Super Rugby 2022
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
Between this guy and Marinos, ARU are being run by absolute dickheads.
He's right though. We tried to shaft them by directly approaching Super sides we wanted to join us. That's not partner behaviour and it's disgraceful the Board allowed it to happen.
He says this
Why are they so annoyed at us exercising our right to explore our options when they forcibly kicked out South Africa and Argentina from Super Rugby for good?” McLennan said. “South Africa leaving SANZAAR will have a far more devastating impact on rugby in our part of the world.”and he has a point. Although I don't think we kicked SA out - but losing them is a big headache for us in the medium term.
Didn't Covid19 force our hand? Until travel restrictions were lifted I don't see NZ or Australia had any option but to cut down their competitions. Whether SA want to come back to SR when things normalise is another story
SA have always wanted to play in Europe with the great timezones and the huge money. I don't think it'll ever happen though - have outlined reasons before, but I can't see the upside for Europe, and the seaons are big (going from midwinter Scotland to midsummer Durban), wiht a 10 hour plane ride.
No way they join the 6N. But aren't they playing against NH club sides right now?
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@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
Between this guy and Marinos, ARU are being run by absolute dickheads.
He's right though. We tried to shaft them by directly approaching Super sides we wanted to join us. That's not partner behaviour and it's disgraceful the Board allowed it to happen.
He says this
Why are they so annoyed at us exercising our right to explore our options when they forcibly kicked out South Africa and Argentina from Super Rugby for good?” McLennan said. “South Africa leaving SANZAAR will have a far more devastating impact on rugby in our part of the world.”and he has a point. Although I don't think we kicked SA out - but losing them is a big headache for us in the medium term.
Didn't Covid19 force our hand? Until travel restrictions were lifted I don't see NZ or Australia had any option but to cut down their competitions. Whether SA want to come back to SR when things normalise is another story
SA have always wanted to play in Europe with the great timezones and the huge money. I don't think it'll ever happen though - have outlined reasons before, but I can't see the upside for Europe, and the seaons are big (going from midwinter Scotland to midsummer Durban), wiht a 10 hour plane ride.
No way they join the 6N. But aren't they playing against NH club sides right now?
they are - in the Tier 2 comp that is pleased for some cash. NH posters will be able to provide more information I'm sure
6N is such a cash cow, and I can't see them inviting in people to potentially win it (or the Heineken Cup for that matter).
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@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
Between this guy and Marinos, ARU are being run by absolute dickheads.
He's right though. We tried to shaft them by directly approaching Super sides we wanted to join us. That's not partner behaviour and it's disgraceful the Board allowed it to happen.
He says this
Why are they so annoyed at us exercising our right to explore our options when they forcibly kicked out South Africa and Argentina from Super Rugby for good?” McLennan said. “South Africa leaving SANZAAR will have a far more devastating impact on rugby in our part of the world.”and he has a point. Although I don't think we kicked SA out - but losing them is a big headache for us in the medium term.
Didn't Covid19 force our hand? Until travel restrictions were lifted I don't see NZ or Australia had any option but to cut down their competitions. Whether SA want to come back to SR when things normalise is another story
SA have always wanted to play in Europe with the great timezones and the huge money. I don't think it'll ever happen though - have outlined reasons before, but I can't see the upside for Europe, and the seaons are big (going from midwinter Scotland to midsummer Durban), wiht a 10 hour plane ride.
No way they join the 6N. But aren't they playing against NH club sides right now?
And they’ve always been in the same timezone.
The Euro model follows soccer football and is based on tribalism through clubs. I know that there’s little difference between clubs and franchises but it’s one of perception.
I just don’t see SA fitting that model without swathes of touring supporters. -
Also have a laugh that Hamish saying MP and Drua can join Aus comp, yeah? Until they are good enough to win it, then it will be back to see you later fellas.
I understand the problem is Aus teams haven't won anything for awhile, well that is fans perspective on rugby forums, they want an Aus winner. -
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
Between this guy and Marinos, ARU are being run by absolute dickheads.
He's right though. We tried to shaft them by directly approaching Super sides we wanted to join us. That's not partner behaviour and it's disgraceful the Board allowed it to happen.
He says this
Why are they so annoyed at us exercising our right to explore our options when they forcibly kicked out South Africa and Argentina from Super Rugby for good?” McLennan said. “South Africa leaving SANZAAR will have a far more devastating impact on rugby in our part of the world.”and he has a point. Although I don't think we kicked SA out - but losing them is a big headache for us in the medium term.
Didn't Covid19 force our hand? Until travel restrictions were lifted I don't see NZ or Australia had any option but to cut down their competitions. Whether SA want to come back to SR when things normalise is another story
SA have always wanted to play in Europe with the great timezones and the huge money. I don't think it'll ever happen though - have outlined reasons before, but I can't see the upside for Europe, and the seaons are big (going from midwinter Scotland to midsummer Durban), wiht a 10 hour plane ride.
No way they join the 6N. But aren't they playing against NH club sides right now?
they are - in the Tier 2 comp that is pleased for some cash. NH posters will be able to provide more information I'm sure
6N is such a cash cow, and I can't see them inviting in people to potentially win it (or the Heineken Cup for that matter).
SA are in the Heineken Cup next season
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@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2022:
@canefan said in Super Rugby 2022:
Between this guy and Marinos, ARU are being run by absolute dickheads.
He's right though. We tried to shaft them by directly approaching Super sides we wanted to join us. That's not partner behaviour and it's disgraceful the Board allowed it to happen.
He says this
Why are they so annoyed at us exercising our right to explore our options when they forcibly kicked out South Africa and Argentina from Super Rugby for good?” McLennan said. “South Africa leaving SANZAAR will have a far more devastating impact on rugby in our part of the world.”and he has a point. Although I don't think we kicked SA out - but losing them is a big headache for us in the medium term.
