All Blacks 2021
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@voodoo I think the gameplan doesn't help the physicality either, too loose and almost like they are trying to avoid heavy contact zones meaning when teams muscle up, we have the wrong players in the right areas of the park to take them on.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Also, I remember a video segment from RNZ where he mentions his desire to quote 'show that he is 'innovative'..
And to be fair to him... being the first AB coach to lose to Argentina, was a ground-breaking achievement for Foz.
I think the worst thing he claimed, and didn't deliver on, was the commitment to physicality in the forwards.
He correctly identified the issue, then failed completely to bring along/select the right players to address the problem
We have played powder puff (copyright Walrus) rugby all year.
Go to 55 seconds, he pretty much addresses this, and even gets pressed further by Campbell about it.
Mortifying to watch now after what's since transpired under Fozzie, he hasn't fulfilled these points to any degree.
Watching this right now it's apparent he's completely & utterly out of his depth as an international coach & is simply clueless with regards to the best course of action that should be required for this team going forward.
Just words alone cannot describe the inadequacy on display here.
How is this level of incompetence acceptable for the NZR?
It's crazy that when they go up the guts and work off nine, they get go forward and dominance. But it is hardly ever used
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Also, I remember a video segment from RNZ where he mentions his desire to quote 'show that he is 'innovative'..
And to be fair to him... being the first AB coach to lose to Argentina, was a ground-breaking achievement for Foz.
I think the worst thing he claimed, and didn't deliver on, was the commitment to physicality in the forwards.
He correctly identified the issue, then failed completely to bring along/select the right players to address the problem
We have played powder puff (copyright Walrus) rugby all year.
Go to 55 seconds, he pretty much addresses this, and even gets pressed further by Campbell about it.
Mortifying to watch now after what's since transpired under Fozzie, he hasn't fulfilled these points to any degree.
Watching this right now it's apparent he's completely & utterly out of his depth as an international coach & is simply clueless with regards to the best course of action that should be required for this team going forward.
Just words alone cannot describe the inadequacy on display here.
How is this level of incompetence acceptable for the NZR?
It’s very scary going forward what a mess Foster is going to make of the AB’s in the next 2 years.
Totally out of his depth as you said above.
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I am not particularly anti-Fozzie but the signs aren't great. The game has well and truly moved on and the ABs are now being reactive to better teams rather than being innovative or revolutionary. Basically chasing the pack.
What worries me the most is that some players are being scapegoated but I truly believe, no matter who you put in this old and tired system that has been worked out and surpassed by other teams, the results will be the same. The writing was on the wall for change in 2017, and we are now heading into 2022 with talk of tweaks and changes in selection to make the "system" work. -
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Also, I remember a video segment from RNZ where he mentions his desire to quote 'show that he is 'innovative'..
And to be fair to him... being the first AB coach to lose to Argentina, was a ground-breaking achievement for Foz.
I think the worst thing he claimed, and didn't deliver on, was the commitment to physicality in the forwards.
He correctly identified the issue, then failed completely to bring along/select the right players to address the problem
We have played powder puff (copyright Walrus) rugby all year.
Go to 55 seconds, he pretty much addresses this, and even gets pressed further by Campbell about it.
Mortifying to watch now after what's since transpired under Fozzie, he hasn't fulfilled these points to any degree.
Watching this right now it's apparent he's completely & utterly out of his depth as an international coach & is simply clueless with regards to the best course of action that should be required for this team going forward.
Just words alone cannot describe the inadequacy on display here.
How is this level of incompetence acceptable for the NZR?
States the obvious; "we got smacked against England, what have we learnt from that?" and then proceeds to vomit HR twaddle about "freshening an organisation, how we deliver messages, the people that we use to deliver messages, grow our leaders, grow our mental skills, culture, younger group of players coming through from different backgrounds that we need to take into account and figure out how we link and communicate with them."
And some people still wonder why we've seen no development in how we play in over two years? He's not helped by the snivelling shit of an interviewer, but if that was the brief to the NZR selection committee, small wonder the game is in the parlous state it is. From the top down the organisation is being replaced with mediocrity and as they permeate through it becomes harder to identify them.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Also, I remember a video segment from RNZ where he mentions his desire to quote 'show that he is 'innovative'..
And to be fair to him... being the first AB coach to lose to Argentina, was a ground-breaking achievement for Foz.
I think the worst thing he claimed, and didn't deliver on, was the commitment to physicality in the forwards.
He correctly identified the issue, then failed completely to bring along/select the right players to address the problem
We have played powder puff (copyright Walrus) rugby all year.
