Hurricanes vs Rebels
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@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes. -
@foobaNZ said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 that perspective doesn't really sit well with me.
If I looked at the group, I'd say Blackwell and Princep are probably the best trainers. But is Blackwell better than IWL? No. Yet Blackwell is about an automatic selection as Ardie is in the Canes.
Is Princep better than any other loosie? No
I think having an outsider view on selection helps - you don't get clouded by what you see during the week. Not that it isn't important, but training performance is not game day performance.
Take my word for it mate, after a reasonable amount of years coaching, I can assure you that training comes into it a fair bit. Someone who doesn't do the work at training will not put in the effort in the game when things get real tough. I always reckon one of the things that stuck out for me at test matches with ABs, I tended to get there wll before game, and when they were playing the first 2 out on field to start warming up etc were Richie McCaw and Dan Carter. Good players do not take short cuts in preparation or training ever!! Even today you look at someone like aaron Smith, generally 30 minutes ahead of rest of Highlanders at gym etc to do is own extras he feels he needs. An outsider's view is always good, (hence why Fox was bought into Abs panel)but only to make sure you think of and more angles but would never trump would never be more important than people who set game plan etc.
I not saying all the selections are ones I agree with and would probably agree with your selections from my limited knowledge, but I see most games on tv so really only often see what that shows me not the real picture. I was a real IWL goer but not overly convinced, and Scrafton I was yelling from rooftops when we scored him, but he disappointed me a little in game I saw him live.
See I think Canes have done better than I thought they would, so I guess someone has to get some of the credit. -
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes.Outside the top 4 isn't the right spot for us, every team wants to finish in the top 4 to get a home game in the playoffs - yeah, you do have factors like injury & Covid etc, but we still haven't given our best combos enough game time together, we certainly had the opportunities to do that... in our last match crucial we select our best 15 available so we get some flow into our game going into the business end of the comp.
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@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes.Outside the top 4 isn't the right spot for us, every team wants to finish in the top 4 to get a home game in the playoffs - yeah, you do have factors like injury & Covid etc, but we still haven't given our best combos enough game time together, we certainly had the opportunities to do that... in our last match crucial we select our best 15 available so we get some flow into our game going into the business end of the comp.
I would add the best thing I have seen this year is the rise of Aidan Morgan, as I think he is coming on well, and 10 has been a missing link since BB went, Love looked ok at times last year, but seems better at 15, Morgan I know was struggling with injury early on and still only a kid , but think he will be good value.. JGB seems a limited player, but wouldn't knock him too much as he seems a 3rd 10 in a squad who had to play because of injuries etc.
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@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes.Outside the top 4 isn't the right spot for us, every team wants to finish in the top 4 to get a home game in the playoffs - yeah, you do have factors like injury & Covid etc, but we still haven't given our best combos enough game time together, we certainly had the opportunities to do that... in our last match crucial we select our best 15 available so we get some flow into our game going into the business end of the comp.
You may not end up outside the top 4 and if you do it will be squarely on the loss to Moana.
No way can you argue that you are up there with Saders, Blues and Brumbies.
Like the Chiefs your level is 4 or 5 and that's where you will end up.
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@Winger said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial we did beat the Blues this year though.
But agree the teams you mentioned are at a diff level this year so far
And Chiefs beat Saders to even that up.
Difference in table is the Canes/Chiefs game or MP/Canes.
No huge blame on coach really even if some selections have baffled fans. -
@Crucial agreed, the Canes and Chiefs seem like two teams bumbling under the surface but it doesn’t mean they can’t upset those top three teams on their day.
The quarter final between the Canes and Chiefs in a couple weeks (unless something outrageous happens) could almost be won by a flip of a coin. I’m only backing the Canes as they’ve shown more form lately and seem to be on an upward curve.
However, getting Rettalick and Cane fit will be massive for the Chiefs at home.
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@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes.Outside the top 4 isn't the right spot for us, every team wants to finish in the top 4 to get a home game in the playoffs - yeah, you do have factors like injury & Covid etc, but we still haven't given our best combos enough game time together, we certainly had the opportunities to do that... in our last match crucial we select our best 15 available so we get some flow into our game going into the business end of the comp.
You may not end up outside the top 4 and if you do it will be squarely on the loss to Moana.
No way can you argue that you are up there with Saders, Blues and Brumbies.
Like the Chiefs your level is 4 or 5 and that's where you will end up.
