Coronavirus - UK
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@kirwan said in Coronavirus - UK:
And the doctor made that clear that it was blurry distinction as after 60, most people have a secondary illness of some description. It's not as easy as Farage was trying to make out to compare those figures.
Yep. People like Chris Whitty and others have said we won't get a true indication of Covid deaths for some time until excess deaths data is in. I did read that so far it correlates with the official stats to a major degree though
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - UK:
And the doctor made that clear that it was blurry distinction as after 60, most people have a secondary illness of some description. It's not as easy as Farage was trying to make out to compare those figures.
Yep. People like Chris Whitty and others have said we won't get a true indication of Covid deaths for some time until excess deaths data is in. I did read that so far it correlates with the official stats to a major degree though
As of December 26th:
- 147,940 covid deaths
- 151,400 excess deaths
For a long time during the pandemic, UK actually had about 20k more covid deaths than excess deaths. But now they have evened up in the latest numbers. Don't know why, would be interesting.
I would actually expect UK to have about 20k covid deaths per year more than the excess number, as that would be the rough amount of displaced pneumonia deaths caused by covid instead of other seasonal viruses (If use NZ as an example of about 1800 excess lives per year per 5m people).
It's weird that UK counting method has cause the most controversy in the English speaking media, but has looked to me, to actually be the most accurate real time numbers in the entire world for most of the pandemic (For those countries without elimination-type policies where counting was hard during the pressure times).
Several years after the fact the numbers will be more refined, but for real time policy making on the hoof, UK had actually ended up with a surprisingly accurate method.
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@muddyriver said in Coronavirus - UK:
@rapido Florida is a great case study, be interestin to see their "of" vs "with" numbers.
BTW. What is the significance of Florida "of" and "with"? Are there numbers for Florida already done?
To divert thread from UK, sorry ...
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@rapido said in Coronavirus - UK:
For a long time during the pandemic, UK actually had about 20k more covid deaths than excess deaths. But now they have evened up in the latest numbers. Don't know why, would be interesting.
I think they changed things a bit after a woman killed in a car accident was marked down as a Covid death as she had tested positive 4 weeks earlier...
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UK are down to 37th worse by excess deaths. They were among the top few about a year ago.
By per capita terms. They are only slightly worse (in 4 waves), than French Polynesia in 2 waves.
They only have a quarter the numbers of Bulgaria and Russia, if want some what-aboutery counter examples.
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@rapido said in Coronavirus - UK:
@muddyriver said in Coronavirus - UK:
@rapido Florida is a great case study, be interestin to see their "of" vs "with" numbers.
But what does of and with even mean?
I haven't looked at the stuff above where Siam has pulled the obviously completely stupid number of 17,371 from.
I mean if you classify pneumonia as dieing with (rather than of), then both this pandemic and (1919 influenza) will be halved or three-quartered (my guesses).
I don't know if Florida would be a good comparison for a lace like UK, maybe Queensland would be a good fit. But TBH there are a lot of variables that can lead to uneven effects in different places.
Your use of adjectives betrays your emotions
Numbers can't be completely stupid so I know what your inferring and it's glaring.
These are official numbers and I suspect an awful lot of people are going to have a hard time accepting new science.
Here they are cited and referenced in a summary from a trusted Dr.
Take on the numbers Rapido, not the pleb who copies and pastes. Take it out on your government , not me
FYI the virus has robbed the average 80+ male with co-morbidities 7 weeks of life, accordingto the basic calculations by the bloke below.
And yes it's a lot more complex than that and another covid hurdle to be addressed, just like the origin of the virus
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@rapido said in Coronavirus - UK:
Nah, that the Millenium Bug retrospective argument.
You'd be amazed at the number of people business - even at Director level - who thought Y2K was a hoax.
There was a tremendous amount of unnecessary work and inflated costs during that period. I had the temerity to question why printers all needed to be replaced. That was a long, uncomfortable silence.
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I understand that the 6N in Wales will not be subject to covid restrictions this year?
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - UK:
I understand that the 6N in Wales will not be subject to covid restrictions this year?
Apparently so. Drakeford back tracking at the last minute to a more sensible position after showing that he cares more about his people than Boris does his. Grandstanding 🙄
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@catogrande It's disgusting how the populace have been treated by politicians throughout this.
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@antipodean Indeed.
As much as I despise the British media, by fuck do they hold the government to account for their bullshit though.
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@catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - UK:
I understand that the 6N in Wales will not be subject to covid restrictions this year?
Apparently so. Drakeford back tracking at the last minute to a more sensible position after showing that he cares more about his people than Boris does his. Grandstanding 🙄
Think the WRU told Drakeford to fuck off
At least I hope they did
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - UK:
I understand that the 6N in Wales will not be subject to covid restrictions this year?
Apparently so. Drakeford back tracking at the last minute to a more sensible position after showing that he cares more about his people than Boris does his. Grandstanding 🙄
Think the WRU told Drakeford to fuck off
At least I hope they did
He has some serious competition, but is he the biggest piston wristed gibbon in UK Politics?
- Has more restrictions than others, accuses Boris of not caring about his people
- Goes silent when none of his extra restrictions work & Wales pops up to be the worst affected part of the UK
- Cases drop (as they have everywhere)
- Suddenly vocal again about how Wales is doing it best because of the restrictions
Do people see right through this bullshit and realise it's all about choosing statistics to play politics, as opposed genuinely doing what is right & best?
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May be bollocks, but I have friends in Newport who've told me people go to hospitals across the Severn to avoid the Welsh parliament-run NHS.
