QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes
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@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Winger said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Winger said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Regarding the game. Morgans line clearances are poor. Reminds me of Gopperth. Its a key part of the game and something a 1st 5 needs to be strong at. He can't always rely on a Barrett to do it for him
Yeah, Morgan doesn't exit well with good distance with his punting, certainly a weakness in his game... which is why I prefer Love at 1st-five who gets a lot more distance with his clearing kicks.
Its a shame. Because otherwise for 21 he does well enough (he will never be a AB contender though)
But its a factor that I rate as a key for a 1st.
very important for a 10 to have a long punt,
Is it? Name me a 10 that has a long punt equal to a fullback/wing?
They should have a decent clearing kick but mostly they need accuracy (although BB seemingly doesn't)
For starters Love has a long punt, he's a 10, but that drongo Holland selects him at 15 more when he does start him - because you can basically only select 3 backs on the bench Love is very handy off the bench to cover 10 & 15, but if he does come on prefer him to slot in at lst-five... we have two very promising 10's for the future with him & Morgan.
As we know BB is a brilliant attacking runner - but doesn't really think much at all when it comes to his general kicking, instead of looking to kick the ball into space deep he kicks it directly to an opposition player, allowing them to run the ball up 30 or 40 metres before they even come in contact with one of our tacklers, that's just gifting the other side the ball & giving easy metres away.
His striking of the ball timing wise is shocking at times, punts or shots at goal... on occasions his place kicking as been awful because he rushes it so hooks the ball to the left, making it fly through the air like a wounded duck, but when he takes a bit more time & comes around the ball in a smooth arc with a good follow-through he strikes it well.Nothing to do with rushing the kick or smoothness . He takes his time but has a tendency to lean hard to the left and hold his counterbalancing (left) arm out at right angles. This causes a draw (which can be useful for a wide conversion on the left of the field). He also ends up with his hips facing away from the posts which is a big flaw for longer distances.
JB stands more upright so doesn't need as much counterbalance and he ends up more square.Disagree, you make him sound like a contortionist... naturally all goal kickers stand in a comfortable upright position before they move in... Of course it has a lot to do with not rushing too much & a smooth run in, making it easy to be in the right position to follow-through well.
Have you ever coached goalkickers and analysed their techniques? It's a bit like golf.
If you freeze frame when BB strikes the ball the line of his body is about 30 degrees off upright. JB is closer to around 10. Being leaned over can be good. You can generate distance. However unless you counter-balance with a high outside arm you will likely fall away as you strike which imparts a draw on the flight of the ball. Obviously the draw is more noticeable the further the kick travels.
When he goes for distance he also pushes his weight through the kick by hopping forward on his planted foot just after the strike but then lands with both feet at an angle whereby his hips are no longer square to the posts.Not a contortionist at all just minor adjustments needed in technique. He does work on this and can erase those flaws but can also revert to them on an off day (which we have seen plenty of)
Anyway this all has nothing to do with the thread. I just used BB as an example of a 10 that doesn't get great distance on kicks. He used to be worse but improved.
You were trying to tell everyone that 10s need a long punt which simply isn't the case. Some do have one but they aren't that common and it certainly isn't a pre-requisite. -
A long punt is nice, an accurate punt is better. And for all the muscle strength, a long lever is best. Jordie is taller than Beaudy.
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@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@nzzp said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Dan54 said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@booboo said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Haven't read the thread, and am not suggesting one incident was a major factor, but am wondering if there's any clarity on whether you can drop kick in general play?
Of course you can. But if the ref doesn’t see it as an obvious drop kick then he’ll call it a drop instead.
No different to players that fumble the ball forward but kick it before it hits the ground.There was no way Ardie was drop kicking that ball , he dropped to foot for a punt and missed it got it on bounce , ref was absolutely bang on, even I a one eyed Canes man will say that.
I agree. @booboo asked the question.
Drop kicks are a legit way of kicking the ball. You don't have to be aiming at the posts
I think the ruling is that you have to control the ball to be a drop kick.
Kinda like the Carlos knee kick, law makers have no sense of adventure
The knee kick one was outside of the laws to start with (kick is described as from lower leg) but refs had no idea what to do to start with as no one ever tried it on before Carlos.
I reckon it should be legal and would give a good option against rush defences.
I've wondered whether a surprise weapon could be a lobbed pass that is headed over the rush defence.
Could be brilliant once Jordie gets moved to 2nd five and Jordan is sprinting off his shoulder!!!