Even if we win the last one can't see us making the top 4 now... for that to be the case the Chiefs would have to be well off their game & the Drua would have to be at their very best, not going to happen.
Canes are well capable of knocking over any of those 3... the big diff for us this year is that our front row is much better, also we have decent propping depth off the bench, making our scrum far more stable, giving our dangerous backs a much better scrum platform to attack from.
Brumbies are a negative/spoiling team - only watched the first half, after that period the Blues should've been comfortably ahead of them on the scoreboard... the only reason they weren't was because that incompetent ref constantly allowed the Brumbies to cheat near their own goal line, they were coming in from the side, killing the ball on the deck, bloody joke, they only got one yellow card, could've easily had more, or had penalty tries awarded against them.
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@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes.Outside the top 4 isn't the right spot for us, every team wants to finish in the top 4 to get a home game in the playoffs - yeah, you do have factors like injury & Covid etc, but we still haven't given our best combos enough game time together, we certainly had the opportunities to do that... in our last match crucial we select our best 15 available so we get some flow into our game going into the business end of the comp.
You may not end up outside the top 4 and if you do it will be squarely on the loss to Moana.
No way can you argue that you are up there with Saders, Blues and Brumbies.
Like the Chiefs your level is 4 or 5 and that's where you will end up.
Even if we win the last one can't see us making the top 4 now... for that to be the case the Chiefs would have to be well off their game & the Drua would have to be at their very best, not going to happen.
Canes are well capable of knocking over any of those 3... the big diff for us this year is that our front row is much better, also we have decent propping depth off the bench, making our scrum far more stable, giving our dangerous backs a much better scrum platform to attack from.
Brumbies are a negative/spoiling team - only watched the first half, after that period the Blues should've been comfortably ahead of them on the scoreboard... the only reason they weren't was because that incompetent ref constantly allowed the Brumbies to cheat near their own goal line, they were coming in from the side, killing the ball on the deck, bloody joke, they only got one yellow card, could've easily had more, or had penalty tries awarded against them.
Ignoring the second part of your post (belongs on another thread and no relevance to the discussion about the Canes)
Yeah, Canes (like Chiefs) are capable of beating the top three sides but it requires those sides to be off their game (Saders v Chiefs) or drop their bundle (Blues v Canes)
Those top three sides playing close to their best will beat the sides 4 and below 90% of te time.I am realistic about the Chiefs 'ranking'. Our back three weakness gets exposed often. We aren't complete.
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10. -
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes.Outside the top 4 isn't the right spot for us, every team wants to finish in the top 4 to get a home game in the playoffs - yeah, you do have factors like injury & Covid etc, but we still haven't given our best combos enough game time together, we certainly had the opportunities to do that... in our last match crucial we select our best 15 available so we get some flow into our game going into the business end of the comp.
You may not end up outside the top 4 and if you do it will be squarely on the loss to Moana.
No way can you argue that you are up there with Saders, Blues and Brumbies.
Like the Chiefs your level is 4 or 5 and that's where you will end up.
Even if we win the last one can't see us making the top 4 now... for that to be the case the Chiefs would have to be well off their game & the Drua would have to be at their very best, not going to happen.
Canes are well capable of knocking over any of those 3... the big diff for us this year is that our front row is much better, also we have decent propping depth off the bench, making our scrum far more stable, giving our dangerous backs a much better scrum platform to attack from.
Brumbies are a negative/spoiling team - only watched the first half, after that period the Blues should've been comfortably ahead of them on the scoreboard... the only reason they weren't was because that incompetent ref constantly allowed the Brumbies to cheat near their own goal line, they were coming in from the side, killing the ball on the deck, bloody joke, they only got one yellow card, could've easily had more, or had penalty tries awarded against them.
Ignoring the second part of your post (belongs on another thread and no relevance to the discussion about the Canes)
Yeah, Canes (like Chiefs) are capable of beating the top three sides but it requires those sides to be off their game (Saders v Chiefs) or drop their bundle (Blues v Canes)
Those top three sides playing close to their best will beat the sides 4 and below 90% of te time.I am realistic about the Chiefs 'ranking'. Our back three weakness gets exposed often. We aren't complete.
