All Blacks 2022
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2022:
@duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
from the nzh article posted earlier:
It is thought his role will likely see him help head coach Ian Foster analyse opposition sides and develop strategic plans to help the All Blacks build the tactical blueprints they will need to succeed against teams who stylistically present a different challenge to the ruck and run rugby preferred throughout Australasia.sounds like a attack coach
Ireland's attack wasn't exactly great under Schmidt.
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Brilliant response to a mediocre end to the season. Bring in fresh thinking to challenge the status quo. We need to find a role for Robertson and have him work alongside Foster leading up to RWC 2023.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
Fuck me drunk.
That RugbyPass article is such a bloody shit show. Talking about pick and goes as 'brain dead rugby'. Ben Smith and I fundamentally disagree on this. Imposing forward dominance around the ruck creates space outside. It's exactly the opposite of brain dead rugby - trying to spin it wide early is the kind of brain dead play we've seen too much of from the ABs this year.
The comments from Foster and Cane don't suggest that they are going to go 'full monty' towards braindead rugby, and that only 'two or three phases' of the tight stuff might solve the gain line issue, but given the inability of this side to run a decent attacking shape it won't make a difference unless fundamental details are addressed.
This.
Given where the pack is at - especially the tight 5 - and the fact the overall plan still seems to be to get the ball to the backs with space to use their natural talent, this tactic seems tailor-made for this team.
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@frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2022:
@duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
from the nzh article posted earlier:
It is thought his role will likely see him help head coach Ian Foster analyse opposition sides and develop strategic plans to help the All Blacks build the tactical blueprints they will need to succeed against teams who stylistically present a different challenge to the ruck and run rugby preferred throughout Australasia.sounds like a attack coach
Ireland's attack wasn't exactly great under Schmidt.
good enough to beat us a couple of times, with players I don't think have the same skillset as ours.
Give him a crack - good defence coaching can lead to good attack coaching
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2022:
@duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
from the nzh article posted earlier:
It is thought his role will likely see him help head coach Ian Foster analyse opposition sides and develop strategic plans to help the All Blacks build the tactical blueprints they will need to succeed against teams who stylistically present a different challenge to the ruck and run rugby preferred throughout Australasia.sounds like a attack coach
Ireland's attack wasn't exactly great under Schmidt.
good enough to beat us a couple of times, with players I don't think have the same skillset as ours.
Give him a crack - good defence coaching can lead to good attack coaching
We go too wide too fast. We lack structure. I think Schmidt knows a little bit about that
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
Could this be a move by NZR to have Schmidt take over post WC? Schmidt and the Messiah might be an interesting combo.
i was wonder if it was a way to have other options in a string position to step in, anyone coming in from the outside is going to have a hard time the closer we get to the RWC....but a selector stepping in to help with the team he helped select?
this whole "the world cup takes 4 years to win" thing is absolute bullshit.
I am firmly of the belief that you could make significant changes in the year of and win the thing. It might suit you better because then the Eddie Jones' of the world do not have 4 years to plan for your plan.
The only one i can think of that appears to be a planned out campaign was England
You can be shit during the World Cup year and make the final, there is ample evidence of that
My gut feel is we still allow ourselves to believe it in NZ because it was tied to our "are we ever going to win this fucking thing?" malaise, and it is a nice way for AB coaches to manage expectations.
Agreed - the beaten finalist in basically every cup since '99 has managed to put it together in the knockout phase after being pretty average in the lead up. The exception being 2019, where that team actually ended up winning the tournament.
All you can and really should be trying to do in the 3 years before the RWC is to build combinations and depth in key positions.
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2022:
@duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
from the nzh article posted earlier:
It is thought his role will likely see him help head coach Ian Foster analyse opposition sides and develop strategic plans to help the All Blacks build the tactical blueprints they will need to succeed against teams who stylistically present a different challenge to the ruck and run rugby preferred throughout Australasia.sounds like a attack coach
So from that paragraph I can deduce that they (NZRFU) have realised that Foster needs help in what are probably his core responsibilities i.e analysing oppositions and developing plans and tactics
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life you can do...yes, of course, as you say there is precedence, but it strikes me as harder than a more planned approach where you can try different things, change whats gone wrong
If you get the job the year of and dont have the depth in a particular position you don't have the time to grow that depth and so if you have to come up with a different game plan to compensate for it you might not have time to completely entrench this new game plan
and in fairness, i didn't say anything about 4 years, we're only 2 years now and fozzie is unlikely to go before the RC next year so we're already close to anyone new only having just over a year to do whatever they want
so yes, you can, no need to give up....but i think its harder
We did it in 2011. Given the injuries and what have you, the last 3 weeks of that tournament bore no resemblance to the previous 4 years. But, we had combinations, experience and depth in key positions in the pack and in midfield, which meant that the hastily cobbled together injury imposed game plan could be picked up and implemented fairly quickly.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
Could this be a move by NZR to have Schmidt take over post WC? Schmidt and the Messiah might be an interesting combo.
i was wonder if it was a way to have other options in a string position to step in, anyone coming in from the outside is going to have a hard time the closer we get to the RWC....but a selector stepping in to help with the team he helped select?
this whole "the world cup takes 4 years to win" thing is absolute bullshit.