Go to 55 seconds, he pretty much addresses this, and even gets pressed further by Campbell about it.
Mortifying to watch now after what's since transpired under Fozzie, he hasn't fulfilled these points to any degree.
Watching this right now it's apparent he's completely & utterly out of his depth as an international coach & is simply clueless with regards to the best course of action that should be required for this team going forward.
Just words alone cannot describe the inadequacy on display here.
How is this level of incompetence acceptable for the NZR?
States the obvious; "we got smacked against England, what have we learnt from that?" and then proceeds to vomit HR twaddle about "freshening an organisation, how we deliver messages, the people that we use to deliver messages, grow our leaders, grow our mental skills, culture, younger group of players coming through from different backgrounds that we need to take into account and figure out how we link and communicate with them."
And some people still wonder why we've seen no development in how we play in over two years? He's not helped by the snivelling shit of an interviewer, but if that was the brief to the NZR selection committee, small wonder the game is in the parlous state it is. From the top down the organisation is being replaced with mediocrity and as they permeate through it becomes harder to identify them.
It all starts at the top, because we have idiots on the NZRU Board we end up with an incompetent coach - even though we won The Rugby Championship you could see the cracks appearing... on the UK tour we lost really badly against Ireland, didn't learn from those obvious mistakes, so lost the same pathetic way against France too.
We are not even doing the basics in the forwards when we have possession, there's a real lack of mongrel/urgency taking the ball up, also we're not getting enough numbers to clean, blowing their players out the way so we can get quicker ball to our backs.
Foster's tactic to use box kicks to counter the rushing defence is pathetic... when the opposition are really slowing your ball down you need to kick, but is has to be smart kicking, like wipers kicks deep towards the sideline or corners, get them scrambling back, because the opposition are standing up so flat with this rugby league type defence there's going to be acres of space behind them.
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@kiwibloke Yes, I don't get why the All Blacks are playing a game plan years old. Every man and his dog can see the game is played in the opposition's half so kicking should be long and to space, not "contestable" box kicks in your own half.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke Yes, I don't get why the All Blacks are playing a game plan years old. Every man and his dog can see the game is played in the opposition's half so kicking should be long and to space, not "contestable" box kicks in your own half.
Yeah, if you're not doing the basics in any sport you're asking for big trouble... Robertson was the obvious bloke for head coach, instead we have a moron doing the job.
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@antipodean Steyn gave us the ultimate lesson in this in the last Championship game by pinning the ABs in their own territory and yet.......
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean Steyn gave us the ultimate lesson in this in the last Championship game by pinning the ABs in their own territory and yet.......
Exactly mate, he constantly pinned us in our own corner with just good common sense thinking, but we continue to kick aimlessly in general play, it's up to our playmakers to read play properly, applying pressure by at least kicking into space so we can put the squeeze on them.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke Yes, I don't get why the All Blacks are playing a game plan years old. Every man and his dog can see the game is played in the opposition's half so kicking should be long and to space, not "contestable" box kicks in your own half.
As Squidge pointed out the only less invative attack he's seen is Canada, that's pretty fucking damning.
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Also, I remember a video segment from RNZ where he mentions his desire to quote 'show that he is 'innovative'..
And to be fair to him... being the first AB coach to lose to Argentina, was a ground-breaking achievement for Foz.
I think the worst thing he claimed, and didn't deliver on, was the commitment to physicality in the forwards.
He correctly identified the issue, then failed completely to bring along/select the right players to address the problem
We have played powder puff (copyright Walrus) rugby all year.
Go to 55 seconds, he pretty much addresses this, and even gets pressed further by Campbell about it.
Mortifying to watch now after what's since transpired under Fozzie, he hasn't fulfilled these points to any degree.
Watching this right now it's apparent he's completely & utterly out of his depth as an international coach & is simply clueless with regards to the best course of action that should be required for this team going forward.
Just words alone cannot describe the inadequacy on display here.
How is this level of incompetence acceptable for the NZR?
States the obvious; "we got smacked against England, what have we learnt from that?" and then proceeds to vomit HR twaddle about "freshening an organisation, how we deliver messages, the people that we use to deliver messages, grow our leaders, grow our mental skills, culture, younger group of players coming through from different backgrounds that we need to take into account and figure out how we link and communicate with them."
And some people still wonder why we've seen no development in how we play in over two years? He's not helped by the snivelling shit of an interviewer, but if that was the brief to the NZR selection committee, small wonder the game is in the parlous state it is. From the top down the organisation is being replaced with mediocrity and as they permeate through it becomes harder to identify them.
