All Blacks 2021
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@rotated said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@l_n_p I'd be happy for Razor to get the top job because of his energy, enthusiasm and ability to get the very best out of his players, but with a heavyweight, experienced Assistant (Smith, Rennie, Joseph, Schmidt, Gatland, even Deans or Mitchell).
Yeah, Razor is an excellent coach & would do a really good job as head coach for the AB's - he has good rugby nous, so certainly wouldn't need to rely heavily on a very experienced coaching assistant - it's not vital if hasn't coached another country overseas, also the bloke is in his mid to late 40's & has won 4 or 5 Super Rugby titles... NZ Super Rugby is based on a really fast paced game, the same style the ABs play, so with all his experience as a Super Rugby coach he's the type of bloke we need, would have liked a Robertson/Brown combo, would be a top mix as one use to play in the forwards & the other in the backs.
Where does this confidence come from? With Smith, Henry, Hansen, Jones, Gatland, McKenzie, Wyllie, Hart and Deans (whichever job you count) shit hit the fan during their first international appointment. Why would Razor be any different and things go to custard like his second campaign with the U20s?
Also why are we so sure that he isn't going to follow the trend of most (but not all) Crusaders/Canterbury coaches having major issues once moving to a different environment?
I'm in favour of a Razor appointment in the style of Rassie, Cheika or Mitch given where we are in the cycle. He is well suited to shake things up and will improve the side in the short term. But we have to be realistic that over the medium to long term the odds are against him.
It pays to note that Razor was only 41 years of age (had only been a pro head coach for 2 years) during that U20 campaign, while they finished with the best points differential, and despite losing that single pool match (2nd seed in their pool, with superior PD to Ireland) didn't quality for the knockouts (2016 was the 1st season where the U20 tournament format changed to having only the no1 seed from each pool going through). He then proceeded to put 71 points and 55 points respectively on Wales & Australia in the plate matches.
Razor's record with the U20's was still 93%, he dropped that one game in 2016, and his 2015 win was NZ's first since 2011.. the longest drought they'd seen.
What's become extensively clear is the biggest issues for NZ under Foster has been the breakdown, set-piece, and winning the contact when carrying.
Crucially, these are 3 areas that Razor and Jason Ryan hold key expertise in.
Razor being a breakdown & ruck specialist and Ryan with our set-pieces.
It's time to finally implement some remedies, the meaningful ones.
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@kiwi_expat Robertson's U20 side got completely dominated in the forwards by Ireland in that loss. I remember watching the game live. It has been a common theme in all loses by NZ teams (ABs and age-group), in that without a forward platform we struggle. Rugby 101. You can't rely on the x-factor backs to win every time.
You also can't blame Foster for what happened up front in the SF loss to England at RWC 2019. It was Hansen's call to drop Cane and play S Barrett, and the forwards coach was Cron.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
Kudos to him - but subsequent events are dimming my view of him, particularly how he dismisses any questioning of him or his boy toy Foster
Hansen went from a 1000w bulb to a £1.50 plug-in night-light after his 2019 RWC campaign in my book. The rot started with him.
Are you from Waikato by any chance?
It's well documented that in Steve Hansen's last 2-3 years (during the period Wayne Smith departed) Foster's influence across general team decisions increased dramatically. He was basically empowered by Hansen to run the team trainings, oversee team strategy etc.. with Hansen transitioning into a more directorial, far less hands on role. Foster shouldered increased media duties well in the lead up to 2019, in addition to having increased ownership over trainings, general team patterns, game-planning etc..
Hansen shouldered the majority of the strategy, training specifics and game-planning from 2012-2017, with Foster in a more low-profile specific backs role, working solely on the performance of the backline. This all changed after W.Smith left.
The pattern is clear, the All Black's rapid decline is directly correlated with Fozzie's increased influence on the team.
Poor old Foster, it's his fault even when he's not in charge.
I blame him for the 1999 World Cup loss as well.
The prick forgot to wear his lucky underpants that day. It had a ripple effect through the entire cosmos. -
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@frank said in All Blacks 2021:
Kudos to him - but subsequent events are dimming my view of him, particularly how he dismisses any questioning of him or his boy toy Foster
Hansen went from a 1000w bulb to a £1.50 plug-in night-light after his 2019 RWC campaign in my book. The rot started with him.