I am firmly of the belief that you could make significant changes in the year of and win the thing. It might suit you better because then the Eddie Jones' of the world do not have 4 years to plan for your plan.
The only one i can think of that appears to be a planned out campaign was England
You can be shit during the World Cup year and make the final, there is ample evidence of that
My gut feel is we still allow ourselves to believe it in NZ because it was tied to our "are we ever going to win this fucking thing?" malaise, and it is a nice way for AB coaches to manage expectations.
Testify!!!
I reckon that's dead right! If we switched Fozzie for Razor 8 months out from the RWC and
Razor is the gun we hope for, then I think it would have no bearing at all on his likelihood of success.The only caveat is if the newly appointed coach turns out to be out of his depth, suddenly we've got a shitshow of 2003 proportions - which of course was not too much worse than what happened either side.
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2022:
Schmidt will be able to keep close tabs on the progress of RTS
Radio Télévision Suisse. It’s where I get my news anyway. They do a great drive home show too. Admittedly there is never any rugby coverage.
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@hooroo said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
Could this be a move by NZR to have Schmidt take over post WC? Schmidt and the Messiah might be an interesting combo.
i was wonder if it was a way to have other options in a string position to step in, anyone coming in from the outside is going to have a hard time the closer we get to the RWC....but a selector stepping in to help with the team he helped select?
this whole "the world cup takes 4 years to win" thing is absolute bullshit.
I am firmly of the belief that you could make significant changes in the year of and win the thing. It might suit you better because then the Eddie Jones' of the world do not have 4 years to plan for your plan.
The only one i can think of that appears to be a planned out campaign was England
You can be shit during the World Cup year and make the final, there is ample evidence of that
My gut feel is we still allow ourselves to believe it in NZ because it was tied to our "are we ever going to win this fucking thing?" malaise, and it is a nice way for AB coaches to manage expectations.
South Africa last world cup are case and point.
They sucked 12 months before the start of the world cup year and then bosh! Another World Cup.
(I think)
You did that to piss me off eh?
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@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:
The only caveat is if the newly appointed coach turns out to be out of his depth, suddenly we've got a shitshow of 2003 proportions - which of course was not too much worse than what happened either side.
I mean the issues that caused the 2003 loss probably could have been solved in an afternoon (or with a half decent TMO). Things weren't so off course that they were going to be difficult to salvage like in 1991 or 2019.
If anything a window less than two years would help paper any cracks that would develop over a four year cycle. Henry, Gatland, Smith, Cheika, McKenzie, Hansen, Deans, Mitchell, Jones, Hart all either didn't last a full four years in their first international gig or were dead man walking at the four year mark with most having some spectacular highs in the first two years. Obviously to many of our southern brethren it is insulting to compare Razor to these types of coaches, but it is possible he could go down this path much like his stint as U20s coach which ended in failing to progress from the pool stage in 2016.
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@hooroo said in All Blacks 2022:
South Africa last world cup are case and point.
They sucked 12 months before the start of the world cup year and then bosh! Another World Cup.
(I think)
Two things though. The draw matters a lot here. Even a "very good" side can't seem to take the best shot of three top 5 teams in consecutive weeks. You need help either from the draw, a controversial decision or another team turning up spent playing their final a week before to make it through. So it's easier to navigate the tournament if you have a Japan or Fiji as your QF opponent, or even Argentina in 2011 after Carter went down.
The other thing is it is a lot easier to play above yourself if you resign yourself to the limitations of the side and focusing a narrow range of tactics which give you the best chance of victory on the day. It is hard to see an AB side doing this, unless maybe tipped over in the pool stages or in a major injury crisis in a key position like 2011.
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@rotated said in All Blacks 2022:
@hooroo said in All Blacks 2022:
South Africa last world cup are case and point.
They sucked 12 months before the start of the world cup year and then bosh! Another World Cup.
(I think)
Two things though. The draw matters a lot here. Even a "very good" side can't seem to take the best shot of three top 5 teams in consecutive weeks. You need help either from the draw, a controversial decision or another team turning up spent playing their final a week before to make it through. So it's easier to navigate the tournament if you have a Japan or Fiji as your QF opponent, or even Argentina in 2011 after Carter went down.
The other thing is it is a lot easier to play above yourself if you resign yourself to the limitations of the side and focusing a narrow range of tactics which give you the best chance of victory on the day. It is hard to see an AB side doing this, unless maybe tipped over in the pool stages or in a major injury crisis in a key position like 2011.
Such a good point - our 2007 and 2019 RWC campaigns could have been so different had there not been big upsets during pool play.
Now, in 2019, we may very well have been beaten by England in a semi given their performance and the many issues with our 2019 side. But it would not have been because we put so much effort and attention into beating a "nemesis" in the QF
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@junior said in All Blacks 2022:
Such a good point - our 2007 and 2019 RWC campaigns could have been so different had there not been big upsets during pool play.
Hell, every RWC the draw matters.
You see the path the eventual winners take, and it is so variable. SA 2007 got Fiji Argentina England to win. England had Aus France SA. They just aren't comparable challenges.
You cna't control it, but it has an influence. England would have had to beat Aus NZ SA in 2019 -- so it's swings and roundabouts.
Somehow, though, the draw hasn't favoured the ABs yet. Hopefully 2023 eh