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@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Winger said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Winger said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Regarding the game. Morgans line clearances are poor. Reminds me of Gopperth. Its a key part of the game and something a 1st 5 needs to be strong at. He can't always rely on a Barrett to do it for him
Yeah, Morgan doesn't exit well with good distance with his punting, certainly a weakness in his game... which is why I prefer Love at 1st-five who gets a lot more distance with his clearing kicks.
Its a shame. Because otherwise for 21 he does well enough (he will never be a AB contender though)
But its a factor that I rate as a key for a 1st.
very important for a 10 to have a long punt,
Is it? Name me a 10 that has a long punt equal to a fullback/wing?
They should have a decent clearing kick but mostly they need accuracy (although BB seemingly doesn't)
For starters Love has a long punt, he's a 10, but that drongo Holland selects him at 15 more when he does start him - because you can basically only select 3 backs on the bench Love is very handy off the bench to cover 10 & 15, but if he does come on prefer him to slot in at lst-five... we have two very promising 10's for the future with him & Morgan.
As we know BB is a brilliant attacking runner - but doesn't really think much at all when it comes to his general kicking, instead of looking to kick the ball into space deep he kicks it directly to an opposition player, allowing them to run the ball up 30 or 40 metres before they even come in contact with one of our tacklers, that's just gifting the other side the ball & giving easy metres away.
His striking of the ball timing wise is shocking at times, punts or shots at goal... on occasions his place kicking as been awful because he rushes it so hooks the ball to the left, making it fly through the air like a wounded duck, but when he takes a bit more time & comes around the ball in a smooth arc with a good follow-through he strikes it well.Nothing to do with rushing the kick or smoothness . He takes his time but has a tendency to lean hard to the left and hold his counterbalancing (left) arm out at right angles. This causes a draw (which can be useful for a wide conversion on the left of the field). He also ends up with his hips facing away from the posts which is a big flaw for longer distances.
JB stands more upright so doesn't need as much counterbalance and he ends up more square.Disagree, you make him sound like a contortionist... naturally all goal kickers stand in a comfortable upright position before they move in... Of course it has a lot to do with not rushing too much & a smooth run in, making it easy to be in the right position to follow-through well.
Have you ever coached goalkickers and analysed their techniques? It's a bit like golf.
If you freeze frame when BB strikes the ball the line of his body is about 30 degrees off upright. JB is closer to around 10. Being leaned over can be good. You can generate distance. However unless you counter-balance with a high outside arm you will likely fall away as you strike which imparts a draw on the flight of the ball. Obviously the draw is more noticeable the further the kick travels.
When he goes for distance he also pushes his weight through the kick by hopping forward on his planted foot just after the strike but then lands with both feet at an angle whereby his hips are no longer square to the posts.Not a contortionist at all just minor adjustments needed in technique. He does work on this and can erase those flaws but can also revert to them on an off day (which we have seen plenty of)
Anyway this all has nothing to do with the thread. I just used BB as an example of a 10 that doesn't get great distance on kicks. He used to be worse but improved.
You were trying to tell everyone that 10s need a long punt which simply isn't the case. Some do have one but they aren't that common and it certainly isn't a pre-requisite.I know how to kick a ball mate, use to play plenty of rugby & soccer/football... you're overcomplicating things, as long as you have a comfortable well balanced stance & come around the ball in a smooth arc the rest takes care of it's self.
Didn't say it was all about a long punt, of course it has to be accurate, but if you can get good distance it's clearly better for your team if your 10 can exit really well... what I see too much of which is bloody pointless is when a player punts it long 60 odd metres downfield & it just goes over the side line, it allows the other side to have a quick throw, takes all your advantage away, better to sacrifice a few meters & kick the ball well out so they can't attack from broken play.
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@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Didn't say it was all about a long punt, of course it has to be accurate, but if you can get good distance it's clearly better for your team if your 10 can exit really well... what I see too much of which is bloody pointless is when a player punts it long 60 odd metres downfield & it just goes over the side line, it allows the other side to have a quick throw, takes all your advantage away, better to sacrifice a few meters & kick the ball well out so they can't attack from broken play.
Stating the bleeding obvious (again). Still not listing those 10s with huge punts I notice (there a difference between adequate and big - your missus can probably let you know about that one).
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
I know how to kick a ball mate, use to play plenty of rugby & soccer/football... you're overcomplicating things, as long as you have a comfortable well balanced stance & come around the ball in a smooth arc the rest takes care of it's self.
