Final: Blues vs Crusaders
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I don't think Mo'unga really took control of that game, despite the front foot ball and wealth of possession handed to him. What I do remember is all of the Saders backs kicking for the corner and playing the territory game - Jordan, Havili, even Reece put one over the touchline in the Blues 22. The best part of that performance from the Saders was that the whole team was on the same page and trying to execute the same gameplan, rather than Mo'unga taking control of the game himself - he's just not that kind of 10. Neither is Beauden. I don't think that game would have changed much in the selectors eyes, particularly for the first test where I'd say there would be concerns about Mo'unga's defense being exposed by the big Irish loosies running through his channel.
I'd be extremely surpsied if it wasn't Beauden 10 with Mo'unga on the bench to start with, that is what they favoured last season as well.
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@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@kev said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisMounga’s kicking game was superb tonight. BB was crap this week and last week. Hands down Mounga starts.
BB is much better off the bench as a super sub.
It's so much easier to kick well tactically when you get forwards handing it to you on a silver platter. And not under any real pressure. So I disagree
Beaudy is not a particularly good punter though. He never has been.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
May I use this opportunity to say Grace needs to be in the ABs squad. Error free, one of the defensive titans, links well, and as Sam Whitelock said, he is the lineout master/leader. Sotutu and him need to be battling it out for the ABs No.8 position for the future.
After tonight's performance, Grace may be the answer at 6 rather than at 8
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@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@number9 said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants Richie's grneral kicking game was fantastic. Blues were strategically inept.
Totally. Swap the tens, I don't think there would be much difference. Rolls Royce pack etc
BB kicking was poor against Brumbies as well.
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@No-Quarter said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
I don't think Mo'unga really took control of that game, despite the front foot ball and wealth of possession handed to him. What I do remember is all of the Saders backs kicking for the corner and playing the territory game - Jordan, Havili, even Reece put one over the touchline in the Blues 22. The best part of that performance from the Saders was that the whole team was on the same page and trying to execute the same gameplan, rather than Mo'unga taking control of the game himself - he's just not that kind of 10. Neither is Beauden. I don't think that game would have changed much in the selectors eyes, particularly for the first test where I'd say there would be concerns about Mo'unga's defense being exposed by the big Irish loosies running through his channel.
I'd be extremely surpsied if it wasn't Beauden 10 with Mo'unga on the bench to start with, that is what they favoured last season as well.
I’m not advocating for Richie to start ahead of Barrett in the first test, I still think it should be Beaudie, but you could see tonight Richie’s organisation of our attack line. From the vision on the TV at least you could see him communicating and he varied the point of attack quite a bit. His kicking was good but I think his passing was better. He drew in attention from more than one defender which helped his team mates. I thought he played a pretty mature game tonight.
His defence was pretty good tonight, didn’t miss a tackle from the stats I saw. That’s a plus!!
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@Chris said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Great tactical coaching by Razor , change the point of attack multiple times,Read the blues line out.
Pleasing to see some ABs stand up who were selected .
But a worry some others did not stand up under pressure.
On to the test season,Heads up Blues supporters your team has come a long way and will only get better.
Now to get fucking pissed.Where are the Robertson detractors who frequent the fern?
Remember how McDonald & Schmidt were the savors of NZ Rugby & the heirs apparent to Fozzie and Co after merely one successful season with Le Blues?
It terms of talent in the two teams it was neck and neck. The difference was the game plan, winning the little contests that added up to a 5% dominance in the first half, which translated to 10% moving into the second half and the relentless pressure from the Crusaders finally took its toll in two tries and penalties. Superb coaching.
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@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisYep, that match told us absolutely nothing about the 10s that we didn't already know. RM is a god at Super level and a magician when he gets an armchair ride from his pack. BB is shit, runs sideways and shovels terrible passes when he doesn't get an armchair ride.
The only potentially relevant outcome of that match so far as the AB 10 is concerned, is that RM may get first dibs at shitting the bed against the Irish (or conversely dominating if the AB pack gets the ascendancy).
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@kev said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@kiwiinmelb said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
I guess in hindsight the writing was on the wall at the end of last weeks blues brumbies game ,
Blues continued on in this game with the same deer in the headlights look about them
For me this is a McDonald choke. The Blues game is running. Aimless kicking from Christie and BB, and a lineout that fell apart. He has the best props, and loose forwards in the game ( useful locks ) and they were owned not just this game but the last 40 mins against the Brumbies. Wrong game plan, poor attention to detail, and use of bench.
