes the big money. So hopefully SA don't join the 6 nations and leave us without a key team. That might be a blow we can't recover from.
And maybe NZR didn't think of this outcome when they forced SA to leave. Something that seems to have worked out well for SA. As they had 2 teams in the final.
I just don't think NZ can do it alone. Maybe it could work with say more teams (say 8 ) but can NZ ever come up with a structure to ensure even teams. I doubt it. And could be afford 8 teams. I don't think so. So we need Aust. But Aust don't want to be in a competition that their teams never win.
It seems to be a situation that has no easy solution.
Except to change other factors. Either allow players to play anywhere in Super and still be eligible for national sides or look for different partners. I think it needs to be both.
Including Japan is the most logical option if we are talking about that strategy. Let guys play for Japanese teams in a Pacific SR comp as long as they can be available for the ABs
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Crucial Test rugby still makes the big money. So hopefully SA don't join the 6 nations and leave us without a key team. That might be a blow we can't recover from.
And maybe NZR didn't think of this outcome when they forced SA to leave. Something that seems to have worked out well for SA. As they had 2 teams in the final.
I just don't think NZ can do it alone. Maybe it could work with say more teams (say 8 ) but can NZ ever come up with a structure to ensure even teams. I doubt it. And could be afford 8 teams. I don't think so. So we need Aust. But Aust don't want to be in a competition that their teams never win.
It seems to be a situation that has no easy solution.
Except to change other factors. Either allow players to play anywhere in Super and still be eligible for national sides or look for different partners. I think it needs to be both.
agreed, this would have been good when we had the sunwolves, let some of those guys get some japanese money
Snap
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@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Crucial Test rugby still makes the big money. So hopefully SA don't join the 6 nations and leave us without a key team. That might be a blow we can't recover from.
And maybe NZR didn't think of this outcome when they forced SA to leave. Something that seems to have worked out well for SA. As they had 2 teams in the final.
I just don't think NZ can do it alone. Maybe it could work with say more teams (say 8 ) but can NZ ever come up with a structure to ensure even teams. I doubt it. And could be afford 8 teams. I don't think so. So we need Aust. But Aust don't want to be in a competition that their teams never win.
It seems to be a situation that has no easy solution.
Except to change other factors. Either allow players to play anywhere in Super and still be eligible for national sides or look for different partners. I think it needs to be both.
While I understand what you saying Crucial, it's ar odds with what is required for ABs etc where main money comes from, same as Wallabies.
You think that anyway in world an Aus franchise is going to do anything but run any ABs or whatever into ground if they play there. We will surely shorten players longevity etc, as they will be constantly playing. I would guess NZ franchises would do exactly the same. There is a reason AUs is even so reluctant to pick overseas players. -
@Dan54 this is where rugby needs to catch up with other professional sports and its shocking that we havent already, its super common in football for loaned players to have either game minimums or maximums depending on if theyre coming up or returning from injury etc
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the NRL gets $400M a year for TV. For a sport that is huge in 2 states, and small pockets of Victoria and South Australia
Go get that deal. Create a National comp of even 12 NZ teams playing all year. Set the salary cap at like $11M per club/province/team. Allow them to hire players from where ever they want.
An average salary of $350K (plus international bonuses) and the ability to play rugby in NZ will bring a lot of marquee talent to the comp.
Think big people
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@mariner4life i do wonder sometimes if NZR's control over all aspects is actually hindering the sport general
Am i imagining that the NRL was on the ropes in the late 90's early 2000's? if so, how did they turn it around?
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@mariner4life NRL is tribal. Rugby doesn't have that as far as I can tell. Would love to hear @NTA take on it
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@mariner4life NRL is tribal. Rugby doesn't have that as far as I can tell. Would love to hear @NTA take on it
not in Aus (except at club level)
But in NZ? At NPC level? absolutely it is. Especially if you can watch BOP play Waikato with not only All Blacks, but also a couple of French and Irish internationals thrown in.
Kerevi at 12 and Lawes at blindside for BOP sounds fucking delicious actually. 10/10, would watch.
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@mariner4life NRL is tribal. Rugby doesn't have that as far as I can tell. Would love to hear @NTA take on it
i agree rugby isn;t, real wake up call when you see 80k people rocking up to a mid season mid tabel (ie nothing on the line) game of AFL, thousands walking through town in all the merch
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@mariner4life NRL is tribal. Rugby doesn't have that as far as I can tell. Would love to hear @NTA take on it
not in Aus (except at club level)
But in NZ? At NPC level? absolutely it is. Especially if you can watch BOP play Waikato with not only All Blacks, but also a couple of French and Irish internationals thrown in.
Kerevi at 12 and Lawes at blindside for BOP sounds fucking delicious actually. 10/10, would watch.
NPC could be and maybe use to be but super rugby isn't i dont think, i think the key to these really tribal sports is history...and super rugby keens chopping and changing too much