Teams must be wasting a lot of money on skills coaches and kicking specialists then if it is all that easy. The golf analogy was to point out that minor adjustments can make big differences. The golfers here will attest to that and even top pros get coaches in for adjustments even though they already have a well balanced stance and smooth swing.
Then you have to take into account various ball positioning options, tee heights and types, striking targets etc etc.
So why is it that some players with good stances and smooth swings struggle from 40m plus even though they can reach the distance? All those little things affect the travel of the ball. Some have a good natural technique, some need tweaking.
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@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Didn't say it was all about a long punt, of course it has to be accurate, but if you can get good distance it's clearly better for your team if your 10 can exit really well... what I see too much of which is bloody pointless is when a player punts it long 60 odd metres downfield & it just goes over the side line, it allows the other side to have a quick throw, takes all your advantage away, better to sacrifice a few meters & kick the ball well out so they can't attack from broken play.
Stating the bleeding obvious (again). Still not listing those 10s with huge punts I notice (there a difference between adequate and big - your missus can probably let you know about that one).
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
I know how to kick a ball mate, use to play plenty of rugby & soccer/football... you're overcomplicating things, as long as you have a comfortable well balanced stance & come around the ball in a smooth arc the rest takes care of it's self.
Teams must be wasting a lot of money on skills coaches and kicking specialists then if it is all that easy. The golf analogy was to point out that minor adjustments can make big differences. The golfers here will attest to that and even top pros get coaches in for adjustments even though they already have a well balanced stance and smooth swing.
Then you have to take into account various ball positioning options, tee heights and types, striking targets etc etc.
So why is it that some players with good stances and smooth swings struggle from 40m plus even though they can reach the distance? All those little things affect the travel of the ball. Some have a good natural technique, some need tweaking.
Doesn't need to be huge punts, not asking them to kick massive distances like Don Clarke did, just a very good distance to exit well... reckon whenever a team is inside their own 22 the best option is for the 1st-five to kick the ball out about the halfway mark, that way you can set your defence through a lineout.
At this level players shouldn't need skill coaches, they should be able to execute all the basic skill sets well in their position, if a player is struggling a bit with their technique in an area they only have to make small adjustments to get it right.
The only way to become good at executing any skill is to practice it a ton of times at training, until it becomes second nature... BB is a top athlete & has very good hand-eye coordination, his timing issues in kicking a ball shouldn't be so bloody poor at times though.
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@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Didn't say it was all about a long punt, of course it has to be accurate, but if you can get good distance it's clearly better for your team if your 10 can exit really well... what I see too much of which is bloody pointless is when a player punts it long 60 odd metres downfield & it just goes over the side line, it allows the other side to have a quick throw, takes all your advantage away, better to sacrifice a few meters & kick the ball well out so they can't attack from broken play.
Stating the bleeding obvious (again). Still not listing those 10s with huge punts I notice (there a difference between adequate and big - your missus can probably let you know about that one).
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
I know how to kick a ball mate, use to play plenty of rugby & soccer/football... you're overcomplicating things, as long as you have a comfortable well balanced stance & come around the ball in a smooth arc the rest takes care of it's self.
Teams must be wasting a lot of money on skills coaches and kicking specialists then if it is all that easy. The golf analogy was to point out that minor adjustments can make big differences. The golfers here will attest to that and even top pros get coaches in for adjustments even though they already have a well balanced stance and smooth swing.
Then you have to take into account various ball positioning options, tee heights and types, striking targets etc etc.
So why is it that some players with good stances and smooth swings struggle from 40m plus even though they can reach the distance? All those little things affect the travel of the ball. Some have a good natural technique, some need tweaking.
Doesn't need to be huge punts, not asking them to kick massive distances like Don Clarke did, just a very good distance to exit well... reckon whenever a team is inside their own 22 the best option is for the 1st-five to kick the ball out about the halfway mark, that way you can set your defence through a lineout.
At this level players shouldn't need skill coaches, they should be able to execute all the basic skill sets well in their position, if a player is struggling a bit with their technique in an area of their position they only have to make small adjustments to get it right.
That’s hilarious. So we should only select finished products? You do realize that it is skill coaches that provide those minor adjustments through analysis? Our kicking has certainly gone downhill since Mick Byrne departed
The only way to become good at executing any skill is to practice it a ton of times at training, until it becomes second nature... BB is a top athlete & has very good hand-eye coordination, his timing issues in kicking a ball shouldn't be so bloody poor at times though.