Are you from Waikato by any chance?
It's well documented that in Steve Hansen's last 2-3 years (during the period Wayne Smith departed) Foster's influence across general team decisions increased dramatically. He was basically empowered by Hansen to run the team trainings, oversee team strategy etc.. with Hansen transitioning into a more directorial, far less hands on role. Foster shouldered increased media duties well in the lead up to 2019, in addition to having increased ownership over trainings, general team patterns, game-planning etc..
Hansen shouldered the majority of the strategy, training specifics and game-planning from 2012-2017, with Foster in a more low-profile specific backs role, working solely on the performance of the backline. This all changed after W.Smith left.
The pattern is clear, the All Black's rapid decline is directly correlated with Fozzie's increased influence on the team.
Poor old Foster, it's his fault even when he's not in charge.
I blame him for the 1999 World Cup loss as well.
The prick forgot to wear his lucky underpants that day. It had a ripple effect through the entire cosmos."Earthquake in Peru. Foster to Blame"
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It's really quite frightening how far we've fallen since Foster's role was expanded after Wayne Smith left in 2017.
We used to be 1 step ahead of the curb, constantly innovating & evolving our methods to retain our advantage.
In 2004, Henry came in and said "we need a revolution in how we play, like after the 68 Lions tour". They changed our forward play and everything else.
We never took a backwards step thanks to being open & bringing in knowledge and expertise from variety of different fields, Mick Bryne AFL, Enoka mental skills, Cron, etc.. we did anything to stay ahead of the chasing pack, the humility to admit that perhaps we should bring in some critical outside expertise for this particular area..
Hansen & his descendants have been so arrogant/insular about playing their 'brand' of unstructured, one-dimensional, helter skelter rugby, comfy inside in their own echo chambers, and refuse to evolve tactically and make meaningful adjustments to fundamental areas of our game, instead we have been purposefully neglecting them..
Foster has been involved with this team for a considerably long time now, and the issues that were present years back, still remain there now, and as other teams improve, being exposed even further..
The cluttered forward play, absence of a coherent plan, lack of discernable structure, is all on the coaching staff.
I don't see this coaching team as being able to learn, adapt and more importantly, grow.
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@rotated said in All Blacks 2021:
I'm in favour of a Razor appointment in the style of Rassie, Cheika or Mitch given where we are in the cycle. He is well suited to shake things up and will improve the side in the short term. But we have to be realistic that over the medium to long term the odds are against him.
Change/shake-ups can often bring a temporary improvement ( it's called the Hawthorne Effect) and that, along with a cold, hard look at top level rugby in NZ, is probably the best way forward.
Just swapping out Foster isn't going to fix the bigger problems.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
It's really quite frightening how far we've fallen since Foster's role was expanded after Wayne Smith left in 2017.
I'd say the decline had more to do with the latter than the former.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@rotated said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@l_n_p I'd be happy for Razor to get the top job because of his energy, enthusiasm and ability to get the very best out of his players, but with a heavyweight, experienced Assistant (Smith, Rennie, Joseph, Schmidt, Gatland, even Deans or Mitchell).
Yeah, Razor is an excellent coach & would do a really good job as head coach for the AB's - he has good rugby nous, so certainly wouldn't need to rely heavily on a very experienced coaching assistant - it's not vital if hasn't coached another country overseas, also the bloke is in his mid to late 40's & has won 4 or 5 Super Rugby titles... NZ Super Rugby is based on a really fast paced game, the same style the ABs play, so with all his experience as a Super Rugby coach he's the type of bloke we need, would have liked a Robertson/Brown combo, would be a top mix as one use to play in the forwards & the other in the backs.
Where does this confidence come from? With Smith, Henry, Hansen, Jones, Gatland, McKenzie, Wyllie, Hart and Deans (whichever job you count) shit hit the fan during their first international appointment. Why would Razor be any different and things go to custard like his second campaign with the U20s?
Also why are we so sure that he isn't going to follow the trend of most (but not all) Crusaders/Canterbury coaches having major issues once moving to a different environment?
I'm in favour of a Razor appointment in the style of Rassie, Cheika or Mitch given where we are in the cycle. He is well suited to shake things up and will improve the side in the short term. But we have to be realistic that over the medium to long term the odds are against him.