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.So basically the same weaknesses we've always had, a few years with BB aside
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@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes.Outside the top 4 isn't the right spot for us, every team wants to finish in the top 4 to get a home game in the playoffs - yeah, you do have factors like injury & Covid etc, but we still haven't given our best combos enough game time together, we certainly had the opportunities to do that... in our last match crucial we select our best 15 available so we get some flow into our game going into the business end of the comp.
You may not end up outside the top 4 and if you do it will be squarely on the loss to Moana.
No way can you argue that you are up there with Saders, Blues and Brumbies.
Like the Chiefs your level is 4 or 5 and that's where you will end up.
Even if we win the last one can't see us making the top 4 now... for that to be the case the Chiefs would have to be well off their game & the Drua would have to be at their very best, not going to happen.
Canes are well capable of knocking over any of those 3... the big diff for us this year is that our front row is much better, also we have decent propping depth off the bench, making our scrum far more stable, giving our dangerous backs a much better scrum platform to attack from.
Brumbies are a negative/spoiling team - only watched the first half, after that period the Blues should've been comfortably ahead of them on the scoreboard... the only reason they weren't was because that incompetent ref constantly allowed the Brumbies to cheat near their own goal line, they were coming in from the side, killing the ball on the deck, bloody joke, they only got one yellow card, could've easily had more, or had penalty tries awarded against them.
Ignoring the second part of your post (belongs on another thread and no relevance to the discussion about the Canes)
Yeah, Canes (like Chiefs) are capable of beating the top three sides but it requires those sides to be off their game (Saders v Chiefs) or drop their bundle (Blues v Canes)
Those top three sides playing close to their best will beat the sides 4 and below 90% of te time.I am realistic about the Chiefs 'ranking'. Our back three weakness gets exposed often. We aren't complete.
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.So basically the same weaknesses we've always had, a few years with BB aside
Yup. In the years when the loosies were good the locks were below par.
It's funny how after all these years the recruitment in these areas has always fallen short. Ardie fell in their lap. -
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes.Outside the top 4 isn't the right spot for us, every team wants to finish in the top 4 to get a home game in the playoffs - yeah, you do have factors like injury & Covid etc, but we still haven't given our best combos enough game time together, we certainly had the opportunities to do that... in our last match crucial we select our best 15 available so we get some flow into our game going into the business end of the comp.
You may not end up outside the top 4 and if you do it will be squarely on the loss to Moana.
No way can you argue that you are up there with Saders, Blues and Brumbies.
Like the Chiefs your level is 4 or 5 and that's where you will end up.
Even if we win the last one can't see us making the top 4 now... for that to be the case the Chiefs would have to be well off their game & the Drua would have to be at their very best, not going to happen.
Canes are well capable of knocking over any of those 3... the big diff for us this year is that our front row is much better, also we have decent propping depth off the bench, making our scrum far more stable, giving our dangerous backs a much better scrum platform to attack from.
Brumbies are a negative/spoiling team - only watched the first half, after that period the Blues should've been comfortably ahead of them on the scoreboard... the only reason they weren't was because that incompetent ref constantly allowed the Brumbies to cheat near their own goal line, they were coming in from the side, killing the ball on the deck, bloody joke, they only got one yellow card, could've easily had more, or had penalty tries awarded against them.
Ignoring the second part of your post (belongs on another thread and no relevance to the discussion about the Canes)
Yeah, Canes (like Chiefs) are capable of beating the top three sides but it requires those sides to be off their game (Saders v Chiefs) or drop their bundle (Blues v Canes)
Those top three sides playing close to their best will beat the sides 4 and below 90% of te time.I am realistic about the Chiefs 'ranking'. Our back three weakness gets exposed often. We aren't complete.
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.So basically the same weaknesses we've always had, a few years with BB aside
Yup. In the years when the loosies were good the locks were below par.
It's funny how after all these years the recruitment in these areas has always fallen short. Ardie fell in their lap.We've generally had very good or excellent loose forwards, very good or excellent 9's, midfielders and wings, a smattering of very good or excellent front row forwards, but predominantly journeymen in the tight 5. That meant we could beat stronger teams like the Saders on a semi-regular basis. But when it came to winning trophy time we were more often than not found out
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@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.Our locks & Loosies are not a weakness in the Canes... the problem there is having a coach changing the combos in those areas too much so we lose cohesion, if we selected the right locks & loosies we'd be bloody good in those positions.
Of course you need a good 10 to run the ship, it's not just about the 1st-five though, both playmakers 9 & 10 have to do the job well.