Yep, and in contrast I thought it was a coaching masterclass by Robertson. From the set-piece blitz to the flooding of the breakdowns, to the varied kicking, to the variety of back attacks even in tricky conditions and the swarming defense this was a performance based on a totally astute reading by the Crusaders' coaches of what was needed to smother the Blues. Very impressive.
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@mikey07 said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Bones said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@mikey07 said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
As a Canes fan just want to say a big thank you for choking harder then us in 2015!
They were playing the reigning champs, not the reigning chumps...😉
So your saying the 2015 Highlanders team were chumps? 😉
No but probably the 2014 one was...
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I'm glad I went to see Top Gun Maverick today, rather than watch that live (I stupidly agreed to it a few weeks ago thinking it was next week during the break between the rugby).
You can't fault the Crusaders. Saders gonna sade and some players were really fucking good tonight, especially Sam Whitelock who I hope was the man of the match.
Equally, for the Blues, what a fucking mess - you will get exactly fucking zero fucking chance of winning a game against the Saders - in the wet no less - with a dysfunctional set piece.
That lineout was a fucking disgrace.
The fact that it continued for so long really asks some questions about the Blues players and the coaches. They never had a chance giving up that much possession, and it was good possession too.
Personally, I couldn't take anything else out the game - apart from the some scrum time issues which no doubt have been discussed - apart from that.
In some ways, I'm kind of impressed that the Blues stayed in it for that long with such a shithouse set piece.
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@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@chimoaus said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Credit to BOK and the refs, I don't think they changed the outcome and thoight they did well overall.
No cards, either
Yeah, they were great. Apart from the foul-play reviews, you hardly noticed BOK and the refs.
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Gonna post first read thread second
Jager had an absolute cracker at 3. Best game he has played for the crusaders.
Grace was also very good at 8. A genuine attacking and defensive line out option. Robinson as an AB locking option, don’t think so.
Akira was AWOL. Switch Crusaders for SA or Ireland, and is he our 6?
Mounga had a great game and the midfield were a defensive wall.
Finally, are the Blues props really the best options for the ABs??
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@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Pretty much agree, except for this:
Akira was AWOL. Switch Crusaders for SA or Ireland, and is he our 6?
Along with the other loosies, he kept the Blues in it - amazing it was only 16-0 at HT. . Sure, he wasn't rocking it up like Hoskins, but he was doing the hard yakka, engine-room stuff.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Pretty much agree, except for this:
Akira was AWOL. Switch Crusaders for SA or Ireland, and is he our 6?
Along with the other loosies, he kept the Blues in it - amazing it was only 16-0 at HT. . Sure, he wasn't rocking it up like Hoskins, but he was doing the hard yakka, engine-room stuff.
If you say so. Blues pack was buried in the first half. Not a single blues forward played better than their opponent in the first 40.
TBH the biggest AB selection problem is the props.
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@kev at what position though? 1st five because I wouldn’t have him at FB. Leave that to Jordie and Jordan if either subbed or moved.
Whole game disappointing as a Blues fan. The Crusaders are smart and play the team game. They don’t make stupid handling errors when they are building momentum. They can think on their feet while the Blues are still trying to figure out how to win a line out. Might have been better to throw to the props in the front or can you roll the ball along the ground? Just thinking outside the box options that would have been better than padding Whitlock's stats. It wouldn’t have be expected and at least there would be a competition. They are not isolated in the carry. And well coached. Robinson should just play 6. Makeshift lock during the regular season but just didn’t cut it. Goodhue lacked big time. Akira’s defense is good but I wish he would run straight but then the support needs to be there to clean out the ruck. Never threw once to him and he has been a handy option in the past.
Oh well. I guess they are improving.
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@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
TBH the biggest AB selection problem is the props.
Yep.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
TBH the biggest AB selection problem is the props.
Yep.
I’m not the biggest Jager fan although I’m coming round but compare his accurate work rate to laulala. As for the blues replacement AB props they were no better and arguably worse than the 2 crusaders rookies. Given that KT is going overseas and that he is all sorts of mediocre it’s the worst AB selection since maybe Atiga in 2003.
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@Jailbreak7 thing was, the Crusaders denied the blues any opportunity to show thier game plan.
It started with the lineout, Whitelock owned it, psyched out Eklund and the blues jumpers, allowing total domination, then everything flowed on from there.
It was a masterclass from the senior players in the saders and Razor, hopefully will give Fozzie some ideas cos the Blues looked overawed like the ABS were at times last year.