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Slightly off topic but son broke his foot playing hockey so been doing a fair bit NHS Usage of late. A few observations
- To a person, everybody at Surry County hospital have been absolutely lovely to deal with
- Long wait on first day, but there were a few proper sick kids so I'm loathe to complain
- It's paediatric unit but it really does feel like they genuinely care. Nothing robotic at all
- Paperwork. Insane. I think the Dr's spend 10 mins per hour diagnosing / dealing with and 50 mins paperwork
Conclusion. It's far from perfect. Far from it. But the coalface workers have been incredible and amazing. Something to genuinely be proud of.
It's enough to make you turn a bit left.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
Conclusion. It's far from perfect. Far from it. But the coalface workers have been incredible and amazing. Something to genuinely be proud of.
It's enough to make you turn a bit left.We've had the completely opposite experience from the coal-face workers. Yes, they smiled and said all the right things but the utter lack of care they gave to Mrs M's parents was so bad, they refused to go back to hospital for treatment. Some examples:
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We were given 36 hrs to arrange 24/7 care for two old people with dementia and Parkinsons. It was made clear an ambulance would deliver them back to their house whether care was in place or not.
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The "caring" staff never took notice of our requests that water, reading glasses and hearing aid were kept by his bedside. He was diagnosed with dehydration after he was discharged.
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They had been married for 65 years but when Mrs M's father asked how his wife was, they refused to answer any questions, quoting "data protection" - witnessed by other people.
I can only speak from our recent experience, but the contrast between the initial smiling, caring faces and reality was stark. They really didn't care.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - UK:
I understand that the 6N in Wales will not be subject to covid restrictions this year?
Apparently so. Drakeford back tracking at the last minute to a more sensible position after showing that he cares more about his people than Boris does his. Grandstanding 🙄
Think the WRU told Drakeford to fuck off
At least I hope they did
He has some serious competition, but is he the biggest piston wristed gibbon in UK Politics?
- Has more restrictions than others, accuses Boris of not caring about his people
- Goes silent when none of his extra restrictions work & Wales pops up to be the worst affected part of the UK
- Cases drop (as they have everywhere)
- Suddenly vocal again about how Wales is doing it best because of the restrictions
Do people see right through this bullshit and realise it's all about choosing statistics to play politics, as opposed genuinely doing what is right & best?
Either him or Sturgeon
Fucking useless
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
Conclusion. It's far from perfect. Far from it. But the coalface workers have been incredible and amazing. Something to genuinely be proud of.
It's enough to make you turn a bit left.We've had the completely opposite experience from the coal-face workers. Yes, they smiled and said all the right things but the utter lack of care they gave to Mrs M's parents was so bad, they refused to go back to hospital for treatment. Some examples:
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We were given 36 hrs to arrange 24/7 care for two old people with dementia and Parkinsons. It was made clear an ambulance would deliver them back to their house whether care was in place or not.
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The "caring" staff never took notice of our requests that water, reading glasses and hearing aid were kept by his bedside. He was diagnosed with dehydration after he was discharged.
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They had been married for 65 years but when Mrs M's father asked how his wife was, they refused to answer any questions, quoting "data protection" - witnessed by other people.
I can only speak from our recent experience, but the contrast between the initial smiling, caring faces and reality was stark. They really didn't care.
My recent experience is much more in line with yours than @MajorRage sadly. We've had multiple visits to NHS maternity care for various reasons, and the attitude is just "get you out of there as fast as possible and don't you dare ask questions." Really upsetting the lack of humanity by all the staff. Nonsense covid rules seem like an excuse to treat patients even worse. I get these poor staff are probably overwhelmed and underfunded etc, but it is a brutal experience.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - UK:
@catogrande It's disgusting how the populace have been treated by politicians throughout this.
I think that there are issues around some decision making that look bad in hindsight but I'm happy to give some leeway there. A lack of joined up logical thinking is less excusable though. Then there is the political grandstanding from some that is just downright despicable.
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@tewaio said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
Conclusion. It's far from perfect. Far from it. But the coalface workers have been incredible and amazing. Something to genuinely be proud of.
It's enough to make you turn a bit left.We've had the completely opposite experience from the coal-face workers. Yes, they smiled and said all the right things but the utter lack of care they gave to Mrs M's parents was so bad, they refused to go back to hospital for treatment. Some examples:
-
We were given 36 hrs to arrange 24/7 care for two old people with dementia and Parkinsons. It was made clear an ambulance would deliver them back to their house whether care was in place or not.
-
The "caring" staff never took notice of our requests that water, reading glasses and hearing aid were kept by his bedside. He was diagnosed with dehydration after he was discharged.
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They had been married for 65 years but when Mrs M's father asked how his wife was, they refused to answer any questions, quoting "data protection" - witnessed by other people.
I can only speak from our recent experience, but the contrast between the initial smiling, caring faces and reality was stark. They really didn't care.
My recent experience is much more in line with yours than @MajorRage sadly. We've had multiple visits to NHS maternity care for various reasons, and the attitude is just "get you out of there as fast as possible and don't you dare ask questions." Really upsetting the lack of humanity by all the staff. Nonsense covid rules seem like an excuse to treat patients even worse. I get these poor staff are probably overwhelmed and underfunded etc, but it is a brutal experience.
I don't have any experience in the UK, but here in Japan things are 70% publicly funded, and due to my health issues I've been to a few places. I think there are two parts to it: One is the system and funding and training overall, and the second is the culture of the individual clinic or hospital. I travel more than an hour to a particular hospital were I get treated really well and the system all (mostly) make sense, rather than be frustrated by the hospital that is literally 5 minutes away by bus.
I suspect that Japan beats the UK in both aspects, but I think the second really makes a bit difference, so I can see how all three of you have very different experiences.
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