All Blacks 2021
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
To Argentina and Ireland?
We didn't play Argentina & Ireland in '09.
I just think it's a bit arrogant to suggest those teams haven't worked hard and improved hugely in the last decade or so, Ireland coming close to beating us in 2012 & 2013. Heck, Argentine gave a real fright in '08 in Buenos Ares - even before they joined the RC.
I don't know why people who have watched rugby for 10 minutes assume Irish have always been easybeats , they drew with us in 1973, well before they actually did beat us. If my memory serves me well we were fairly close in the 1978 tour as well.
Many Oirish matches have been really close over the years, even against some of the best AB teams of all time - often by 1 or 2 points. And lets not forget Munster.
Teams like Scotland and Wales are no longer push-overs either for any SH side.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Is that a new tactic by the AB coaches against a rushing defence ? ...sounds about right
I am still wondering about your proposed tactics to beat the rush defence please.
Have said before use deep wiper kicks behind them into the corners or towards the sideline, they're all up flat so they have to scramble back, there's always plenty of space behind a flat defence, Frans Steyn did it brilliantly for the Boks against us.
Thanks. That certainly addresses when we get the ball in the middle of the field (I expect between our 22 and attacking 10m or so) but does potentially give them the ball.
Also, would like your opinion on how to beat it when we want to try and attack with ball in hand closer to the try line.
Don't favour box kicks well within our own territory, reckons there's a less than 50/50 chance of getting the ball back even when it's accurately executed & if they win it in the air they can also attack from broken play... I'd rather kick the ball out on halfway or inside their territory depending where the ball is kicked from, yeah, they will get the throw in, but when you have a lineout it gives you more time to set your defence properly.
Reckon when you're attacking close to the oppositions line through the forwards I wouldn't go directly up the middle too much, keep shifting your pod attacks a few metres wider each time to try & stretch them more, if you can keep possession going through a lot of phases eventually the defence will tire & you're get over the line, also your halfback can read what's going on so he's another option to score the try or see if another back is in a better position to have a crack etc.
Nobody likes the box kick, unless you're Faf or Irish.
as a front rower....i kind of like being able to trot forward from a ruck and line up a winger looking up at the ball...might just be me though
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
To Argentina and Ireland?
We didn't play Argentina & Ireland in '09.
I just think it's a bit arrogant to suggest those teams haven't worked hard and improved hugely in the last decade or so, Ireland coming close to beating us in 2012 & 2013. Heck, Argentine gave a real fright in '08 in Buenos Ares - even before they joined the RC.
I don't know why people who have watched rugby for 10 minutes assume Irish have always been easybeats , they drew with us in 1973, well before they actually did beat us. If my memory serves me well we were fairly close in the 1978 tour as well.
Many Oirish matches have been really close over the years, even against some of the best AB teams of all time - often by 1 or 2 points. And lets not forget Munster.
Teams like Scotland and Wales are no longer push-overs either for any SH side.
Three wins in a row against Australia, doesn’t count for much when it’s only the wallabies though I guess
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@mn5 said in All Blacks 2021:
Three wins in a row against Australia, doesn’t count for much when it’s only the wallabies though I guess
If Beaudy hadn't done a Captain Fantastic bit of cover defence on Hogg in the last minute in '18(?), they'd have beaten us. IIRC, apart from Reiko & DMac, we were a bit shit on that tour
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@mn5 said in All Blacks 2021:
Three wins in a row against Australia, doesn’t count for much when it’s only the wallabies though I guess
If Beaudy hadn't done a Captain Fantastic bit of cover defence on Hogg in the last minute in '18(?), they'd have beaten us. IIRC, apart from Reiko & DMac, we were a bit shit on that tour
Scots are on the way up, there’s no two ways about it. Changing Rugby for the better wherever they go.
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@mn5 said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@mn5 said in All Blacks 2021:
Three wins in a row against Australia, doesn’t count for much when it’s only the wallabies though I guess
If Beaudy hadn't done a Captain Fantastic bit of cover defence on Hogg in the last minute in '18(?), they'd have beaten us. IIRC, apart from Reiko & DMac, we were a bit shit on that tour
Scots are on the way up, there’s no two ways about it. Changing Rugby for the better wherever they go.
