Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022
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@african-monkey said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@chris Yeah I get that, but he's 63 tests deep now and we need more from him against these bigger sides.
I really want him to succeed (and he has to a degree), but its time for him to take his game to the next level in the next few years and go from a decent opener to a world class opener as he has all the tools to become world class, as he is just as accomplished on both the back and front foot. Has a tendency to lose concentration against the bigger sides at times where he gifts his wicket away.
He has “to a degree?” What more do you need ?
Currently sitting eighth on the list of best test batting average for the Black Caps, of all time……42.50…..bear in mind this is as an opener so it’s historically much tougher to get a high number than other positions. 12 test hundreds which is 4th equal…..( only KW, Crowe and Taylor clear of him )
30 years old and lots of years left…..yes he hasn’t scored big against some opponents but as someone else said look how historically shite so many of our openers have been. You can also pick and choose stats to talk up, or talk down any player.
Given we have Kane having the next Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Gavaskar or Hayden playing at the same time might be a stretch
He’s an absolute champ in my eyes.
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@mn5 He's good enough to become a world class opener, so why be content with what He's done? I'm sure he himself knows this, and yes, stats don't lie, but they don't tell a full story either.
His record is similar to guys like Dean Elgar and Karunaratne, 2 guys who make the most of their limitations but aren't as good as Latham imo. Tamim Iqbal is in the same boat as Latham but his problem throughout his career has been a lack of a brain. Latham, as I said in an earlier post, has been lapses of concentration against bigger sides so far in his career.
My point is, is that guys like Latham and Iqbal should be averaging 45+ as they're both good enough to.
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@african-monkey said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@chris Yeah I get that, but he's 63 tests deep now and we need more from him against these bigger sides.
I really want him to succeed (and he has to a degree), but its time for him to take his game to the next level in the next few years and go from a decent opener to a world class opener as he has all the tools to become world class, as he is just as accomplished on both the back and front foot. Has a tendency to lose concentration against the bigger sides at times where he gifts his wicket away.
Good on him for cashing in here, but it's hard to see him in our best ever team at this stage.
He averages under 30 against Aussie, which IMO, is the defining criteria for us.
Taking out the Zimbos and Bangles, he's still behind a few and I doubt he'll get close to them.
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@gt12 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@african-monkey said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@chris Yeah I get that, but he's 63 tests deep now and we need more from him against these bigger sides.
I really want him to succeed (and he has to a degree), but its time for him to take his game to the next level in the next few years and go from a decent opener to a world class opener as he has all the tools to become world class, as he is just as accomplished on both the back and front foot. Has a tendency to lose concentration against the bigger sides at times where he gifts his wicket away.
Good on him for cashing in here, but it's hard to see him in our best ever team at this stage.
He averages under 30 against Aussie, which IMO, is the defining criteria for us.
Taking out the Zimbos and Bangles, he's still behind a few and I doubt he'll get close to them.
Yeah but some of these stats were not exactly against vintage Australian teams, in some cases far from it. Rigor averaged 22, not surprising when up against McGrath, Warne and whoever else. Wright and Edgar did ok against some comparatively weak teams. Turner did very well though.
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
Yeah, Mitchell isn't going to be a world class all-rounder... we're still looking for one, we've had plenty of top all-rounders before, so we should be able to find another one in the near future.
Our batting was very tentative in the first test... good to see that their movements are much more positive, moving the feet well, getting in line with the ball & leaving when needed.
It's ridiculous when batsmen leave the ball & get cleaned bowled or LBW... if you feel the ball is threatening your stumps get in line with it & play with soft hands so there's not much chance of the ball carrying to the keeper or slips.
I don’t reckon. They’re pretty scarce at the best of times and when Mitchell Starc is rated fifth best in the world you know that there’s a dearth of talent all over the world. Another Cairns, Vettori or especially Paddles would be great but don’t hold your breath.
India are just being greedy with Jadeja and Ashwin playing at the same time.
You're probably right - just such a big asset to have a top all-rounder in your side... yeah, don't see Starc as much of an all-rounder, he's basically a bloody slogger with the bat.
Those two calls by the umpire were shockers... the Banglas must have given him a gold watch
All rounder is a term that’s thrown round far too liberally. I think there’s only Holder, Al Hasan, Jadeja, Ashwin and Stokes playing now that deserve the label.
Paddles himself admitted he was really only “just” an all rounder given his record with the bat.
Yeah, a true all-rounder has the ability to consistently make a big diff to his team with either bat or ball... Hadlee's batting was very handy for us when we needed runs quickly, the bloke was a superb striker of the ball, it was unusual how he bowled right-handed, but use to bat left-handed.
Not usual but not necessarily that unheard of for bowler to bat the wrong way around.
Without thinking too hard I can name:
Martin Sneddon
Gary Troupe (both contemporaries of Hadlee)
Stuart Broad
Ben Stokes
Jimmy Anderson
Trent BoultThere are others but that would require research.
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@booboo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
Yeah, Mitchell isn't going to be a world class all-rounder... we're still looking for one, we've had plenty of top all-rounders before, so we should be able to find another one in the near future.
Our batting was very tentative in the first test... good to see that their movements are much more positive, moving the feet well, getting in line with the ball & leaving when needed.