…..and back to square one. You can practice a flaw over and over and you will still have a flaw
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@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Didn't say it was all about a long punt, of course it has to be accurate, but if you can get good distance it's clearly better for your team if your 10 can exit really well... what I see too much of which is bloody pointless is when a player punts it long 60 odd metres downfield & it just goes over the side line, it allows the other side to have a quick throw, takes all your advantage away, better to sacrifice a few meters & kick the ball well out so they can't attack from broken play.
Stating the bleeding obvious (again). Still not listing those 10s with huge punts I notice (there a difference between adequate and big - your missus can probably let you know about that one).
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
I know how to kick a ball mate, use to play plenty of rugby & soccer/football... you're overcomplicating things, as long as you have a comfortable well balanced stance & come around the ball in a smooth arc the rest takes care of it's self.
Teams must be wasting a lot of money on skills coaches and kicking specialists then if it is all that easy. The golf analogy was to point out that minor adjustments can make big differences. The golfers here will attest to that and even top pros get coaches in for adjustments even though they already have a well balanced stance and smooth swing.
Then you have to take into account various ball positioning options, tee heights and types, striking targets etc etc.
So why is it that some players with good stances and smooth swings struggle from 40m plus even though they can reach the distance? All those little things affect the travel of the ball. Some have a good natural technique, some need tweaking.
Doesn't need to be huge punts, not asking them to kick massive distances like Don Clarke did, just a very good distance to exit well... reckon whenever a team is inside their own 22 the best option is for the 1st-five to kick the ball out about the halfway mark, that way you can set your defence through a lineout.
At this level players shouldn't need skill coaches, they should be able to execute all the basic skill sets well in their position, if a player is struggling a bit with their technique in an area of their position they only have to make small adjustments to get it right.
That’s hilarious. So we should only select finished products? You do realize that it is skill coaches that provide those minor adjustments through analysis? Our kicking has certainly gone downhill since Mick Byrne departed
The only way to become good at executing any skill is to practice it a ton of times at training, until it becomes second nature... BB is a top athlete & has very good hand-eye coordination, his timing issues in kicking a ball shouldn't be so bloody poor at times though.
…..and back to square one. You can practice a flaw over and over and you will still have a flaw
Mate, if they can't do the basics well at this level they shouldn't be playing the game, you do realize you can only become better at anything by practicing it heaps, that includes any ones job as well.
Naturally when player is practicing a skill they are always looking to improve... so of course they would be focusing on the right way to do it, be idiotic to keep repeating the same mistakes.
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@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Didn't say it was all about a long punt, of course it has to be accurate, but if you can get good distance it's clearly better for your team if your 10 can exit really well... what I see too much of which is bloody pointless is when a player punts it long 60 odd metres downfield & it just goes over the side line, it allows the other side to have a quick throw, takes all your advantage away, better to sacrifice a few meters & kick the ball well out so they can't attack from broken play.
Stating the bleeding obvious (again). Still not listing those 10s with huge punts I notice (there a difference between adequate and big - your missus can probably let you know about that one).
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
I know how to kick a ball mate, use to play plenty of rugby & soccer/football... you're overcomplicating things, as long as you have a comfortable well balanced stance & come around the ball in a smooth arc the rest takes care of it's self.
Teams must be wasting a lot of money on skills coaches and kicking specialists then if it is all that easy. The golf analogy was to point out that minor adjustments can make big differences. The golfers here will attest to that and even top pros get coaches in for adjustments even though they already have a well balanced stance and smooth swing.
Then you have to take into account various ball positioning options, tee heights and types, striking targets etc etc.
So why is it that some players with good stances and smooth swings struggle from 40m plus even though they can reach the distance? All those little things affect the travel of the ball. Some have a good natural technique, some need tweaking.
Doesn't need to be huge punts, not asking them to kick massive distances like Don Clarke did, just a very good distance to exit well... reckon whenever a team is inside their own 22 the best option is for the 1st-five to kick the ball out about the halfway mark, that way you can set your defence through a lineout.
At this level players shouldn't need skill coaches, they should be able to execute all the basic skill sets well in their position, if a player is struggling a bit with their technique in an area of their position they only have to make small adjustments to get it right.
That’s hilarious. So we should only select finished products? You do realize that it is skill coaches that provide those minor adjustments through analysis? Our kicking has certainly gone downhill since Mick Byrne departed
The only way to become good at executing any skill is to practice it a ton of times at training, until it becomes second nature... BB is a top athlete & has very good hand-eye coordination, his timing issues in kicking a ball shouldn't be so bloody poor at times though.