It pays to note that Razor was only 41 years of age (had only been a pro head coach for 2 years) during that U20 campaign, while they finished with the best points differential, and despite losing that single pool match (2nd seed in their pool, with superior PD to Ireland) didn't quality for the knockouts (2016 was the 1st season where the U20 tournament format changed to having only the no1 seed from each pool going through). He then proceeded to put 71 points and 55 points respectively on Wales & Australia in the plate matches.
Razor's record with the U20's was still 93%, he dropped that one game in 2016, and his 2015 win was NZ's first since 2011.. the longest drought they'd seen.
What's become extensively clear is the biggest issues for NZ under Foster has been the breakdown, set-piece, and winning the contact when carrying.
Crucially, these are 3 areas that Razor and Jason Ryan hold key expertise in.
Razor being a breakdown & ruck specialist and Ryan with our set-pieces.
It's time to finally implement some remedies, the meaningful ones.
They got smashed by Ireland then turned around and burgled a win against Wales with a last minute Jordie Barrett penalty.
Now this was five years ago so no one should hold it too much against him, but he obviously doesn't have some midas touch if we are struggling to put away Wales and Ireland at age group level with him at the helm.
For me success at domestic or Super Rugby level is the price of admission to be considered as AB coach, but only that. One SR title is as good as five to me. More interested in breadth of experience.
What was Shane Warne's sledge on Monty Panesar? He hasn't played thirty tests, he has played the same test thirty times. There is a bit of that with Robertson as there was with Deans.
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@rotated said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@rotated said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@l_n_p I'd be happy for Razor to get the top job because of his energy, enthusiasm and ability to get the very best out of his players, but with a heavyweight, experienced Assistant (Smith, Rennie, Joseph, Schmidt, Gatland, even Deans or Mitchell).
Yeah, Razor is an excellent coach & would do a really good job as head coach for the AB's - he has good rugby nous, so certainly wouldn't need to rely heavily on a very experienced coaching assistant - it's not vital if hasn't coached another country overseas, also the bloke is in his mid to late 40's & has won 4 or 5 Super Rugby titles... NZ Super Rugby is based on a really fast paced game, the same style the ABs play, so with all his experience as a Super Rugby coach he's the type of bloke we need, would have liked a Robertson/Brown combo, would be a top mix as one use to play in the forwards & the other in the backs.
Where does this confidence come from? With Smith, Henry, Hansen, Jones, Gatland, McKenzie, Wyllie, Hart and Deans (whichever job you count) shit hit the fan during their first international appointment. Why would Razor be any different and things go to custard like his second campaign with the U20s?
Also why are we so sure that he isn't going to follow the trend of most (but not all) Crusaders/Canterbury coaches having major issues once moving to a different environment?
I'm in favour of a Razor appointment in the style of Rassie, Cheika or Mitch given where we are in the cycle. He is well suited to shake things up and will improve the side in the short term. But we have to be realistic that over the medium to long term the odds are against him.
It pays to note that Razor was only 41 years of age (had only been a pro head coach for 2 years) during that U20 campaign, while they finished with the best points differential, and despite losing that single pool match (2nd seed in their pool, with superior PD to Ireland) didn't quality for the knockouts (2016 was the 1st season where the U20 tournament format changed to having only the no1 seed from each pool going through). He then proceeded to put 71 points and 55 points respectively on Wales & Australia in the plate matches.
Razor's record with the U20's was still 93%, he dropped that one game in 2016, and his 2015 win was NZ's first since 2011.. the longest drought they'd seen.
What's become extensively clear is the biggest issues for NZ under Foster has been the breakdown, set-piece, and winning the contact when carrying.
Crucially, these are 3 areas that Razor and Jason Ryan hold key expertise in.
Razor being a breakdown & ruck specialist and Ryan with our set-pieces.
It's time to finally implement some remedies, the meaningful ones.
They got smashed by Ireland then turned around and burgled a win against Wales with a last minute Jordie Barrett penalty.
Now this was five years ago so no one should hold it too much against him, but he obviously doesn't have some midas touch if we are struggling to put away Wales and Ireland at age group level with him at the helm.
