Red Cards
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@gt12 love it
Starts getting gnarly with definitions though. Interested in your opinions on:
Was the Sam Cane hit on that Irish bloke a red? What about Naholo going high on their winger?
Ofa red card against Australia?
I don’t think any of them were dirty, a don’t return sinbin for all of them, with bans for all as well (as required) would make the system conceptually consistent.
My prerence is something which - even if the refs aren’t consistent - will be similarly consistent and doesn’t require advanced degrees in physics.
If a player is getting sat out of games often enough, soon their value will drop dramatically.
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@gt12 cool, bit would you see that the same way if you were Irish?
Basically you're saying proper filth gets the red, and it'll be 1 or 2 a season
Yep.
Anything that could potentially see another play unable to keep going would also result in you not continuing.
We’d still get (mostly) a 15 vs 15 game though.
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@gt12 I'm still not a fan of reducing a team to 14 (or less) for the balance of the game.
Filth, you are gone but still replaced, why is the rest of your team punished cos you a dirty fluffybunny? Why are fans punished cos you a dirty fluffybunny?
The accidental ones are tougher, Barrett for example, huge bone head thuggish move, but no way did he go out to hurt/injure someone, but he has, so he needs to go too and not return, I'd be keen on an orange card being 10 mins, but automatic 2 week ban to go with your judiciary visit, more time off and a fine.
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I'm convinced that rugby needs a cultural change so that cards for head contact are replaced with a citation system and longer suspensions.
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@antipodean said in Red Cards:
I'm convinced that rugby needs a cultural change so that cards for head contact are replaced with a citation system and longer suspensions.
I tend to agree. Think there needs to be a distinction between deliberate dangerous play, like kneeing someone in the neck, and what is essentially poor tacking technique.
If on-field sanction is needed, perhaps a YC and citation/suspension system where things can be looked at away from the baying crowd?
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I'm not sure the real issue is being addressed.
If it was being addressed properly, then the numbers should be going down. They aren't. They are sky rocketing.
First step in resolving a problem, is really understanding what the problem is. I'm not sure that's being done here.
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@MajorRage said in Red Cards:
I'm not sure the real issue is being addressed.
If it was being addressed properly, then the numbers should be going down. They aren't. They are sky rocketing.
First step in resolving a problem, is really understanding what the problem is. I'm not sure that's being done here.
You could look at it another way in that it's well and truly recognised now by officials, but not being addressed by coaches and players, hence the sky rockets in flight.
No afternoon delight.
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@MajorRage said in Red Cards:
I'm not sure the real issue is being addressed.
If it was being addressed properly, then the numbers should be going down. They aren't. They are sky rocketing.
First step in resolving a problem, is really understanding what the problem is. I'm not sure that's being done here.
You could look at it another way in that it's well and truly recognised now by officials, but not being addressed by coaches and players, hence the sky rockets in flight.
No afternoon delight.
Yeah, very true. However perhaps a certain number of head knocks are just part of how the game is played & there really is nothing you can do about them other than punish those that find themselves being the perpetrator.
People aren't perfect and never have been. Modern game you need to tackle around the chest to stop plays. As long as this remains the key way to clear people out / collide, then head knocks are always going to happen. If everybody did everything perfectly runners would never get injured, tennis players would never do an unforced error, cricketers would never drop catches.
It's just not reality.
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@MajorRage said in Red Cards:
Modern game you need to tackle around the chest to stop plays.
That's not necessarily true though and it's this attitude that needs to be addressed I reckon, it's simply just not ok to do something dangerous/careless/reckless to stop play - if you can't do it safely, then don't do it. Then the game opens up and/or teams find other ways to safely get around foul play.
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@MajorRage said in Red Cards:
Modern game you need to tackle around the chest to stop plays.
That's not necessarily true though and it's this attitude that needs to be addressed I reckon, it's simply just not ok to do something dangerous/careless/reckless to stop play - if you can't do it safely, then don't do it. Then the game opens up and/or teams find other ways to safely get around foul play.
It's true if you tack on the word effectively to it.
I'm not condoning people shoulder charging to head/neck. Far from it. But the way the game is being played at the moment, it IS going to happen. Either we are happy with a huge increase in the cards, or we aren't. The number of cards is only going to go up, unless the real problem is addressed.
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@MajorRage said in Red Cards:
unless the real problem is addressed
Which is the players and coaches not taking responsibility and effectively training on technique to be safer. And the casual fans moaning that there's nothing the players can do about it....
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Just to add - most of the complaints I'm seeing are people saying that there's no way players have time to adjust and/or couldn't make the tackle (etc) any other way. I sure hope they're not the same people that complain about defences being too tight and hard to unlock...
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@MajorRage said in Red Cards:
unless the real problem is addressed
Which is the players and coaches not taking responsibility and effectively training on technique to be safer. And the casual fans moaning that there's nothing the players can do about it....
We are just going around in circles. You aren't wrong, and I'm just saying people aren't perfect and no matter how much you train, mistakes are going to be made.
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@MajorRage said in Red Cards:
@MajorRage said in Red Cards:
unless the real problem is addressed
Which is the players and coaches not taking responsibility and effectively training on technique to be safer. And the casual fans moaning that there's nothing the players can do about it....
We are just going around in circles. You aren't wrong, and I'm just saying people aren't perfect and no matter how much you train, mistakes are going to be made.
Oh not arguing mistakes are going to be made. I'm in no doubt less can be made though. Carter kicks waaaay better than most and Smith passes waaaay better than most - I'm not convinced that it's the laws and officiating that make this so.
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