…..and back to square one. You can practice a flaw over and over and you will still have a flaw
Mate, if they can't do the basics well at this level they shouldn't be playing the game, you do realize you can only become better at anything by practicing it heaps, that includes any ones job as well.
Naturally when player is practicing a skill they are always looking to improve... so of course they would be focusing on the right way to do it, be idiotic to keep repeating the same mistakes.
But we aren't talking basics we are talking about getting better. Of course you need to practice improvements but you seem to think that you can practice away the small technique flaws that will make incremental improvements.
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@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Didn't say it was all about a long punt, of course it has to be accurate, but if you can get good distance it's clearly better for your team if your 10 can exit really well... what I see too much of which is bloody pointless is when a player punts it long 60 odd metres downfield & it just goes over the side line, it allows the other side to have a quick throw, takes all your advantage away, better to sacrifice a few meters & kick the ball well out so they can't attack from broken play.
Stating the bleeding obvious (again). Still not listing those 10s with huge punts I notice (there a difference between adequate and big - your missus can probably let you know about that one).
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
I know how to kick a ball mate, use to play plenty of rugby & soccer/football... you're overcomplicating things, as long as you have a comfortable well balanced stance & come around the ball in a smooth arc the rest takes care of it's self.
Teams must be wasting a lot of money on skills coaches and kicking specialists then if it is all that easy. The golf analogy was to point out that minor adjustments can make big differences. The golfers here will attest to that and even top pros get coaches in for adjustments even though they already have a well balanced stance and smooth swing.
Then you have to take into account various ball positioning options, tee heights and types, striking targets etc etc.
So why is it that some players with good stances and smooth swings struggle from 40m plus even though they can reach the distance? All those little things affect the travel of the ball. Some have a good natural technique, some need tweaking.
Doesn't need to be huge punts, not asking them to kick massive distances like Don Clarke did, just a very good distance to exit well... reckon whenever a team is inside their own 22 the best option is for the 1st-five to kick the ball out about the halfway mark, that way you can set your defence through a lineout.
At this level players shouldn't need skill coaches, they should be able to execute all the basic skill sets well in their position, if a player is struggling a bit with their technique in an area of their position they only have to make small adjustments to get it right.
That’s hilarious. So we should only select finished products? You do realize that it is skill coaches that provide those minor adjustments through analysis? Our kicking has certainly gone downhill since Mick Byrne departed
The only way to become good at executing any skill is to practice it a ton of times at training, until it becomes second nature... BB is a top athlete & has very good hand-eye coordination, his timing issues in kicking a ball shouldn't be so bloody poor at times though.
…..and back to square one. You can practice a flaw over and over and you will still have a flaw
Mate, if they can't do the basics well at this level they shouldn't be playing the game, you do realize you can only become better at anything by practicing it heaps, that includes any ones job as well.
Naturally when player is practicing a skill they are always looking to improve... so of course they would be focusing on the right way to do it, be idiotic to keep repeating the same mistakes.
But we aren't talking basics we are talking about getting better. Of course you need to practice improvements but you seem to think that you can practice away the small technique flaws that will make incremental improvements.
Sport isn't rocket science though... players should have the good sense to analsye themselves through video footage etc to work out what they're doing wrong, then make that small adjustment to execute that skill well.
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@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Didn't say it was all about a long punt, of course it has to be accurate, but if you can get good distance it's clearly better for your team if your 10 can exit really well... what I see too much of which is bloody pointless is when a player punts it long 60 odd metres downfield & it just goes over the side line, it allows the other side to have a quick throw, takes all your advantage away, better to sacrifice a few meters & kick the ball well out so they can't attack from broken play.
Stating the bleeding obvious (again). Still not listing those 10s with huge punts I notice (there a difference between adequate and big - your missus can probably let you know about that one).
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
I know how to kick a ball mate, use to play plenty of rugby & soccer/football... you're overcomplicating things, as long as you have a comfortable well balanced stance & come around the ball in a smooth arc the rest takes care of it's self.
Teams must be wasting a lot of money on skills coaches and kicking specialists then if it is all that easy. The golf analogy was to point out that minor adjustments can make big differences. The golfers here will attest to that and even top pros get coaches in for adjustments even though they already have a well balanced stance and smooth swing.
Then you have to take into account various ball positioning options, tee heights and types, striking targets etc etc.
So why is it that some players with good stances and smooth swings struggle from 40m plus even though they can reach the distance? All those little things affect the travel of the ball. Some have a good natural technique, some need tweaking.