For me success at domestic or Super Rugby level is the price of admission to be considered as AB coach, but only that. One SR title is as good as five to me. More interested in breadth of experience.
What was Shane Warne's sledge on Monty Panesar? He hasn't played thirty tests, he has played the same test thirty times. There is a bit of that with Robertson as there was with Deans.
They beat Wales 71–12 in their following match.
I've heard accounts from his acquaintances, current and former players, Razor is considered a rugby genius by those who know him personally. Meanwhile, you're mindlessly speculating on the internet. Former All Blacks, who were coached by the very best (Henry, Deans, Hansen) and rate Robertson significantly higher than those listed. Razor is considered Wayne Smith's equal among the players I have talked with.
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@rotated said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@l_n_p I'd be happy for Razor to get the top job because of his energy, enthusiasm and ability to get the very best out of his players, but with a heavyweight, experienced Assistant (Smith, Rennie, Joseph, Schmidt, Gatland, even Deans or Mitchell).
Yeah, Razor is an excellent coach & would do a really good job as head coach for the AB's - he has good rugby nous, so certainly wouldn't need to rely heavily on a very experienced coaching assistant - it's not vital if hasn't coached another country overseas, also the bloke is in his mid to late 40's & has won 4 or 5 Super Rugby titles... NZ Super Rugby is based on a really fast paced game, the same style the ABs play, so with all his experience as a Super Rugby coach he's the type of bloke we need, would have liked a Robertson/Brown combo, would be a top mix as one use to play in the forwards & the other in the backs.
Where does this confidence come from? With Smith, Henry, Hansen, Jones, Gatland, McKenzie, Wyllie, Hart and Deans (whichever job you count) shit hit the fan during their first international appointment. Why would Razor be any different and things go to custard like his second campaign with the U20s?
Also why are we so sure that he isn't going to follow the trend of most (but not all) Crusaders/Canterbury coaches having major issues once moving to a different environment?
I'm in favour of a Razor appointment in the style of Rassie, Cheika or Mitch given where we are in the cycle. He is well suited to shake things up and will improve the side in the short term. But we have to be realistic that over the medium to long term the odds are against him.
International Head Coach is very different from even top Club/Provincial/SR coaching.
Selection, lack of access to players, expectations, man-management, crazy levels of politics and also mind-games?Henry, Hansen, Smith, Eddie Jones all went through that. Schmidt too now. Failing is part of learning
I'd love to see Scott Robertson as AB coach downstream but see prior international experience as hugely useful
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
God I was waiting for the “smith is no better than TJP chat to start”
The smith box kicks too much is so 2017, that hasn’t been a problem for years, yes he went through a phase where he was kicking away possession but like the pro he is he took that criticism and changed, you would be hard pressed to see him box kick now without at least one chaser knowing exactly what’s going on and the rest of the line coming up for the counter which means it is very much the game plan
Other than Smith's pass tell me all these other areas in that position where he's better than TJ, Weber etc ???
It's common bloody sense to weight the ball from a box kick so your players chasing have a chance of regaining it again - what I'm saying is it's a low percentage kick to overdo, think about it ? the ball only travels about 30 metres, even when it's an accurate one you have less than a 50/50 chance of regaining possession in the air back as the other sides players are moving forward towards it... also, like any sport you vary your tactics, so you don't become predictable.
Do you honestly think the box kick is a top tactic to break down a rushing defence ? also find it brainless when a players box kick lands well within his own territory, better to kick the ball out near halfway, even if the other team get the lineout throw, by having the lineout you settle things down, having more time to set your defence.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@rotated said in All Blacks 2021:
I'm in favour of a Razor appointment in the style of Rassie, Cheika or Mitch given where we are in the cycle. He is well suited to shake things up and will improve the side in the short term. But we have to be realistic that over the medium to long term the odds are against him.
Change/shake-ups can often bring a temporary improvement ( it's called the Hawthorne Effect) and that, along with a cold, hard look at top level rugby in NZ, is probably the best way forward.
Just swapping out Foster isn't going to fix the bigger problems.
That doesn't mean we should accept mediocrity & continue persisting with our underwhelming 'continuity' option.