It's ridiculous when batsmen leave the ball & get cleaned bowled or LBW... if you feel the ball is threatening your stumps get in line with it & play with soft hands so there's not much chance of the ball carrying to the keeper or slips.
I don’t reckon. They’re pretty scarce at the best of times and when Mitchell Starc is rated fifth best in the world you know that there’s a dearth of talent all over the world. Another Cairns, Vettori or especially Paddles would be great but don’t hold your breath.
India are just being greedy with Jadeja and Ashwin playing at the same time.
You're probably right - just such a big asset to have a top all-rounder in your side... yeah, don't see Starc as much of an all-rounder, he's basically a bloody slogger with the bat.
Those two calls by the umpire were shockers... the Banglas must have given him a gold watch
All rounder is a term that’s thrown round far too liberally. I think there’s only Holder, Al Hasan, Jadeja, Ashwin and Stokes playing now that deserve the label.
Paddles himself admitted he was really only “just” an all rounder given his record with the bat.
Yeah, a true all-rounder has the ability to consistently make a big diff to his team with either bat or ball... Hadlee's batting was very handy for us when we needed runs quickly, the bloke was a superb striker of the ball, it was unusual how he bowled right-handed, but use to bat left-handed.
Not usual but not necessarily that unheard of for bowler to bat the wrong way around.
Without thinking too hard I can name:
Martin Sneddon
Gary Troupe (both contemporaries of Hadlee)
Stuart Broad
Ben Stokes
Jimmy Anderson
Trent BoultThere are others but that would require research.
Good list, can add Chris Harris as well.
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@godder said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@booboo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
Yeah, Mitchell isn't going to be a world class all-rounder... we're still looking for one, we've had plenty of top all-rounders before, so we should be able to find another one in the near future.
Our batting was very tentative in the first test... good to see that their movements are much more positive, moving the feet well, getting in line with the ball & leaving when needed.
It's ridiculous when batsmen leave the ball & get cleaned bowled or LBW... if you feel the ball is threatening your stumps get in line with it & play with soft hands so there's not much chance of the ball carrying to the keeper or slips.
I don’t reckon. They’re pretty scarce at the best of times and when Mitchell Starc is rated fifth best in the world you know that there’s a dearth of talent all over the world. Another Cairns, Vettori or especially Paddles would be great but don’t hold your breath.
India are just being greedy with Jadeja and Ashwin playing at the same time.
You're probably right - just such a big asset to have a top all-rounder in your side... yeah, don't see Starc as much of an all-rounder, he's basically a bloody slogger with the bat.
Those two calls by the umpire were shockers... the Banglas must have given him a gold watch
All rounder is a term that’s thrown round far too liberally. I think there’s only Holder, Al Hasan, Jadeja, Ashwin and Stokes playing now that deserve the label.
Paddles himself admitted he was really only “just” an all rounder given his record with the bat.
Yeah, a true all-rounder has the ability to consistently make a big diff to his team with either bat or ball... Hadlee's batting was very handy for us when we needed runs quickly, the bloke was a superb striker of the ball, it was unusual how he bowled right-handed, but use to bat left-handed.
Not usual but not necessarily that unheard of for bowler to bat the wrong way around.
Without thinking too hard I can name:
Martin Sneddon
Gary Troupe (both contemporaries of Hadlee)
Stuart Broad
Ben Stokes
Jimmy Anderson
Trent BoultThere are others but that would require research.
Good list, can add Chris Harris as well.
Bat left, bowl right is reasonably common.
Contemporary NZ players like Jacob Oram and Mark Craig did too. I've seen Flem bowl right arm tweakers in a tour match.
Fewer seem to go the other way, Michael Clarke and Zaheer Khan are the only two that come to mind bowling left and batting right.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bugger, 99 not out. Might be a tough sleep tonight
With the composure Conway has reckon he won't be too worried... can't see him chasing anything early, he'll let the bowlers bowl to him, they only have to bowl one middle & leg & he'll work a single on the leg side.
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bugger, 99 not out. Might be a tough sleep tonight
With the composure Conway has reckon he won't be too worried... can't see him chasing anything early, he'll let the bowlers bowl to him, they only have to bowl one middle & leg & he'll work a single on the leg side.
Great call. Ton number three for Conway woooooooo ! First ball of the day too !!!!
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@rotated said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
It took Flem from 1994 to the final test of 2001 to chalk up three test centuries. Conway has three in barely half a year. Class.
I call rubbish, but I know it isn't as you wouldn't just post that stat by making it up!
It still seems rubbish though
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@hooroo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@rotated said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
It took Flem from 1994 to the final test of 2001 to chalk up three test centuries. Conway has three in barely half a year. Class.
I call rubbish, but I know it isn't as you wouldn't just post that stat by making it up!
It still seems rubbish though
McCullum was much quicker it only took from 2004 to 2009.
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@rotated said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@hooroo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@rotated said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
It took Flem from 1994 to the final test of 2001 to chalk up three test centuries. Conway has three in barely half a year. Class.
I call rubbish, but I know it isn't as you wouldn't just post that stat by making it up!
It still seems rubbish though
McCullum was much quicker it only took from 2004 to 2009.
I can believe that thought batting at 6&7 early in his career in average Black Caps team.
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Just as well the first three scored so much, the last seven may score 80 between them
