England to whitewash Australia
-
<p>Yeah but that's the problem with optimism, isn't it. Just makes the fall longer and the impact harder when you come crashing back to earth.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't think Aussie fans expect the world, though. A series loss to England would be unacceptable, but with two games in NZ we all know the Bled won't be coming home this year.</p> -
<p>I think most Aussies have set the bar at: Beat England 3-zip, but 2-1 at least.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Beat the ABs at least once.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Losses to Argentina or South Africa are probably unacceptable. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>But really, its about seeing more consistency and a style of rugby that makes people sit up and take notice.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="585071" data-time="1465016561">
<div>
<p>Well he said he will go down as one, mentioned in the same breath as Hansen. They're worlds apart.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Maybe to you.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But he took the Waratahs to the title, and the Wallabies to the World Cup final. That's enough for the Hall of Fame in Aussie terms, regardless of what happens from here.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="barbarian" data-cid="585073" data-time="1465017309">
<div>
<p>Maybe to you.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But he took the Waratahs to the title, and the Wallabies to the World Cup final. That's enough for the Hall of Fame in Aussie terms, regardless of what happens from here.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>So he's in the Hall of Fame next to Eddie Jones then?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="585075" data-time="1465017839">
<div>
<p>I'm sure it's not only to me.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Nope, not only to you. Hanson seems almost comatose most of the time when interviewed so I doubt we'd see the idiocy from him we saw when Chaika was tahs coach and previously.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Cue " he's a showing some passion for his team" or variation thereof for dickheadish behaviour.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="585077" data-time="1465018365">
<div>
<p>So he's in the Hall of Fame next to Eddie Jones then?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Eddie had the same pedigee (Super title, RWC final) so yes.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm not saying he's the greatest of all time. But my point was his record as a great coach is safe, at least in the minds of Waratahs fans like me.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You guys probably don't see it that way- that's fine. I'm not really trying to argue with you. I'm a massive fan of his and am not going to hide that, as you guys probably are with Hansen.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="barbarian" data-cid="585039" data-time="1465002968"><p>
Yeah but that's the problem with optimism, isn't it. Just makes the fall longer and the impact harder when you come crashing back to earth.<br><br>
I don't think Aussie fans expect the world, though. A series loss to England would be unacceptable, but with two games in NZ we all know the Bled won't be coming home this year.</p></blockquote>
<br>
Well I hope they do well mate, but obviously not too well (:<br><br>
I could be completely off the reservation here, but I can't help feeling that there's a bit of an Alan Jones thing about Cheika. A very good coach, meticulous, highly successful outside of rugby, demands very high standards, players devoted to him. But, has an abrasive personality and arrogance that will eventually piss people off and cause problems. <br><br>
I remember Roger Gould said that Jones was easily the best coach he'd played under but after a while he'd had jack of him. I just wonder if Cheika is one of those coaches. -
<p>I disagree slightly with Nick, I think that's a good analogy in some ways. He has pissed plenty of people off behind closed doors at the Tahs and Wallabies, but it seems he picks fights with suits not players.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Time will tell, but he's into year 4 with some players and there are no outward signs of cracking yet. A lot of Jones' problems were of their time- he was being paid a motza while the players got nothing, which was one reason why it all went belly up in the end.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't think he has the ego that Jones does. Seems very grounded to me... 3 kids under 5 will do that to you, though.</p> -
Cheika doesnt strike me as the kind of bloke that gets arrested in a public toilet .
-
Was Jones paid much as Wallaby coach? I know he was raking it in on radio during that time but I don't think cash was an issue for the players. But it did put noses outof joint that he did not suspend his radio gig during the RWC. That meant it was impossible to have morning training sessions.<br><br>
Will be interesting to see in the next few years if there are any parallels.<br><br>
My prediction. He'll win the Bled back in 2018, get knocked out of the RWC in the SF by France and then lose the 3rd/4th playoff to Wales after Hoopa gets sent off. He'll then lose the Bled, lose to Argentina in Argentina and then be sacked and replaced by Link.<br><br>
He'll then go to league and coach the Tigers without much success.<br><br>
You read it here first
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="barbarian" data-cid="585037" data-time="1465001311">
<div>
<p>Cheika's plaudits had as much to do with style as they did results.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He is very different to other coaches. I've sat in countless pressers with Cheik, and he is utterly captivating. He has a way of speaking that is so refreshing, cutting bullshit and coming across as totally authentic. It is not dissimilar to Eddie Jones or Steve Hanson, but it's not the same either. The media are just as much in his spell as I am.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I guess the the key with the type of hypnosis you are describing there is it only works if the subject is a willing participant - and you and the Australian media certainly are that. If you are outside the bubble it doesn't really do much for you. Wayne Bennett's media work is prickly at best. Gregg Popovich is famous for how uncharismatic his media availabilities are - you could go on, but Cheika appeals to the Aussie base largely because he is selling what you want to buy.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="barbarian" data-cid="585037" data-time="1465001311">
<div>Does this make him the best coach in the world? God knows. Deciding who the 'best' is in rugby is a pointless exercise. Cheika was the best coach for the Wallabies at that time, and achieved great results. Steve Hanson is a great coach and achieved even better results. Switch them around and things may be totally different. Or the same. Who knows.<br><p> </p>
<p>Hansen and Cheika will both go down as all-time greats of the game, deservedly so. Speaking for all rugby fans in Aus- we've never felt so excited about a coach as we do Cheika. We fucking love him, and I can't remember such positivity before a Wallaby season as is the case right now.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I'd say while Cheika certainly has got the Aussie base quite excited, nothing will quite beat the first year of so of the Deans appointment. It was a double whammy, not only was there the expectation they had a great coach but that they felt a smugness having stolen him from NZ.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm firmly in the wait and see camp - while probably being slightly more pessimistic than most picking him to be a Mitchell more than a Henry/Hansen type. Very easy to coach in a World Cup year - buy in is incredibly high from the players, we saw France make the final in 2011 literally locking their coach out of the sheds. It's also easiest to coach in year one, it is a fresh start you have lots of gimmicks up your sleeve selection wise, change the captain, dump this guy etc etc keep everyone on their toes. You won't have that buy in and you can't pull those gimmicks year after year. So before we induct him in the World Rugby Hall of Fame I'd like to see a good four year cycle and to see how he deals with the ebbs and flows of June Internationals, a TRC where they actually play on and their third EOYT etc. His temperament and track record gives me reason to pause.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Just watching the on field product though I just don't see the improvements you are talking about - they are still a talented but inconsistent side. They did "make the RWC final" which seems to be an irrefutable argument that the team is on the upswing. Then again 2011 France, 2007 England, 1999 France all made the final too, yet I think we'd happily debate the merits of Ashton, Livermont & Skrela as coaches. Hell Eddie Jones made it in 2003 too and there are more than enough Aussies that will debate that too.</p> -
Bones, you're not Robinson Crusoe. <br><br>
Cheika is not YET a great of the game. He could barely be considered a "good" of the game so far.<br><br>
He MAY turn out to be the Messiah, he may not. <br><br>
I reckon there was the same level of optimism for Deans early on, and for McKenzie. <br><br>
Temper your optimism.<br><br>
As someone said earlier one of the things we can look forward to is the potential serious denting of the halo of one of the coaches. I only hope it's Jones because England. That and English media. That and I really just dont rate him and despite what I wrote above I do rate Cheika (as the second best coach in the world).
