Super Rugby 2022
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
There are some specific downsides, but I think SA are winning - they get NH club rugby and SANZAAR international rugby.
Agreed but how does this move impact on their workload? Do their SA based Boks have to play more games now than in SR? If that's the case then it's a downside. The Boks going forward should in theory be weaker in the RC as well as it takes place at the end of their season.
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So Oz are pissed off that they don't earn as much money because their own negotiating point and value is lower because they don't win.
They think they can get more money from Stan if they aren't getting beaten by NZ teams? Maybe. Maybe not.
Or they could just get better. -
@Bovidae said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Derpus Has there been any response from Nine/Stan to McLennan's rant? After all they are the broadcaster that paid for the Aust rights.
I would have thought going it alone would erode RA's position even further. Regardless of the gate sizes, broadcasters generally want content, the more the better. I am sure the outlets involved were more than keen to have SR expand over the years to get more games on their platforms, despite the fact that the S12 was the best sized comp and the drop in quality of the product that happened with the conference system
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
I'm sure there is more I've forgotten. Seems to me like RA act like mouthy fluffybunnies but NZRU actually are fluffybunnies.
we'll never forget the 2003 debacle. Partly incompetence from NZR, WR, but Aus Rugby was very happy to throw us under the bus.
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lol fuck off Derpus, NZ rugby get to act like pricks in any negotiations because they hold most of the cards
What, exactly, do Aus bring to the table? Strong teams? well, one. One that isn't bad. One that's average, and 2 that suck.
The Wallabies have been pretty average for the better part of a decade. Haven't won the Bledisloe for 20 years.
And barely anyone in Australia gives a shit.
You'll all point to the Super Rugby Aus final, which overlooks the fact that you can pull a crowd in Brisbane for toad racing if there is a chance a Queenslander will beat a team from somewhere else. But it's a graveyard if you suck.
This dick waving from both sides is pretty fucking poor. But it's especially poor from the Executive of a 2nd rate union.
Fuck 'em. Let them go it alone. They'll be a shit A-league in 2 years.
And we can actually have some reform in NZ rugby that moves it in to the modern era.
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 I don't see why Japan would partner with NZRU unless it was a champions cup typed thing.
Losing to the Saders doesn't really gel with their corporate dick swinging model. Plus NZR are demonstrably fluffybunnies to work with.
In this case we are the dominant power in the game, and it wasn't like we were shutting AR out altogether. The way they went about it was certainly clumsy to say the least, but Australia aren't exactly a victim. O'Neill used to try to fuck us over every chance he got
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this is where i think we're getting it wrong, we're like the rich kid that got the video game no one else had....and got good at it because we play it more than everyone else...and are now shitty the other kids dont want to play with us
if we want to be able to keep playing rugby with the rest of the kids...we're going to have to stop rubbing the fact we're awesome in everyones faces...or they'll just go play the sports theyre good at....or we need to accept we'll have the NPC like aussie has the AFL....we're great but no one else plays it
we cant have it both ways
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Do we need Australia?
I'm going to assume yes, so what could be a situation that works?
Three competitions that run during the same year: Super Rugby Aotearoa (10 teams), Super Rugby Australia (five - six teams), And Super Rugby Pacific (Heineken Cup / 2nd division / 3rd Division).
NZ retains rights to NZ Aotearoa and expands our number of teams. We meet Australian teams in the Super Rugby Pacific Competition if they want. or add Japanese teams (or both).
It's not ideal, but it could work, but if we keep Moana Pacfika and add another pacific team, we'd only need 3 more teams.
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@Kiwiwomble so we should lose on purpose to make them feel better and they will play with us?
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
Do we need Australia?
I'm going to assume yes, so what could be a situation that works?
Three competitions that run during the same year: Super Rugby Aotearoa (10 teams), Super Rugby Australia (five - six teams), And Super Rugby Pacific (Heineken Cup / 2nd division / 3rd Division).