Doesn't need to be huge punts, not asking them to kick massive distances like Don Clarke did, just a very good distance to exit well... reckon whenever a team is inside their own 22 the best option is for the 1st-five to kick the ball out about the halfway mark, that way you can set your defence through a lineout.
At this level players shouldn't need skill coaches, they should be able to execute all the basic skill sets well in their position, if a player is struggling a bit with their technique in an area of their position they only have to make small adjustments to get it right.
That’s hilarious. So we should only select finished products? You do realize that it is skill coaches that provide those minor adjustments through analysis? Our kicking has certainly gone downhill since Mick Byrne departed
The only way to become good at executing any skill is to practice it a ton of times at training, until it becomes second nature... BB is a top athlete & has very good hand-eye coordination, his timing issues in kicking a ball shouldn't be so bloody poor at times though.
…..and back to square one. You can practice a flaw over and over and you will still have a flaw
Mate, if they can't do the basics well at this level they shouldn't be playing the game, you do realize you can only become better at anything by practicing it heaps, that includes any ones job as well.
Naturally when player is practicing a skill they are always looking to improve... so of course they would be focusing on the right way to do it, be idiotic to keep repeating the same mistakes.
But we aren't talking basics we are talking about getting better. Of course you need to practice improvements but you seem to think that you can practice away the small technique flaws that will make incremental improvements.
Sport isn't rocket science though... players should have the good sense to analsye themselves through video footage etc to work out what they're doing wrong, then make that small adjustment to execute that skill well.
Tell that to the world's best golfers, runners, skiers, tennis players etc etc all use specialist coaches to find improvements and correct faults. I think you may be well out of touch with the modern professional sporting world.
Sports people are often too busy on all the other aspects of performance to coach themselves even if they were bio-mechanical and technique experts. -
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Didn't say it was all about a long punt, of course it has to be accurate, but if you can get good distance it's clearly better for your team if your 10 can exit really well... what I see too much of which is bloody pointless is when a player punts it long 60 odd metres downfield & it just goes over the side line, it allows the other side to have a quick throw, takes all your advantage away, better to sacrifice a few meters & kick the ball well out so they can't attack from broken play.
Stating the bleeding obvious (again). Still not listing those 10s with huge punts I notice (there a difference between adequate and big - your missus can probably let you know about that one).
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
I know how to kick a ball mate, use to play plenty of rugby & soccer/football... you're overcomplicating things, as long as you have a comfortable well balanced stance & come around the ball in a smooth arc the rest takes care of it's self.
Teams must be wasting a lot of money on skills coaches and kicking specialists then if it is all that easy. The golf analogy was to point out that minor adjustments can make big differences. The golfers here will attest to that and even top pros get coaches in for adjustments even though they already have a well balanced stance and smooth swing.
Then you have to take into account various ball positioning options, tee heights and types, striking targets etc etc.
So why is it that some players with good stances and smooth swings struggle from 40m plus even though they can reach the distance? All those little things affect the travel of the ball. Some have a good natural technique, some need tweaking.
Doesn't need to be huge punts, not asking them to kick massive distances like Don Clarke did, just a very good distance to exit well... reckon whenever a team is inside their own 22 the best option is for the 1st-five to kick the ball out about the halfway mark, that way you can set your defence through a lineout.
At this level players shouldn't need skill coaches, they should be able to execute all the basic skill sets well in their position, if a player is struggling a bit with their technique in an area of their position they only have to make small adjustments to get it right.
That’s hilarious. So we should only select finished products? You do realize that it is skill coaches that provide those minor adjustments through analysis? Our kicking has certainly gone downhill since Mick Byrne departed
The only way to become good at executing any skill is to practice it a ton of times at training, until it becomes second nature... BB is a top athlete & has very good hand-eye coordination, his timing issues in kicking a ball shouldn't be so bloody poor at times though.
…..and back to square one. You can practice a flaw over and over and you will still have a flaw
Mate, if they can't do the basics well at this level they shouldn't be playing the game, you do realize you can only become better at anything by practicing it heaps, that includes any ones job as well.
Naturally when player is practicing a skill they are always looking to improve... so of course they would be focusing on the right way to do it, be idiotic to keep repeating the same mistakes.
But we aren't talking basics we are talking about getting better. Of course you need to practice improvements but you seem to think that you can practice away the small technique flaws that will make incremental improvements.