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@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.Our locks & Loosies are not a weakness in the Canes... the problem there is having a coach changing the combos in those areas too much so we lose cohesion, if we selected the right locks & loosies we'd be bloody good in those positions.
Of course you need a good 10 to run the ship, it's not just about the 1st-five though, both playmakers 9 & 10 have to do the job well.
Point was that your expectations should be more realistic given the lack of a class 10. No one wins (or sits high in a RR table) in this comp without one. Look at the years of pain and frustration the Blues went through.
Locks are definitely a weakness. How many top level locks do the Canes have? How many are demanding being looked at for higher honours? SFA.This rubbish of 'if it wasn't for the coach we would be higher up the table is just that. Maybe your coach is rubbish but he also has your team pretty much in the spot that they should be by relative strength excepting a poor performance against MP.
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@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
I would argue that the Canes have weakness in the locks and loosies. Good but not as good as the better teams.
Since Super rugby started it has been clear that a class 10 is required to win the comp. Neither Chiefs or Canes have an international level 10.Our locks & Loosies are not a weakness in the Canes... the problem there is having a coach changing the combos in those areas too much so we lose cohesion, if we selected the right locks & loosies we'd be bloody good in those positions.
Of course you need a good 10 to run the ship, it's not just about the 1st-five though, both playmakers 9 & 10 have to do the job well.
Geez I wish our locks were better, they are all competent super players at best. As Crucial says, 10 has been a big problem for Canes as well, I think Morgan may turn out alright, but probably needs a year or 2 to get right on top of game.
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@Crucial I would argue that inexperience in our loose forwards is probably more of the issue than it being a real weakness. It hasn't helped that Flanders and Iose were injured early on in the campaign, but I've felt those that have come in i.e. Howden, Labausher (despite being really young) have put in big shifts for us and haven't looked out of place at all. I think we are actually growing some really strong depth in that department, whether we can keep all the talent though remains to be seen.
I think the biggest issue is that Holland seems like he needs to play Ardie at 8, which means we need to start either Kirifi, or Gibson who are probably the more underwhelming loose forwards in our arsenal. This, along with his continuing support of the very limited Prinsep is why we never really get to see the best of the Canes in this department. (This is probably the biggest frustration as a Canes fan).
Early on in the season, fans were pushing for a Flanders, Savea and Iose combo. Personally I think the best loose forward combo the Canes have is 6. Howden, 7. Savea and 8. Flanders, a combination that I think will be up there with the best in the competition. Whether we actually get to see it though is another question altogether.
The big one for the Canes in the off-season in terms of recruitment is our tight-five (no surprises there). I've been really impressed with Justin Sangster this year and it's been great to see IWL back from injury. I'm sure we will see more of Dominic Bird next season, but at the end of the day we really need to find a top class lock, and another couple of class options in the propping department to help build depth.
Aiden Morgan and Ruben Love are the answer IMO, they just need more time in the saddle. Aiden Morgan is definitely mature beyond his years in the way he goes about things which is probably why he's been able to make the step up to Super Rugby more easier than others. I think the big thing for the Canes is who they pick as their general moving forward. If I had to pick right now, I'd take Morgan and develop Ruben as a fullback who can cover ten. Making that clear early on will determine how good of a side the Canes become in future years as players fully develop. It's highlighted in the below article -
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Aiden Morgan and Ruben Love are the answer IMO, they just need more time in the saddle. Aiden Morgan is definitely mature beyond his years in the way he goes about things which is probably why he's been able to make the step up to Super Rugby more easier than others. I think the big thing for the Canes is who they pick as their general moving forward. If I had to pick right now, I'd take Morgan and develop Ruben as a fullback who can cover ten.
It reminds me a bit of the situation at the Tahs. Harrison like Love was seen last year as the future 10 but then this year as others got more opportunities (Edmed, Donaldson for Tahs like Morgan for Canes), Harrison is now seen as a 15 who can cover 10.
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@KiwiMurph very true, it's made easier for the Canes as I feel Morgan is the more natural 10 out of the two, whereas Love seems to be more suited to fullback anyway so to me the choice is fairly obvious.
It's just such a crucial decision to get right. i.e. when the Canes had Cruden and Barrett, they ended up choosing Barrett and then Cruden went on to get 2 titles with the Chiefs, versus Barrett getting 1 with the Canes. I'm not saying we are going to lose Love but making that tough selection early on is important for the stability of the team moving forward.