NZ retains rights to NZ Aotearoa and expands our number of teams. We meet Australian teams in the Super Rugby Pacific Competition if they want. or add Japanese teams (or both).
It's not ideal, but it could work, but if we keep Moana Pacfika and add another pacific team, we'd only need 3 more teams.
So the top teams qualify to play in the SRP comp in a UCL type scenario?
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble so we should lose on purpose to make them feel better and they will play with us?
of course not....but we can stop saying things like "NZ rugby get to act like pricks in any negotiations because they hold most of the cards"
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
so what could be a situation that works
i doubt there is one
I get the feeling NZR is very wedded to the current structure.
The NZ rugby public doesn't really know what it wants.
We need lots of money or all our best players will leave
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble so we should lose on purpose to make them feel better and they will play with us?
of course not....but we can stop saying things like "NZ rugby get to act like pricks in any negotiations because they hold most of the cards"
The only person who said we act like pricks in negotiations was Derpus. I can't say based on evidence that NZ are being pricks. The last time there was a proper dust up, Marinos was the one who was proven to be talking shit, and Robinson appeared to have acted honourably. He certainly didn't resort to airing dirty laundry in public
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble so we should lose on purpose to make them feel better and they will play with us?
of course not....but we can stop saying things like "NZ rugby get to act like pricks in any negotiations because they hold most of the cards"
so you want me to lie?
i also don't believe this lovely utopia where two unions work together harmoniously exists. Especially because our only leverage in anything rugby related is that we are good at it.
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@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble so we should lose on purpose to make them feel better and they will play with us?
of course not....but we can stop saying things like "NZ rugby get to act like pricks in any negotiations because they hold most of the cards"
The only person who said we act like pricks in negotiations was Derpus. I can't say based on evidence that NZ are being pricks. The last time there was a proper dust up, Marinos was the one who was proven to be talking shit, and Robinson appeared to have acted honourably. He certainly didn't resort to airing dirty laundry in public
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
lol fuck off Derpus, NZ rugby get to act like pricks in any negotiations because they hold most of the cards
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2022:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Kiwiwomble so we should lose on purpose to make them feel better and they will play with us?
of course not....but we can stop saying things like "NZ rugby get to act like pricks in any negotiations because they hold most of the cards"
The only person who said we act like pricks in negotiations was Derpus. I can't say based on evidence that NZ are being pricks. The last time there was a proper dust up, Marinos was the one who was proven to be talking shit, and Robinson appeared to have acted honourably. He certainly didn't resort to airing dirty laundry in public
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2022:
lol fuck off Derpus, NZ rugby get to act like pricks in any negotiations because they hold most of the cards
bolded textand i stand by it too
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@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
Do we need Australia?
I'm going to assume yes, so what could be a situation that works?
Three competitions that run during the same year: Super Rugby Aotearoa (10 teams), Super Rugby Australia (five - six teams), And Super Rugby Pacific (Heineken Cup / 2nd division / 3rd Division).
NZ retains rights to NZ Aotearoa and expands our number of teams. We meet Australian teams in the Super Rugby Pacific Competition if they want. or add Japanese teams (or both).
It's not ideal, but it could work, but if we keep Moana Pacfika and add another pacific team, we'd only need 3 more teams.
So the top teams qualify to play in the SRP comp in a UCL type scenario?
I'd argue for two teams from NZ, Maybe two from Oz, and perhaps one from Japan in three groups (essentially Cup for highest ranked teams from each, Plate for the next group, then Bowl for the lowest). All teams get play-off rugby and we could see Champions from each country.
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@Kiwiwomble I don’t think that analogy works because the Wallabies are still a draw card home and abroad and generate cash. So that’s the basis on which they work. First and foremost they want a strong Wallabies so then they think what do we need to try and make that happen. Different ARU CEOs over the years have had different ideas about that - eg domestic comps, club rugby boosts, Super rugby expansion, break away from SANNZAR / NZRU etc
In NZ because of a host of reasons, the domestic comp is paramount in and of itself.