The last season was more farcical than most on here will even admit. Foster only had 4 matches facing genuinely top opposition. We lost 3/4 of those tests. We played 5 tests against T2 teams to pad the numbers + a game against Wales C. I can't think of any other year where we've played so many T2 tests in recent memory. To take that further, we shouldn't be judging ourselves on results against teams we've never lost to once ever. We've played Fiji twice, Tonga, Italy, USA, Argentina (ranked 8th) who are having an abysmal season & an inexperienced rudderless Wallabies (ranked 6th) without all their key game influencers from the SA matches.. 3 times in August.
Foster currently has a win-rate of 71% after playing objectively the most poorly prepared and weakened opposition (besides SA, France/Ire) of any All Black coach in the professional era. Cobbled together teams missing vast amounts of overseas experience and poorly prepared due to Covid restrictions.
We had our worst ever performance against Fiji, being completely dominated at breakdown, and embarrassed there against Italy.
This team continues to look poorly organized, plays with terrible tactics and shows no sign of improving or changing the outdated patterns that have been continued stubbornly for several years now.
The reality is, the All Blacks played just four matches against genuinely top-tier opposition in 2021 & got completely out-coached/outplayed on each occasion. No amount of glossing over can justify the poor game-planning, complete lack of discernable structure of our team, and the cluttered & confused forward orientation.. both on attack and defense.
In contrast to NZ under Foster, the Boks have great coherence as a team unit and exhibit genuine structure on attack and defense, you can observe legitimate co-ordination and actual cohesion in their forward play/patterns.
Well thought out, resourceful strategies to exploit opposition (who would've thought??), proper shape & alignment between individual players on attack and defense. The All Blacks are currently a structureless rabble in comparison...
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@rotated said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@rotated said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2021:
@l_n_p I'd be happy for Razor to get the top job because of his energy, enthusiasm and ability to get the very best out of his players, but with a heavyweight, experienced Assistant (Smith, Rennie, Joseph, Schmidt, Gatland, even Deans or Mitchell).
Yeah, Razor is an excellent coach & would do a really good job as head coach for the AB's - he has good rugby nous, so certainly wouldn't need to rely heavily on a very experienced coaching assistant - it's not vital if hasn't coached another country overseas, also the bloke is in his mid to late 40's & has won 4 or 5 Super Rugby titles... NZ Super Rugby is based on a really fast paced game, the same style the ABs play, so with all his experience as a Super Rugby coach he's the type of bloke we need, would have liked a Robertson/Brown combo, would be a top mix as one use to play in the forwards & the other in the backs.
Where does this confidence come from? With Smith, Henry, Hansen, Jones, Gatland, McKenzie, Wyllie, Hart and Deans (whichever job you count) shit hit the fan during their first international appointment. Why would Razor be any different and things go to custard like his second campaign with the U20s?
Also why are we so sure that he isn't going to follow the trend of most (but not all) Crusaders/Canterbury coaches having major issues once moving to a different environment?
I'm in favour of a Razor appointment in the style of Rassie, Cheika or Mitch given where we are in the cycle. He is well suited to shake things up and will improve the side in the short term. But we have to be realistic that over the medium to long term the odds are against him.
It pays to note that Razor was only 41 years of age (had only been a pro head coach for 2 years) during that U20 campaign, while they finished with the best points differential, and despite losing that single pool match (2nd seed in their pool, with superior PD to Ireland) didn't quality for the knockouts (2016 was the 1st season where the U20 tournament format changed to having only the no1 seed from each pool going through). He then proceeded to put 71 points and 55 points respectively on Wales & Australia in the plate matches.
Razor's record with the U20's was still 93%, he dropped that one game in 2016, and his 2015 win was NZ's first since 2011.. the longest drought they'd seen.
What's become extensively clear is the biggest issues for NZ under Foster has been the breakdown, set-piece, and winning the contact when carrying.
Crucially, these are 3 areas that Razor and Jason Ryan hold key expertise in.
Razor being a breakdown & ruck specialist and Ryan with our set-pieces.
It's time to finally implement some remedies, the meaningful ones.
They got smashed by Ireland then turned around and burgled a win against Wales with a last minute Jordie Barrett penalty.
Now this was five years ago so no one should hold it too much against him, but he obviously doesn't have some midas touch if we are struggling to put away Wales and Ireland at age group level with him at the helm.
