All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@tewaio said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I don't mind our attack, as its clear when we play direct up the guts forward play before spinning it wide, we do well. You know, the sort of thing that has worked in test rugby for over 100 years. That, and not kicking it away aimlessly. Simple stuff.
What has consistently annoyed me since about 2016 is our defence. Every good team in the world, especially those that beat us, employs a rush defence. They kill our time and space. We let teams run at us and gain easy meters. When I watch the ABs defend, I wish that the opposition would defend like that when we had the ball, as we'd carve them up.
We have a fixation that we can still attack best off turnover ball so our defence tries to suck runners into isolating themselves with the rest of their players out of a defensible pattern.
It simply doesn't pay off as teams are smarter now and will take a tackle then drive until support arrives and a recycle can happen.
The only time we see this ploy work now is if the opposition is chasing the game and not patient.It feels like a lot of what we do is built around what we get results from playing Australia , because we play them so often it becomes habitual
The last time we crushed a good side in the forwards might be Ireland in the 2019 QF? It's not like we shouldn't have it in us, we just aren't playing right
We were pretty good vs SA in the pools too
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Watching a replay now, and during the first 25 minutes you would have to say that we played OK.
So, until 27:00 on the game clock (current status), there were two contestables that didn't look like a good idea, but generally speaking we've been seeking to use space around the ruck them attack wide and have been doing quite well with one great break that nearly led to a try (some Jordan magic here was very useful).
Bridge has been good, but his lack of size and , just poor luck, sees him dropping the cross kick from Jordie and getting taken into touch when we were hot of attack. I can't help but think that Jordan (or in the past, Jane) would catch those, not because they are more highly skilled, but just because they have that edge at that level that sees them make those plays.
From the ensuing lineout, Whitelock was very unlucky to be penalized and the French have done well to get territory and try to turn that into points. That leads us to the things which are letting us down:
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Skill execution under pressure. It's like having first season Jordie Barrett back. He has had two terrible kicks, both of which have led to French points. I have to call out our maul defense as well, as the French see something there to exploit, and have done so well.
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Keep the ball in front of the forwards. Smith, Mo'unga, and Barrett looked like they have just met, they are constantly changing the attack from one side of the ruck to the other and losing us ground, so the cleaners have to track back (or across) due to their indecision.
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Our attack is too predictable. You see the defender just blitz past the pod forward when we set up our attack structure. There are no bodies in motion and it's obvious that the playmaker drifting across will get the ball (and therefore defender) at the same time. We don't have any runners who could hold the defense and seem to want to stretch them then go as wide as possible. It's ugly to watch.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Some interesting stats
Ball out of play 55 minutes, no wonder some people say Rugby is boring lol.
Penalties conceded on attack is a killer there and turnovers won is low. NZ still more efficient when given the opportunities. Key question for Foster et al to resolve is how to generate more opportunities.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Watching a replay now, and during the first 25 minutes you would have to say that we played OK.
So, until 27:00 on the game clock (current status), there were two contestables that didn't look like a good idea, but generally speaking we've been seeking to use space around the ruck them attack wide and have been doing quite well with one great break that nearly led to a try (some Jordan magic here was very useful).
Bridge has been good, but his lack of size and , just poor luck, sees him dropping the cross kick from Jordie and getting taken into touch when we were hot of attack. I can't help but think that Jordan (or in the past, Jane) would catch those, not because they are more highly skilled, but just because they have that edge at that level that sees them make those plays.
From the ensuing lineout, Whitelock was very unlucky to be penalized and the French have done well to get territory and try to turn that into points. That leads us to the things which are letting us down:
-
Skill execution under pressure. It's like having first season Jordie Barrett back. He has had two terrible kicks, both of which have led to French points. I have to call out our maul defense as well, as the French see something there to exploit, and have done so well.
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Keep the ball in front of the forwards. Smith, Mo'unga, and Barrett looked like they have just met, they are constantly changing the attack from one side of the ruck to the other and losing us ground, so the cleaners have to track back (or across) due to their indecision.
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Our attack is too predictable. You see the defender just blitz past the pod forward when we set up our attack structure. There are no bodies in motion and it's obvious that the playmaker drifting across will get the ball (and therefore defender) at the same time. We don't have any runners who could hold the defense and seem to want to stretch them then go as wide as possible. It's ugly to watch.
You'd normally expect the AB maul defence to hold up. They certainly did when they faced the Boks earlier in the year. So it's not like it is a glaring weak area. The bigger issue is that they kept on giving the French penalties that allowed them to kick deep into NZ territory or their exit kicks were poor (Jordie Barrett's one led directly to the first French try). Small things, but it suggests a lack of concentration.