It all starts at the top, because we have idiots on the NZRU Board we end up with an incompetent coach - even though we won The Rugby Championship you could see the cracks appearing... on the UK tour we lost really badly against Ireland, didn't learn from those obvious mistakes, so lost the same pathetic way against France too.
We are not even doing the basics in the forwards when we have possession, there's a real lack of mongrel/urgency taking the ball up, also we're not getting enough numbers to clean, blowing their players out the way so we can get quicker ball to our backs.
Foster's tactic to use box kicks to counter the rushing defence is pathetic... when the opposition are really slowing your ball down you need to kick, but is has to be smart kicking, like wipers kicks deep towards the sideline or corners, get them scrambling back, because the opposition are standing up so flat with this rugby league type defence there's going to be acres of space behind them.
Yep agree with your post nothing is going to change with the wee Fat man in charge.Evreryone can see we are tactically inept but him.
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
it's up to our playmakers to read play properly, applying pressure by at least kicking into space so we can put the squeeze on them.
although, what if how/where they are kicking is following the game plan?
These players didnt suddenly lose thier talent and skills, they may be low on confidence though...
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
although, what if how/where they are kicking is following the game plan?
These players didnt suddenly lose thier talent and skills, they may be low on confidence though...
It is interesting. Although no DC, Ritchie guides the Crusaders around the park well and we all know BB can do the same. One of JB's strengths is the long raking punt which can make some serious metres. So why the headless chook stupidity at AB level?
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Also, I remember a video segment from RNZ where he mentions his desire to quote 'show that he is 'innovative'..
And to be fair to him... being the first AB coach to lose to Argentina, was a ground-breaking achievement for Foz.
I think the worst thing he claimed, and didn't deliver on, was the commitment to physicality in the forwards.
He correctly identified the issue, then failed completely to bring along/select the right players to address the problem
We have played powder puff (copyright Walrus) rugby all year.
Go to 55 seconds, he pretty much addresses this, and even gets pressed further by Campbell about it.
Mortifying to watch now after what's since transpired under Fozzie, he hasn't fulfilled these points to any degree.
Watching this right now it's apparent he's completely & utterly out of his depth as an international coach & is simply clueless with regards to the best course of action that should be required for this team going forward.
Just words alone cannot describe the inadequacy on display here.
How is this level of incompetence acceptable for the NZR?
States the obvious; "we got smacked against England, what have we learnt from that?" and then proceeds to vomit HR twaddle about "freshening an organisation, how we deliver messages, the people that we use to deliver messages, grow our leaders, grow our mental skills, culture, younger group of players coming through from different backgrounds that we need to take into account and figure out how we link and communicate with them."
And some people still wonder why we've seen no development in how we play in over two years? He's not helped by the snivelling shit of an interviewer, but if that was the brief to the NZR selection committee, small wonder the game is in the parlous state it is. From the top down the organisation is being replaced with mediocrity and as they permeate through it becomes harder to identify them.
It all starts at the top, because we have idiots on the NZRU Board we end up with an incompetent coach - even though we won The Rugby Championship you could see the cracks appearing... on the UK tour we lost really badly against Ireland, didn't learn from those obvious mistakes, so lost the same pathetic way against France too.
We are not even doing the basics in the forwards when we have possession, there's a real lack of mongrel/urgency taking the ball up, also we're not getting enough numbers to clean, blowing their players out the way so we can get quicker ball to our backs.
Foster's tactic to use box kicks to counter the rushing defence is pathetic... when the opposition are really slowing your ball down you need to kick, but is has to be smart kicking, like wipers kicks deep towards the sideline or corners, get them scrambling back, because the opposition are standing up so flat with this rugby league type defence there's going to be acres of space behind them.
"It all starts at the top". Is it just me who feels that SuperRugby for all it's intensity in the NZ derbies, no longer prepares teams for an elite international defensive structure?
(There's a great 1014 interview on Youtube with Scott Robertson and Ronan O'Gara where Scott admits that ROG really challenged his own ideas on defense ... just a good example)
Regaining a coaching innovation edge is only part of the problem, I suspect some some structural issues and complacency are underpinning this too
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@l_n_p said in All Blacks 2021:
(There's a great 1014 interview on Youtube with Scott Robertson and Ronan O'Gara where Scott admits that ROG really challenged his own ideas on defense ... just a good example)
IIRC ROG is a proponent of the NH style of defense where they watch the ball rather than players. Perfect for combating the All Blacks. Quite a different kettle of fish when you have players in motion.