Sport isn't rocket science though... players should have the good sense to analsye themselves through video footage etc to work out what they're doing wrong, then make that small adjustment to execute that skill well.
Tell that to the world's best golfers, runners, skiers, tennis players etc etc all use specialist coaches to find improvements and correct faults. I think you may be well out of touch with the modern professional sporting world.
Sports people are often too busy on all the other aspects of performance to coach themselves even if they were bio-mechanical and technique experts.Disagree, yeah things have changed a fair bit in the professional era... but the same principal still applies, the players are the ones that are out there playing no matter what the sport is, not their coaches... it's up to them to put the real hard yakka in to get their technique right to execute well, sure you can get good ideas from coaches & other players too, then use the best parts from them that suit you.
All the top sportsmen should be always looking to improve, which makes them focus in keeping up their high standards. -
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Didn't say it was all about a long punt, of course it has to be accurate, but if you can get good distance it's clearly better for your team if your 10 can exit really well... what I see too much of which is bloody pointless is when a player punts it long 60 odd metres downfield & it just goes over the side line, it allows the other side to have a quick throw, takes all your advantage away, better to sacrifice a few meters & kick the ball well out so they can't attack from broken play.
Stating the bleeding obvious (again). Still not listing those 10s with huge punts I notice (there a difference between adequate and big - your missus can probably let you know about that one).
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
I know how to kick a ball mate, use to play plenty of rugby & soccer/football... you're overcomplicating things, as long as you have a comfortable well balanced stance & come around the ball in a smooth arc the rest takes care of it's self.
Teams must be wasting a lot of money on skills coaches and kicking specialists then if it is all that easy. The golf analogy was to point out that minor adjustments can make big differences. The golfers here will attest to that and even top pros get coaches in for adjustments even though they already have a well balanced stance and smooth swing.
Then you have to take into account various ball positioning options, tee heights and types, striking targets etc etc.
So why is it that some players with good stances and smooth swings struggle from 40m plus even though they can reach the distance? All those little things affect the travel of the ball. Some have a good natural technique, some need tweaking.
Doesn't need to be huge punts, not asking them to kick massive distances like Don Clarke did, just a very good distance to exit well... reckon whenever a team is inside their own 22 the best option is for the 1st-five to kick the ball out about the halfway mark, that way you can set your defence through a lineout.
At this level players shouldn't need skill coaches, they should be able to execute all the basic skill sets well in their position, if a player is struggling a bit with their technique in an area of their position they only have to make small adjustments to get it right.
That’s hilarious. So we should only select finished products? You do realize that it is skill coaches that provide those minor adjustments through analysis? Our kicking has certainly gone downhill since Mick Byrne departed
The only way to become good at executing any skill is to practice it a ton of times at training, until it becomes second nature... BB is a top athlete & has very good hand-eye coordination, his timing issues in kicking a ball shouldn't be so bloody poor at times though.
…..and back to square one. You can practice a flaw over and over and you will still have a flaw
Mate, if they can't do the basics well at this level they shouldn't be playing the game, you do realize you can only become better at anything by practicing it heaps, that includes any ones job as well.
Naturally when player is practicing a skill they are always looking to improve... so of course they would be focusing on the right way to do it, be idiotic to keep repeating the same mistakes.
But we aren't talking basics we are talking about getting better. Of course you need to practice improvements but you seem to think that you can practice away the small technique flaws that will make incremental improvements.
Sport isn't rocket science though... players should have the good sense to analsye themselves through video footage etc to work out what they're doing wrong, then make that small adjustment to execute that skill well.
Tell that to the world's best golfers, runners, skiers, tennis players etc etc all use specialist coaches to find improvements and correct faults. I think you may be well out of touch with the modern professional sporting world.
Sports people are often too busy on all the other aspects of performance to coach themselves even if they were bio-mechanical and technique experts.Disagree, yeah things have changed a fair bit in the professional era... but the same principal still applies, the players are the ones that are out there playing no matter what the sport is, not their coaches... it's up to them to put the real hard yakka in to get their technique right to execute well, sure you can get good ideas from coaches & other players too, then use the best parts from them that suit you.
All the top sportsmen should be always looking to improve, which makes them focus in keeping up their high standards.I'm really not sure what you are trying to say.
Seems to be that hard yakka alone will improve technique (which is incorrect)
I've had enough of banging my head against this wall.
-
@Crucial yep the best one to watch is the NBA guys, they hire multiple personal coaches each to go over the minor details in dribbling shot slections and setups. its really amazing.