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So, through until the half-time break, and one of the first things that jumps out again is how errors from certain players have seemed to stack up recently - once someone is having a bad day, it seems to continue to be a bad day. Jordie losing it in the tackle in the 29th sums this up and again it puts us under huge amounts of pressure thanks to a fantastic kick by the the French.
Shout out to Mo'unga for a cracking catch in the 32nd minute, but what was with the pop-gun kick to get us 15 extra metres when we needed 40? You almost on the edge of the 22, but we get a line out with their throw on our side of the half off a free kick?
After a bit of back and forth, we go to exit and Laulala just drops it cold. Fuck me. It is a bit high, but he should catch that. And, now the french have free territory again and we have no numbers. This is really worrying as they have plenty and we end up conceding a penalty.
Result: Another line-out, and we don't send someone up, but it doesn't matter. They take it, wheel to the right, and peel off to score. I think I saw a comment above about how our maul defence is good, but I think they should watch that sequence. We look like the Blues from a couple of years ago when you just knew that we were going to concede.
24-6 now and we are in big trouble.
This kickoff just shows shit luck, we tap it back, Ardie knocks it on and they kick through to put us back under heaps of pressure, 5 metres out. Smith exits to the 35 and we are back under it but BBBR wins against the throw and we get clear with a nice break (which we fuck up due to inadequate cleaning).
Relieving penalty, we go upfield, go straight at them and earn another penalty for them being offside (why aren't we learning that this is the way to get upfield?) but once we have them on the backfoot we run out of ideas. It is just one on one, no bodies in motion, just asking them to make tackles. We kick for the corner, win the lineout and Coles tries a speculator which BBBR can't handle.
Some patience there and we might have made it through our forwards, but one thing is clear - unless our backs have a mismatch, they aren't scoring tries. They look like a HS team with the way they line up and attack. There is no structure, just go wide and hope to catch them out on the edge.
That's the half and I'm too depressed to watch more.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
So, through until the half-time break, and one of the first things that jumps out again is how errors from certain players have seemed to stack up recently - once someone is having a bad day, it seems to continue to be a bad day. Jordie losing it in the tackle in the 29th sums this up and again it puts us under huge amounts of pressure thanks to a fantastic kick by the the French.
Shout out to Mo'unga for a cracking catch in the 32nd minute, but what was with the pop-gun kick to get us 15 extra metres when we needed 40? You almost on the edge of the 22, but we get a line out with their throw on our side of the half off a free kick?
After a bit of back and forth, we go to exit and Laulala just drops it cold. Fuck me. It is a bit high, but he should catch that. And, now the french have free territory again and we have no numbers. This is really worrying as they have plenty and we end up conceded a penalty.
Result: Another line-out, and we don't send someone up, but it doesn't matter. They take it, wheel to the right, and peel off to score.
I think I saw a comment above about how our maul defence is good, but I think they should watch that sequence. We look like the Blues from a couple of of years ago when you just that they were going to concede.
24-6 now and we are in big trouble.
This kickoff just shows shit luck, we tap it back, Ardie knocks it on and they kick through to put us back under heaps of pressure, 5 metres out. Smith exits to the 35 and we are back under it but BBBR wins against the throw and we get clear with a nice break (which we fuck up due to inadequate cleaning).
Relieving penalty, we go upfield, go straight at them and earn another penalty for them being offside (why aren't we learning that this is the way to get upfield?) but once we have them on the backfoot we run out of ideas. It is just one on one, no bodies in motion, just asking them to make tackles. We kick for the corner, win the lineout and Coles tries a speculator which BBBR can't handle.
Some patience there and we might have made it through our forwards, but one thing is clear - unless our backs have a mismatch, they aren't scoring tries. They look like a HS team with the way they line up and attack. There is no structure, just go wide and hope to catch them out on the edge.
That's the half and I'm too depressed to watch more.
You've started, so you have to finish
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
So, through until the half-time break, and one of the first things that jumps out again is how errors from certain players have seemed to stack up recently - once someone is having a bad day, it seems to continue to be a bad day. Jordie losing it in the tackle in the 29th sums this up and again it puts us under huge amounts of pressure thanks to a fantastic kick by the the French.
Shout out to Mo'unga for a cracking catch in the 32nd minute, but what was with the pop-gun kick to get us 15 extra metres when we needed 40? You almost on the edge of the 22, but we get a line out with their throw on our side of the half off a free kick?