Yep. Play an attractive style and a team I shout for in the 6Ns.
While there's much wrong with the ABs and I hate to see them lose, it's good to see teams like Scotland getting better and better.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@mn5 said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@mn5 said in All Blacks 2021:
Three wins in a row against Australia, doesn’t count for much when it’s only the wallabies though I guess
If Beaudy hadn't done a Captain Fantastic bit of cover defence on Hogg in the last minute in '18(?), they'd have beaten us. IIRC, apart from Reiko & DMac, we were a bit shit on that tour
Scots are on the way up, there’s no two ways about it. Changing Rugby for the better wherever they go.
Yep. Play an attractive style and a team I shout for in the 6Ns.
While there's much wrong with the ABs and I hate to see them lose, it's good to see teams like Scotland getting better and better.
It warms the heart. Maiden victory over the ABs coming right up. Take that fat boy fozzie !
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@mn5 are they now scrambling to play the ABs for a change instead of dodging them?
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
@mn5 are they now scrambling to play the ABs for a change instead of dodging them?
Travelling to NZ is expensive….spending money is not a Scottish tradition.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
To Argentina and Ireland?
We didn't play Argentina & Ireland in '09.
I just think it's a bit arrogant to suggest those teams haven't worked hard and improved hugely in the last decade or so, Ireland coming close to beating us in 2012 & 2013. Heck, Argentine gave a real fright in '08 in Buenos Ares - even before they joined the RC.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
To Argentina and Ireland?
We didn't play Argentina & Ireland in '09.
I just think it's a bit arrogant to suggest those teams haven't worked hard and improved hugely in the last decade or so, Ireland coming close to beating us in 2012 & 2013. Heck, Argentine gave a real fright in '08 in Buenos Ares - even before they joined the RC.
We did play them last year. (losing to Argentina in 2020 by 10 points, losing to France by 15 points in 2021).
And it is not that we lost to them but the convincing way in which we lost to them (Ireland, Argentina, France) and after we had plenty of time to improve and change strategies. They didn't suddenly change direction and unleash surprising new tactics against us. They just put sustained pressure on the same weak points diagnosed on here for some time.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Is that a new tactic by the AB coaches against a rushing defence ? ...sounds about right
I am still wondering about your proposed tactics to beat the rush defence please.
Have said before use deep wiper kicks behind them into the corners or towards the sideline, they're all up flat so they have to scramble back, there's always plenty of space behind a flat defence, Frans Steyn did it brilliantly for the Boks against us.
Thanks. That certainly addresses when we get the ball in the middle of the field (I expect between our 22 and attacking 10m or so) but does potentially give them the ball.
Also, would like your opinion on how to beat it when we want to try and attack with ball in hand closer to the try line.
Don't favour box kicks well within our own territory, reckons there's a less than 50/50 chance of getting the ball back even when it's accurately executed & if they win it in the air they can also attack from broken play... I'd rather kick the ball out on halfway or inside their territory depending where the ball is kicked from, yeah, they will get the throw in, but when you have a lineout it gives you more time to set your defence properly.
Reckon when you're attacking close to the oppositions line through the forwards I wouldn't go directly up the middle too much, keep shifting your pod attacks a few metres wider each time to try & stretch them more, if you can keep possession going through a lot of phases eventually the defence will tire & you're get over the line, also your halfback can read what's going on so he's another option to score the try or see if another back is in a better position to have a crack etc.
Nobody likes the box kick, unless you're Faf or Irish.
It's not just those two teams that overdo box kicking... every bloody team is guilty of that.
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Is that a new tactic by the AB coaches against a rushing defence ? ...sounds about right
I am still wondering about your proposed tactics to beat the rush defence please.
Have said before use deep wiper kicks behind them into the corners or towards the sideline, they're all up flat so they have to scramble back, there's always plenty of space behind a flat defence, Frans Steyn did it brilliantly for the Boks against us.
Thanks. That certainly addresses when we get the ball in the middle of the field (I expect between our 22 and attacking 10m or so) but does potentially give them the ball.
Also, would like your opinion on how to beat it when we want to try and attack with ball in hand closer to the try line.