Kicking is a massive skill with a number of components that could go wrong, go watch rugby bricks and see peter breens take on alot of the kicking and passing skills. If you dont know what your looking for then you wont find it. Golf swings and kicking are extremely similar skills overall
-
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
Didn't say it was all about a long punt, of course it has to be accurate, but if you can get good distance it's clearly better for your team if your 10 can exit really well... what I see too much of which is bloody pointless is when a player punts it long 60 odd metres downfield & it just goes over the side line, it allows the other side to have a quick throw, takes all your advantage away, better to sacrifice a few meters & kick the ball well out so they can't attack from broken play.
Stating the bleeding obvious (again). Still not listing those 10s with huge punts I notice (there a difference between adequate and big - your missus can probably let you know about that one).
@NZbloke said in QF Brumbies vs Hurricanes:
I know how to kick a ball mate, use to play plenty of rugby & soccer/football... you're overcomplicating things, as long as you have a comfortable well balanced stance & come around the ball in a smooth arc the rest takes care of it's self.
Teams must be wasting a lot of money on skills coaches and kicking specialists then if it is all that easy. The golf analogy was to point out that minor adjustments can make big differences. The golfers here will attest to that and even top pros get coaches in for adjustments even though they already have a well balanced stance and smooth swing.
Then you have to take into account various ball positioning options, tee heights and types, striking targets etc etc.
So why is it that some players with good stances and smooth swings struggle from 40m plus even though they can reach the distance? All those little things affect the travel of the ball. Some have a good natural technique, some need tweaking.
Doesn't need to be huge punts, not asking them to kick massive distances like Don Clarke did, just a very good distance to exit well... reckon whenever a team is inside their own 22 the best option is for the 1st-five to kick the ball out about the halfway mark, that way you can set your defence through a lineout.
At this level players shouldn't need skill coaches, they should be able to execute all the basic skill sets well in their position, if a player is struggling a bit with their technique in an area of their position they only have to make small adjustments to get it right.
That’s hilarious. So we should only select finished products? You do realize that it is skill coaches that provide those minor adjustments through analysis? Our kicking has certainly gone downhill since Mick Byrne departed
The only way to become good at executing any skill is to practice it a ton of times at training, until it becomes second nature... BB is a top athlete & has very good hand-eye coordination, his timing issues in kicking a ball shouldn't be so bloody poor at times though.
…..and back to square one. You can practice a flaw over and over and you will still have a flaw
Mate, if they can't do the basics well at this level they shouldn't be playing the game, you do realize you can only become better at anything by practicing it heaps, that includes any ones job as well.
Naturally when player is practicing a skill they are always looking to improve... so of course they would be focusing on the right way to do it, be idiotic to keep repeating the same mistakes.
But we aren't talking basics we are talking about getting better. Of course you need to practice improvements but you seem to think that you can practice away the small technique flaws that will make incremental improvements.
Sport isn't rocket science though... players should have the good sense to analsye themselves through video footage etc to work out what they're doing wrong, then make that small adjustment to execute that skill well.
Tell that to the world's best golfers, runners, skiers, tennis players etc etc all use specialist coaches to find improvements and correct faults. I think you may be well out of touch with the modern professional sporting world.
Sports people are often too busy on all the other aspects of performance to coach themselves even if they were bio-mechanical and technique experts.Disagree, yeah things have changed a fair bit in the professional era... but the same principal still applies, the players are the ones that are out there playing no matter what the sport is, not their coaches... it's up to them to put the real hard yakka in to get their technique right to execute well, sure you can get good ideas from coaches & other players too, then use the best parts from them that suit you.
All the top sportsmen should be always looking to improve, which makes them focus in keeping up their high standards.I'm really not sure what you are trying to say.
Seems to be that hard yakka alone will improve technique (which is incorrect)
I've had enough of banging my head against this wall.
Of course it's more than just about hard yakka, it's obviously a combo of things... if a player has a poor habit or technique the problem has to be identified first, then the player has to have the mindset to want to change to a technique that works for a certain skill.
Coaches can also stuff up a players natural game, which is why you want to get info from other players too & use the best parts for yourself - you were talking about other sports, one of the most unusual techniques I've seen in sport would be Andrew Jones in cricket hitting 4's while both his feet were off the ground, you wouldn't recommend it, but it worked great for him... the first time Jones went to Aussie their media were taking the piss out of him in the buildup matches, but he had the last laugh scoring a hundred in the 1st test.
Yeah, this debate is just going around in circles, no point debating it anymore.
