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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
So Barry Soper just repeated what Bridges reportedly said. It wasn't even said to the MP in question, she just overheard it.
Bridges was talking about him and his wife trying for a daughter and made a joke about have to girl you have to go a little more shallow.
FFS, a mildly off colour joke she overheard.
thank you I wondered what it was. Seems pretty steep to dismiss Bridges for that but my reading is the real problem was not involving the Shadow Cabinet in the decision? This doesn't just look bad for Collins but also for National. I hope they can bounce back and a good start to have an interim leader for breathing space.
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@nostrildamus said in NZ Politics:
@smudge said in NZ Politics:
@tim Considering the Herald is now reporting that the slighted MP, Jacqui Dean, complained about it at the time five years ago and Bridges was spoken to by then-leader Bill English, then abso-fucking-lutely.
Jacqui is in the Class of 2005 alongside Judith and is very much a Collins fan.
I predict this will simply hasten the demise of Collins, and it will backfire badly on her.
your post aged well. I don't often get to say that in TSF (about posts in general, I hasten to add).
I have a few spies who feed me well on the National Party politics front. Although most of us didn't have a clue how today was going to pan out.
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did someone feed Judith some shitty intel or has someone set her up?
How did she not see this playing out poorly for her? She doesnt seem that daft to do something which carried such a high risk of blow back??
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@taniwharugby
new she was toast and wanted to take bridges as well? -
...
Even if the serious tenor of her allegations could be credibly sustained, by bypassing caucus and mis-characterising the position of the National Party board, Collins destroyed any lingering trust, confidence, and finally, fear, that her MPs had.If her political kamikaze job succeeds in torpedoing Bridges’ chances, it will be one last entry on her list of confirmed kills as leader, a list that is almost farcically lopsided in favour of dispatching her own MPs rather than government ministers.
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@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
did someone feed Judith some shitty intel or has someone set her up?
How did she not see this playing out poorly for her? She doesnt seem that daft to do something which carried such a high risk of blow back??
The answer is her judgement or political instincts are basically pretty shit. Good to see the back of her. But....I hope the next leader is better.
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As I said I can't comment on NZ politics, but have a look at the 100% government funded, 100% government controlled UK National Health Service and see how well that has turned out. You end up with patients drinking dirty water out of flower vases to stay alive (yes, really)
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)60264-0/fulltext
Just saying be very, very, careful of what you wish for.
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@frank said in NZ Politics:
@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
did someone feed Judith some shitty intel or has someone set her up?
How did she not see this playing out poorly for her? She doesnt seem that daft to do something which carried such a high risk of blow back??
The answer is her judgement or political instincts are basically pretty shit. Good to see the back of her. But....I hope the next leader is better.
All of the senior MPs of the Key/English era are either gone or have been on the outer. The Nats have a serious talent vacuum right now
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Judging by this article, it looks like Dean brought this up with JC some weeks back, but she clearly sat on it and then rolled it out late at night as if it were an urgent matter. It also looks like she lied when she said that she had the unanimous backing of the board.
I feel a bit sorry for Jacqui Dean. If what she says is true, then she only brought it up as an example of how the Nats needed to have some robust policies in place, yet JC has thrown her squarely under the bus in using it for her own ends.
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What a debacle. It's not healthy for what is effectively a two party system to have one of those parties such a rabble. Every single valid criticism of Labour can effectively be parried with 'yeah, but that fucking mess over there is the alternative'.
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@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
What a debacle. It's not healthy for what is effectively a two party system to have one of those parties such a rabble. Every single valid criticism of Labour can effectively be parried with 'yeah, but that fucking mess over there is the alternative'.
National are in exactly the same state Labour where in when they rolled Cunliffe, Little and then rolled the dice on Taxinda.
Similar place in the polls too.
So it can be turned around quickly.
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Collins actions on Wednesday night remind me of Muldoon's snap election.
I wonder if she was similarly pissed. It's the only credible explanation for such a monumentally stupid decision.
I thought at the time it would likely blow up in her face - and that was before I learned how lame the alleged offence really was.
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fuck the state of our media, the shitty interviewer, seriously where do they get thier credentials? This chick has history with this style with talking over, continuously asking questions over and over
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@dogmeat said in NZ Politics:
Collins actions on Wednesday night remind me of Muldoon's snap election.
I wonder if she was similarly pissed. It's the only credible explanation for such a monumentally stupid decision.
I thought at the time it would likely blow up in her face - and that was before I learned how lame the alleged offence really was.
Doubt she was drunk, the scenerio outlined above is that Bridges came to her saying he had the numbers and she reacted by saying she would destroy his career (apparantly throwing a friend under the bus as well).
Vindictive, selfish, and she got what she deserved.
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@jc said in NZ Politics:
@donsteppa Ben Thomas apparently doesn’t know the difference between intolerable and untenable. Otherwise he’s right.
His first paragraph in the article says her leadership moved from untenable to intolerable, so rightly or wrongly, it was intentional.
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
What a debacle. It's not healthy for what is effectively a two party system to have one of those parties such a rabble. Every single valid criticism of Labour can effectively be parried with 'yeah, but that fucking mess over there is the alternative'.
National are in exactly the same state Labour where in when they rolled Cunliffe, Little and then rolled the dice on Taxinda.
Similar place in the polls too.
So it can be turned around quickly.
This is worse than Labour's efforts in opposition (which were terrible at points), and also more like Labour 2011-14 than Labour in the other terms of the National government, although there are certainly parallels. 2008 after Clark they chose Goff who duly lost in 2011 and resigned, and while he was never likely to win against Key, caucus and the party were behind him as leader at least. To me, there are similarities to English and Bridges as experienced MPs and former ministers.
2011-14 was Shearer who was a good bloke by all accounts but got parachuted in too early in his career and lost caucus after his inexperience showed and polls started dropping, and Cunliffe who was very popular with the party faithful but not popular at all with caucus or the voters, so the election ended with a record low Labour vote and a caucus in shambles. To me, there are similarities to Muller and Collins respectively although Cunliffe's exit was less damaging.
2017-20 was obviously Little who had the full confidence of the party members and caucus and did a lot of work to pull everyone back onto the same page. Then as the election loomed and Labour's support cratered, Little stepped aside for Ardern who did enough to get into a place where Labour were in a position to form a government and then managed to actually form it. Can't compare the current National issues to Little and Ardern, they haven't reached that point yet, but it suggests to me that, 2 years out still, they would be better to choose a leader who can spend the next 18 months getting caucus unity and getting the hits on the current government (no shortage of opportunities although as with Key, the voters may not listen), and then switch leaders to someone more electable much closer to the election if polling dictates that.
It's not like it's an unachievable task, current polls suggest 50-42 or so for L+G vs N+A, so National and Act just need to pull back 5%. That's obviously not a small amount, but it's not insurmountable either.
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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
What a debacle. It's not healthy for what is effectively a two party system to have one of those parties such a rabble. Every single valid criticism of Labour can effectively be parried with 'yeah, but that fucking mess over there is the alternative'.
National are in exactly the same state Labour where in when they rolled Cunliffe, Little and then rolled the dice on Taxinda.
Similar place in the polls too.
So it can be turned around quickly.
They need someone to capture the imagination of the voting public though. And right now they don't appear to have it
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@mikedogz that would really be a strong indicator of someone putting the party (and NZ!) ahead of personal ambition. Hold the 'interim' leadership role with someone in the leadership group that would come forward just in time for the campaign cycle, but without the bloodshed and back stabbing. Wow, that'd be a change... and a pipedream!!
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