Don't favour box kicks well within our own territory, reckons there's a less than 50/50 chance of getting the ball back even when it's accurately executed & if they win it in the air they can also attack from broken play... I'd rather kick the ball out on halfway or inside their territory depending where the ball is kicked from, yeah, they will get the throw in, but when you have a lineout it gives you more time to set your defence properly.
Reckon when you're attacking close to the oppositions line through the forwards I wouldn't go directly up the middle too much, keep shifting your pod attacks a few metres wider each time to try & stretch them more, if you can keep possession going through a lot of phases eventually the defence will tire & you're get over the line, also your halfback can read what's going on so he's another option to score the try or see if another back is in a better position to have a crack etc.
Nobody likes the box kick, unless you're Faf or Irish.
It's not just those two teams that overdo box kicking... every bloody team is guilty of that.
Yeah, that's my point: nobody. Literally nobody (except perhaps @Kiwiwomble ??) likes the box kick. A blight on the game.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Our paymakers in the backs are lacking some composure... they need to be reading situations better & executing more accurately.
Yeah, Foster made that point.
But what do you think is causing them to read situations so badly and executing more accurately? What do they need to do - apart from playing better - to improve the situation?
The coach can't think for the players out on the field - it's completely up to the playmakers to show some smarts/focus during a game... if a player keeps on making the same thoughtless errors they don't deserve to start, drop him & give someone else a crack.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Is that a new tactic by the AB coaches against a rushing defence ? ...sounds about right
I am still wondering about your proposed tactics to beat the rush defence please.
Have said before use deep wiper kicks behind them into the corners or towards the sideline, they're all up flat so they have to scramble back, there's always plenty of space behind a flat defence, Frans Steyn did it brilliantly for the Boks against us.
Thanks. That certainly addresses when we get the ball in the middle of the field (I expect between our 22 and attacking 10m or so) but does potentially give them the ball.
Also, would like your opinion on how to beat it when we want to try and attack with ball in hand closer to the try line.
Don't favour box kicks well within our own territory, reckons there's a less than 50/50 chance of getting the ball back even when it's accurately executed & if they win it in the air they can also attack from broken play... I'd rather kick the ball out on halfway or inside their territory depending where the ball is kicked from, yeah, they will get the throw in, but when you have a lineout it gives you more time to set your defence properly.
Reckon when you're attacking close to the oppositions line through the forwards I wouldn't go directly up the middle too much, keep shifting your pod attacks a few metres wider each time to try & stretch them more, if you can keep possession going through a lot of phases eventually the defence will tire & you're get over the line, also your halfback can read what's going on so he's another option to score the try or see if another back is in a better position to have a crack etc.
Nobody likes the box kick, unless you're Faf or Irish.
It's not just those two teams that overdo box kicking... every bloody team is guilty of that.
Yeah, that's my point: nobody. Literally nobody (except perhaps @Kiwiwomble ??) likes the box kick. A blight on the game.
Yep you right, I don't think many like box kicks, but don't like 9s throwing ball to backs with a dfence set real close either, so we'll keep seeing them. Hell I dislike rolling mauls too, but we going to keep seeing them when a team feel it's their best option unfortuneatly!!
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Is that a new tactic by the AB coaches against a rushing defence ? ...sounds about right
I am still wondering about your proposed tactics to beat the rush defence please.
Have said before use deep wiper kicks behind them into the corners or towards the sideline, they're all up flat so they have to scramble back, there's always plenty of space behind a flat defence, Frans Steyn did it brilliantly for the Boks against us.
Thanks. That certainly addresses when we get the ball in the middle of the field (I expect between our 22 and attacking 10m or so) but does potentially give them the ball.
Also, would like your opinion on how to beat it when we want to try and attack with ball in hand closer to the try line.
Don't favour box kicks well within our own territory, reckons there's a less than 50/50 chance of getting the ball back even when it's accurately executed & if they win it in the air they can also attack from broken play... I'd rather kick the ball out on halfway or inside their territory depending where the ball is kicked from, yeah, they will get the throw in, but when you have a lineout it gives you more time to set your defence properly.
Reckon when you're attacking close to the oppositions line through the forwards I wouldn't go directly up the middle too much, keep shifting your pod attacks a few metres wider each time to try & stretch them more, if you can keep possession going through a lot of phases eventually the defence will tire & you're get over the line, also your halfback can read what's going on so he's another option to score the try or see if another back is in a better position to have a crack etc.