For me success at domestic or Super Rugby level is the price of admission to be considered as AB coach, but only that. One SR title is as good as five to me. More interested in breadth of experience.
What was Shane Warne's sledge on Monty Panesar? He hasn't played thirty tests, he has played the same test thirty times. There is a bit of that with Robertson as there was with Deans.
They beat Wales 71–12 in their following match.
I've heard accounts from his acquaintances, current and former players, Razor is considered a rugby genius by those who know him personally. Meanwhile, you're mindlessly speculating on the internet. Former All Blacks, who were coached by the very best (Henry, Deans, Hansen) and rate Robertson significantly higher than those listed. Razor is considered Wayne Smith's equal among the players I have talked with.
Yet Wayne Smith wasn't the best AB coach, and his (2-year?) experience there showed him that? Not saying Scott Robertson is the same, just that failing at international level is part of learning your stengths - and more importantly weaknesses at the top level.
Henry and Eddie Jones have both spoken openly about what they got wrong
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
God I was waiting for the “smith is no better than TJP chat to start”
The smith box kicks too much is so 2017, that hasn’t been a problem for years, yes he went through a phase where he was kicking away possession but like the pro he is he took that criticism and changed, you would be hard pressed to see him box kick now without at least one chaser knowing exactly what’s going on and the rest of the line coming up for the counter which means it is very much the game plan
Other than Smith's pass tell me all these other areas in that position where he's better than TJ, Weber etc ???
It's common bloody sense to weight the ball from a box kick so your players chasing have a chance of regaining it again - what I'm saying is it's a low percentage kick to overdo, think about it ? the ball only travels about 30 metres, even when it's an accurate one you have less than a 50/50 chance of regaining possession in the air back as the other sides players are moving forward towards it... also, like any sport you vary your tactics, so you don't become predictable.
Do you honestly think the box kick is a top tactic to break down a rushing defence ? also find it brainless when a players box kick lands well within his own territory, better to kick the ball out near halfway, even if the other team get the lineout throw, by having the lineout you settle things down, having more time to set your defence.
You know we had this discussion before aye?
Might just be me but I’d always considered passing to be pretty important for a halfback
Listing all the areas where smith is better than tj would be listing all the aspects of rugby…so I’m just going to say rugby…smith is better at rugby than tj…currently at least
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
God I was waiting for the “smith is no better than TJP chat to start”
The smith box kicks too much is so 2017, that hasn’t been a problem for years, yes he went through a phase where he was kicking away possession but like the pro he is he took that criticism and changed, you would be hard pressed to see him box kick now without at least one chaser knowing exactly what’s going on and the rest of the line coming up for the counter which means it is very much the game plan
Other than Smith's pass tell me all these other areas in that position where he's better than TJ, Weber etc ???
It's common bloody sense to weight the ball from a box kick so your players chasing have a chance of regaining it again - what I'm saying is it's a low percentage kick to overdo, think about it ? the ball only travels about 30 metres, even when it's an accurate one you have less than a 50/50 chance of regaining possession in the air back as the other sides players are moving forward towards it... also, like any sport you vary your tactics, so you don't become predictable.
Do you honestly think the box kick is a top tactic to break down a rushing defence ? also find it brainless when a players box kick lands well within his own territory, better to kick the ball out near halfway, even if the other team get the lineout throw, by having the lineout you settle things down, having more time to set your defence.
You know we had this discussion before aye?
Might just be me but I’d always considered passing to be pretty important for a halfback
Listing all the areas where smith is better than tj would be listing all the aspects of rugby…so I’m just going to say rugby…smith is better at rugby than tj…currently at least
Yeah, we had the same discussion before on another sports site... but you still haven't really answered it.
Naturally having a good passing game is very important for any halfback to have, we all know Smith is better in that area than any of our other 9's - he basically relies on two things though, passing & a heap of aimless box kicking... clearly he's no better in other areas at 9 than Weber or TJ, a halfback needs to make darting runs, add a few well waited grubbers into space etc too, mix it up, having more skilled options on attack constantly keeps the opposition in two minds, making that 9 even worth more value to the team.