Didn't Covid19 force our hand? Until travel restrictions were lifted I don't see NZ or Australia had any option but to cut down their competitions. Whether SA want to come back to SR when things normalise is another story
SA have always wanted to play in Europe with the great timezones and the huge money. I don't think it'll ever happen though - have outlined reasons before, but I can't see the upside for Europe, and the seaons are big (going from midwinter Scotland to midsummer Durban), wiht a 10 hour plane ride.
No way they join the 6N. But aren't they playing against NH club sides right now?
they are - in the Tier 2 comp that is pleased for some cash. NH posters will be able to provide more information I'm sure
6N is such a cash cow, and I can't see them inviting in people to potentially win it (or the Heineken Cup for that matter).
SA are in the Heineken Cup next season
right you are, apologies
South African teams to play in Champions Cup for first time
The Bulls, Sharks and Stormers have qualified through the United Rugby Championship for next seasons Champions Cup; the Lions will compete in the European Challenge Cup with the Cheetahs also invited
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The stupid thing is we both need each other keep rugby strong in this part of the world.
But if we can't trust RA to not throw their toys every two years, maybe we should just go it alone and get some US, Japan and Drua/MP sides in a comp. Make two more Super Rugby sides call it the NPC and be done with them.
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There are some specific downsides, but I think SA are winning - they get NH club rugby and SANZAAR international rugby.
NZ needs to find a competition that keeps us internationally strong. I honestly don’t know what that looks like, although as I’ve said before Japan could be one partner (latest economic woes not withstanding).
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@Kirwan I mean, on the one hand you have RA acting childish and antagonistic by bitching to the media. On the other you have some pretty questionable behaviour on your end:
- the Aratipu report (granted not strictly NZRU)
- followed by direct approaches to Aus franchises (definitely NZRU and arguably an endorsement of the report)
- the whole Perth shenanigans
I'm sure there is more I've forgotten. Seems to me like RA act like mouthy fluffybunnies but NZRU actually are fluffybunnies.
Having said all that I don't really buy it being NZRUs fault the Saffas left. Was always going to happen.
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@gt12 said in Super Rugby 2022:
There are some specific downsides, but I think SA are winning - they get NH club rugby and SANZAAR international rugby.
Agreed but how does this move impact on their workload? Do their SA based Boks have to play more games now than in SR? If that's the case then it's a downside. The Boks going forward should in theory be weaker in the RC as well as it takes place at the end of their season.
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So Oz are pissed off that they don't earn as much money because their own negotiating point and value is lower because they don't win.
They think they can get more money from Stan if they aren't getting beaten by NZ teams? Maybe. Maybe not.
Or they could just get better. -
@Bovidae said in Super Rugby 2022:
@Derpus Has there been any response from Nine/Stan to McLennan's rant? After all they are the broadcaster that paid for the Aust rights.
I would have thought going it alone would erode RA's position even further. Regardless of the gate sizes, broadcasters generally want content, the more the better. I am sure the outlets involved were more than keen to have SR expand over the years to get more games on their platforms, despite the fact that the S12 was the best sized comp and the drop in quality of the product that happened with the conference system
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
I'm sure there is more I've forgotten. Seems to me like RA act like mouthy fluffybunnies but NZRU actually are fluffybunnies.
we'll never forget the 2003 debacle. Partly incompetence from NZR, WR, but Aus Rugby was very happy to throw us under the bus.
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lol fuck off Derpus, NZ rugby get to act like pricks in any negotiations because they hold most of the cards
What, exactly, do Aus bring to the table? Strong teams? well, one. One that isn't bad. One that's average, and 2 that suck.
The Wallabies have been pretty average for the better part of a decade. Haven't won the Bledisloe for 20 years.
And barely anyone in Australia gives a shit.
You'll all point to the Super Rugby Aus final, which overlooks the fact that you can pull a crowd in Brisbane for toad racing if there is a chance a Queenslander will beat a team from somewhere else. But it's a graveyard if you suck.
This dick waving from both sides is pretty fucking poor. But it's especially poor from the Executive of a 2nd rate union.
Fuck 'em. Let them go it alone. They'll be a shit A-league in 2 years.
And we can actually have some reform in NZ rugby that moves it in to the modern era.
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@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2022:
@gt12 I don't see why Japan would partner with NZRU unless it was a champions cup typed thing.
Losing to the Saders doesn't really gel with their corporate dick swinging model. Plus NZR are demonstrably fluffybunnies to work with.
In this case we are the dominant power in the game, and it wasn't like we were shutting AR out altogether. The way they went about it was certainly clumsy to say the least, but Australia aren't exactly a victim. O'Neill used to try to fuck us over every chance he got
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this is where i think we're getting it wrong, we're like the rich kid that got the video game no one else had....and got good at it because we play it more than everyone else...and are now shitty the other kids dont want to play with us
if we want to be able to keep playing rugby with the rest of the kids...we're going to have to stop rubbing the fact we're awesome in everyones faces...or they'll just go play the sports theyre good at....or we need to accept we'll have the NPC like aussie has the AFL....we're great but no one else plays it
we cant have it both ways
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Do we need Australia?
I'm going to assume yes, so what could be a situation that works?
Three competitions that run during the same year: Super Rugby Aotearoa (10 teams), Super Rugby Australia (five - six teams), And Super Rugby Pacific (Heineken Cup / 2nd division / 3rd Division).
NZ retains rights to NZ Aotearoa and expands our number of teams. We meet Australian teams in the Super Rugby Pacific Competition if they want. or add Japanese teams (or both).
It's not ideal, but it could work, but if we keep Moana Pacfika and add another pacific team, we'd only need 3 more teams.