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@antipodean Yeah, I watched that - not proposing it, just an example of Scott Robertson setting a healthy example of being prepared be challenged on his thinking ... and to import coaching IP/insight where useful
People may disagree but I don't think the step up from "NZ-derby-level" Super Rugby to elite international is just about physicality, NZ derbies are often brutal. It's structural i.e. given how the game has developed, has NZR (really) adapted top-down given that AB brand/success is the golden-goose? Evidence suggests it just hasn't ... recently
Maybe NZR need a more self-critical look at local SR coaching structure and talent given that they control/run/fund SR "top down" to feed AB success ... focus on coaching (innovation/depth/pay(!)/retention/acquisition/international vs local pay differentials).
Set a coaching benchmark to have ABs and fringe-ABs playing against better defensive structures as the "new norm" etc
(1) Far easier said than done and (2) Needs NZR investment - long-term strategy is like that though - this kind of thinking is part of what they are paid for, not just cutting commercial deals and rehiring a continuity coach?
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@l_n_p said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Also, I remember a video segment from RNZ where he mentions his desire to quote 'show that he is 'innovative'..
And to be fair to him... being the first AB coach to lose to Argentina, was a ground-breaking achievement for Foz.
I think the worst thing he claimed, and didn't deliver on, was the commitment to physicality in the forwards.
He correctly identified the issue, then failed completely to bring along/select the right players to address the problem
We have played powder puff (copyright Walrus) rugby all year.
Go to 55 seconds, he pretty much addresses this, and even gets pressed further by Campbell about it.
Mortifying to watch now after what's since transpired under Fozzie, he hasn't fulfilled these points to any degree.
Watching this right now it's apparent he's completely & utterly out of his depth as an international coach & is simply clueless with regards to the best course of action that should be required for this team going forward.
Just words alone cannot describe the inadequacy on display here.
How is this level of incompetence acceptable for the NZR?
States the obvious; "we got smacked against England, what have we learnt from that?" and then proceeds to vomit HR twaddle about "freshening an organisation, how we deliver messages, the people that we use to deliver messages, grow our leaders, grow our mental skills, culture, younger group of players coming through from different backgrounds that we need to take into account and figure out how we link and communicate with them."
And some people still wonder why we've seen no development in how we play in over two years? He's not helped by the snivelling shit of an interviewer, but if that was the brief to the NZR selection committee, small wonder the game is in the parlous state it is. From the top down the organisation is being replaced with mediocrity and as they permeate through it becomes harder to identify them.
It all starts at the top, because we have idiots on the NZRU Board we end up with an incompetent coach - even though we won The Rugby Championship you could see the cracks appearing... on the UK tour we lost really badly against Ireland, didn't learn from those obvious mistakes, so lost the same pathetic way against France too.
We are not even doing the basics in the forwards when we have possession, there's a real lack of mongrel/urgency taking the ball up, also we're not getting enough numbers to clean, blowing their players out the way so we can get quicker ball to our backs.
Foster's tactic to use box kicks to counter the rushing defence is pathetic... when the opposition are really slowing your ball down you need to kick, but is has to be smart kicking, like wipers kicks deep towards the sideline or corners, get them scrambling back, because the opposition are standing up so flat with this rugby league type defence there's going to be acres of space behind them.
"It all starts at the top". Is it just me who feels that SuperRugby for all it's intensity in the NZ derbies, no longer prepares teams for an elite international defensive structure?
(There's a great 1014 interview on Youtube with Scott Robertson and Ronan O'Gara where Scott admits that ROG really challenged his own ideas on defense ... just a good example)
Regaining a coaching innovation edge is only part of the problem, I suspect some some structural issues and complacency are underpinning this too
Spot on mate - it's not just a problem with Super Rugby, but in world rugby too.
Heaps of times in games we see a ton of aimless kicking, deep down the middle of the field directly to a player, that's just giving good possession away, also those bloody box kicks are way overdone, need to vary your tactics accurately.
Players tend to grubber kick directly into the legs of an opposition player & don't get the weight on the ball right either, if they had any sense they'd look to guide the ball along the deck between the other sides players.
Really annoys me when dumb intercept tries are given away & silly passes in general are thrown to gift the opposition the ball, also charge downs from kicks - christ, these blokes are meant to be professionals ? ...these things would hardly ever happen if each player bothered to read the game properly & have a quick look for a split second to see if a kick or pass was on or not, clearly if it isn't go to ground & set the ball up.