Nobody likes the box kick, unless you're Faf or Irish.
It's not just those two teams that overdo box kicking... every bloody team is guilty of that.
Yeah, that's my point: nobody. Literally nobody (except perhaps @Kiwiwomble ??) likes the box kick. A blight on the game.
That's for sure - as we know teams use the box kick a lot because they lack ideas how to break down a defence... the box kick can be very handy though for a halfback from a ruck etc inside his 22, can clear the ball out near halfway, get away from your danger zone & go to a lineout to settle things down.
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Our paymakers in the backs are lacking some composure... they need to be reading situations better & executing more accurately.
Yeah, Foster made that point.
But what do you think is causing them to read situations so badly and executing more accurately? What do they need to do - apart from playing better - to improve the situation?
The coach can't think for the players out on the field - it's completely up to the playmakers to show some smarts/focus during a game... if a player keeps on making the same thoughtless errors they don't deserve to start, drop him & give someone else a crack.
Unless you have a coach who is devoid of idea's and doesn't trust his players enough.
One thing I have seen disappear under Foster and co is our ability to play heads up Rugby and play what is in front of us. It used to be one of our strengths.The ability to see or create space by giving the players the confidence to play what they see,Vision is missing, we miss a lot of attacking opportunities by not backing ourselves.Lack of confidence in the Coaches and game plan maybe. -
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Our paymakers in the backs are lacking some composure... they need to be reading situations better & executing more accurately.
Yeah, Foster made that point.
But what do you think is causing them to read situations so badly and executing more accurately? What do they need to do - apart from playing better - to improve the situation?
The coach can't think for the players out on the field - it's completely up to the playmakers to show some smarts/focus during a game... if a player keeps on making the same thoughtless errors they don't deserve to start, drop him & give someone else a crack.
Unless you have a coach who is devoid of idea's and doesn't trust his players enough.
One thing I have seen disappear under Foster and co is our ability to play heads up Rugby and play what is in front of us. It used to be one of our strengths.The ability to see or create space by giving the players the confidence to play what they see,Vision is missing, we miss a lot of attacking opportunities by not backing ourselves.Lack of confidence in the Coaches and game plan maybe.We are definitely not helped by having a coach that has very little insight - but it's also on the players to play thoughtful rugby... totally agree, we play at our best when we plays what's in front of us, especially with the fast paced game we have.
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Our paymakers in the backs are lacking some composure... they need to be reading situations better & executing more accurately.
Yeah, Foster made that point.
But what do you think is causing them to read situations so badly and executing more accurately? What do they need to do - apart from playing better - to improve the situation?
The coach can't think for the players out on the field - it's completely up to the playmakers to show some smarts/focus during a game... if a player keeps on making the same thoughtless errors they don't deserve to start, drop him & give someone else a crack.
Unless you have a coach who is devoid of idea's and doesn't trust his players enough.
One thing I have seen disappear under Foster and co is our ability to play heads up Rugby and play what is in front of us. It used to be one of our strengths.The ability to see or create space by giving the players the confidence to play what they see,Vision is missing, we miss a lot of attacking opportunities by not backing ourselves.Lack of confidence in the Coaches and game plan maybe.We are definitely not helped by having a coach that has very little insight - but it's also on the players to play thoughtful rugby... totally agree, we play at our best when we plays what's in front of us, especially with the fast paced game we have.
Do you not think we are losing the ability to play heads up rugby because our players skill level seems to of dropped over last 4-5 years. Watch super rugby these days and ask yourself when the last time we saw NZ teams play down the blinside and be able to execute 2-3 passes at speed and beat defenders with speed of pass etc even in the 5m tramline. Something I have been noticing since about 2017-18, our super teams seem a lot more structured, or predictable.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
And it is not that we lost to them but the convincing way in which we lost to them (Ireland, Argentina, France) and after we had plenty of time to improve and change strategies.
But the same could be said of the coaching team in '09. And the coaching team in 2012/3. As for convincing losses, remember England in 2012, the Wobbles in Hong Kong?
I hear the sound of goal-posts being moved.....
All Blacks