After a bit of back and forth, we go to exit and Laulala just drops it cold. Fuck me. It is a bit high, but he should catch that. And, now the french have free territory again and we have no numbers. This is really worrying as they have plenty and we end up conceded a penalty.
Result: Another line-out, and we don't send someone up, but it doesn't matter. They take it, wheel to the right, and peel off to score.
I think I saw a comment above about how our maul defence is good, but I think they should watch that sequence. We look like the Blues from a couple of of years ago when you just that they were going to concede.
24-6 now and we are in big trouble.
This kickoff just shows shit luck, we tap it back, Ardie knocks it on and they kick through to put us back under heaps of pressure, 5 metres out. Smith exits to the 35 and we are back under it but BBBR wins against the throw and we get clear with a nice break (which we fuck up due to inadequate cleaning).
Relieving penalty, we go upfield, go straight at them and earn another penalty for them being offside (why aren't we learning that this is the way to get upfield?) but once we have them on the backfoot we run out of ideas. It is just one on one, no bodies in motion, just asking them to make tackles. We kick for the corner, win the lineout and Coles tries a speculator which BBBR can't handle.
Some patience there and we might have made it through our forwards, but one thing is clear - unless our backs have a mismatch, they aren't scoring tries. They look like a HS team with the way they line up and attack. There is no structure, just go wide and hope to catch them out on the edge.
That's the half and I'm too depressed to watch more.
It was my quote above about the maul defence being good overall this season. It worked just fine in the RC. Maybe the NH teams saw something that Oz and SA were unable to exploit? Or maybe the energy levels were insufficient to counter a strong NH maul?
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@reprobate The problem is no clarity. The team has no plan. All players should know a plan and follow it.
Its chaotic. Its leading to stress and mistakes. The onus is fair and square on the coach. Great leaders break down even complex problems and provide straight forward steps for people to follow.
We have been relying on BB, Will Jordan brilliance to get us on the scoreboard.
Things aren't going to change with the current setup. Where's Razor -
@berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@reprobate The problem is no clarity. The team has no plan. All players should know a plan and follow it.
Its chaotic. Its leading to stress and mistakes. The onus is fair and square on the coach. Great leaders break down even complex problems and provide straight forward steps for people to follow.
We have been relying on BB, Will Jordan brilliance to get us on the scoreboard.
Things aren't going to change with the current setup. Where's RazorIsn't this the natural end of the evolution of the player led environment? The coaches role becomes one of providing the fun, positive environment for exceptional athletes to do what they do without direction, to play what they see...
... only, exceptional athletes require structure to work within and express their talent. Relying on instinct becomes haphazard.
So maybe there is a tactical plan, but it isn't firm enough, which is confusing some of the players, which means they are over thinking and not executing/making mistakes.
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On the Foster shambles, this is the best quote I’ve seen:
“When the All Blacks’ coach starts sounding like the head of human resources, you know we have a problem.”
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it isnt a myth, we have, and will continue to struggle with the rush because we have failed to play simple rugby, which as pointed out has been the most effective against it., if ever the cliche that you need to earn the right to go wide were apt, it is with the way we havent played the past few seasons.
I maintain we have the right cattle, sure a few tweaks here and there will make it better, but our game plan, execution and skills have not been upto it, I think the latter is a symptom of the other parts and drop in confidence levels.
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Squidge " Ian Foster's ABs attack is bad...No is worse than that...it's average, it is the attack of an unambitious mid table club side being executed by players so individually talented, some times they score despite the system, rather than because of it"
So true. We see, he sees it, media are even beginning to. NZR? Nah he rocks!
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@machpants Fuck that makes us look even worse, what are our analysts doing if this bloke can make it look so simple.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@machpants Fuck that makes us look even worse, what are our analysts doing if this bloke can make it look so simple.
It has been said here on the fern the attack is simpy fling it wide with such skill they can't keep up. Problem is Tier 1 side can keep up, it is a pathetic (and as Squidge says arrogant) way to run. So dumb so simple, works great against teams that don't have the individuals that better teams do. And Foster's conclusion is true 'we just have to execute the gameplan better and we'll win' - problem is the level required to acheive that is beyond human against a Tier 1 team firing on all cylinders. Makes me fucking RAAAAAAAAAAGE how shit the ABs coaching team is.
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@machpants do we honestly think Fozzie had a moment of brilliance at half time and came up with a gameplan....or the guys on the pitch just decided to go old school and keep it tight
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@machpants do we honestly think Fozzie had a moment of brilliance at half time and came up with a gameplan....or the guys on the pitch just decided to go old school and keep it tight
Give me option B
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@machpants exactly, i think that suggestion was pretty generous