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
God I was waiting for the “smith is no better than TJP chat to start”
The smith box kicks too much is so 2017, that hasn’t been a problem for years, yes he went through a phase where he was kicking away possession but like the pro he is he took that criticism and changed, you would be hard pressed to see him box kick now without at least one chaser knowing exactly what’s going on and the rest of the line coming up for the counter which means it is very much the game plan
Other than Smith's pass tell me all these other areas in that position where he's better than TJ, Weber etc ???
It's common bloody sense to weight the ball from a box kick so your players chasing have a chance of regaining it again - what I'm saying is it's a low percentage kick to overdo, think about it ? the ball only travels about 30 metres, even when it's an accurate one you have less than a 50/50 chance of regaining possession in the air back as the other sides players are moving forward towards it... also, like any sport you vary your tactics, so you don't become predictable.
Do you honestly think the box kick is a top tactic to break down a rushing defence ? also find it brainless when a players box kick lands well within his own territory, better to kick the ball out near halfway, even if the other team get the lineout throw, by having the lineout you settle things down, having more time to set your defence.
You know we had this discussion before aye?
Might just be me but I’d always considered passing to be pretty important for a halfback
Listing all the areas where smith is better than tj would be listing all the aspects of rugby…so I’m just going to say rugby…smith is better at rugby than tj…currently at least
Yeah, we had the same discussion before on another sports site... but you still haven't really answered it.
Naturally having a good passing game is very important for any halfback to have, we all know Smith is better in that area than any of our other 9's - he basically relies on two things though, passing & a heap of aimless box kicking... but also a halfback needs to make darting runs, add a few well waited grubbers into space etc, mix it up, having more skilled options on attack constantly keeps the opposition in two minds, making that 9 even worth more value to the team.
have you watched Smith play?? You are right when you say he has a great pass, but I not sure you have noticed one of his other greatest assets is how fit he is, he is always at breakdown waiting to clear ball, and it's not as coomon as may think. The try ABs scored against Ireland in overtime a few years back, from start to finish of the movement Smith handles the ball about 10 times, that is extraordinary for a player who started the match to keep getting vthere and hitting players with passes. His pass is not only quick but by far the most accurate I have seen, his ability to hit one player he wants on the run is best by far of any I have seen. He is actually pretty handy on the break, but as Kiwiwomble rightly says he just a better rugby player than others named. as his decisions are generally so good! Hell I a Canes man, but TJ who has his own strengths is nowhere near Smith's all round game!
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew. We've played Fiji twice, Tonga, Italy, USA, Argentina (ranked 8th) who are having an abysmal season & an inexperienced rudderless Wallabies (ranked 6th) without all their key game influencers from the SA matches..
I like the way you manage to cherry pick facts for arguments.
How was Aussie without their key game influencers, does Rennie not picking them suggest he didn't think they were the influencers that you think.
Also weren't ABs without the same in a lot of games, unless you are suggesting that Smith isn't a a big influence how ABs play and ditto with Sam Whitelock etc.
I have said before I not saying that Foster should or should not be coach, just simply saying you have to use same yardstick to measure all teams. Hell ABs were without BB for test against France and most of test against Ireland, it's not an excuse for them losing, just saying most proper rugby pundits picked him as their 10 of the year, but it doesn't excuse or otherwise the results. You have to be consistent on how you chose to judge coaches etc. -
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2021:
@rotated said in All Blacks 2021:
I'm in favour of a Razor appointment in the style of Rassie, Cheika or Mitch given where we are in the cycle. He is well suited to shake things up and will improve the side in the short term. But we have to be realistic that over the medium to long term the odds are against him.
Change/shake-ups can often bring a temporary improvement ( it's called the Hawthorne Effect) and that, along with a cold, hard look at top level rugby in NZ, is probably the best way forward.
Just swapping out Foster isn't going to fix the bigger problems.
Those problems are a pretty easy fix though - the guts of it is that the forwards are not doing the hard yakka by taking the ball up, so the backs are not getting good platforms to work from, also we need a shake-up in the set pieces... & the playmakers 9 & 10 are not making smart decisions.
We have a head coach & assistant coach that are way out of their depth... if one of the following, Robertson, Schmidt, Brown or Joseph replaced him as head coach & with their own assistant they'd fix this shambles Foster created pretty quickly. -
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