Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I don't buy into this, "we don't have the players" or "X is shite and Y is only good in SR" type comments. Without doubt, these are the best players we have at the moment (except the Northland ginger and a Ta$man center...in my opinion). They dominate the SR and/or have dominated the international scene for quite a while. You don't suddenly become shite overnight!
And we all on this board basically agreed that these were our best players until it all turned to custard!
It is obvious to me the problem. It is the stale, easy-to-predict approach we take into the games. This approach is also in a bizarre way self-destructing. The game has moved on but the NZ game has not. It is that simple. Foster I believe is not the person to lead us from the glut but if he hasn't seen the writing on the wall yet he never will. However, if he is still the coach next year, I will be hoping he can climb this mountain (which is in part his own making) and change the blueprint to give the ABs a chance in 2023.All good points.
It's true, we have nowhere near the talent we had in 2015 or the years preceding. We still have some talent though, and I would hazard a guess that many international coaches would absolutely love to have some of our loosies and backs in their squads.
But, we don't have a team good enough now to just show up, play at speed, move the ball around bit and win. And this is why coaching, selection and game plans matter. We were played off the park for 60 minutes last night and 80 minutes the week before. But we actually had chances to win both matches. A better coached and selected team would have won both matches when presented with those opportunities. Hell, a better coached and selected team would not have been solely reliant on those opportunities to win!
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@tewaio In 2004 Henry came in and said "we need a revolution in how we play, like after the 68 Lions tour". We changed our forward play and everything else. Since 2015, Hansen and his descendants have been so arrogant about playing like we own the ball and don't have to adjust. It's infuriating.
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It's also working with the SR coaches to get the experience in a position, identify deficiencies and work on them. The AB coach can only do so much and it's a joint effort. It seems to have worked with Akira - he's a way better player and that may have come about from Foster & McDonald working together.
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@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Things do seem to have built nicely at super level in the last couple of years (despite interrupted comp)
Built nicely by what measure? By playing themselves who all play nearly the same style?
That’s why I said ‘seemed to have built’.
The Super comp has been successful in building a false sense of well being
That was the benefit of playing the Saffa sides, the Aussie sides and the mix of others, it exposes NZ players and coaches to different styles and game plans.
It has held us in pretty good stead for quite a few years, but two years of basically playing local derbies and then playing the Aussies a thousand times, it has taken in my view taken a toll on our development
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@berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
The scary thing is there has been no improvement in performance over the last 2 years.
Goes back further than 2 year - 4 at least.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nevorian said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Things do seem to have built nicely at super level in the last couple of years (despite interrupted comp)
Built nicely by what measure? By playing themselves who all play nearly the same style?
That’s why I said ‘seemed to have built’.
The Super comp has been successful in building a false sense of well being
That was the benefit of playing the Saffa sides, the Aussie sides and the mix of others, it exposes NZ players and coaches to different styles and game plans.
It has held us in pretty good stead for quite a few years, but two years of basically playing local derbies and then playing the Aussies a thousand times, it has taken in my view taken a toll on our development
So without those different styles, where do the ABs get the experience from to be able to develop the players? Are the Junior ABs making a comeback?
Or will there be more onus on the SR coaches to develop their own playing styles so that the players can be challenged by the latest trends domestically?
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@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Who gets sacked first, Solskjær or Foster?
FYI Solskjær has just been given the sack. Praying they will pull the lever on the Muppet too.
And Man U have had 6 coaches in the last 7 years , including a messiah in Mourinho.
If sacking coaches was the easy answer to everything, Man U would have won everything in sight since 2014.
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@victor-meldrew
Not sacking underperforming coaches certainly isn't the answer either. -
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew
Not sacking underperforming coaches certainly isn't the answer either.Glad you agree sacking coaches isn't a quick fix.
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@victor-meldrew
Not a quick fix but a necessary one. Ole & Foz = jobs for the boys, no track record to back it up, wheels fell off, sacked and should be sacked. -
This post is deleted!
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@victor-meldrew Razor has cleaned up in the SR over a long period of time.
Obviously clear game plans, good man management and eye for detail.
You heard the oft repeated phrase 'Razor hasnt got international coaching experience'. This is rubbish.
Well now we've got mediocre results, losing to teams like never before, and the management have untold international experience. -
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew
Not a quick fix but a necessary one. Ole & Foz = jobs for the boys, no track record to back it up, wheels fell off, sacked and should be sacked.And like Man U, we say that about the next coach (like Mourhino, with a great track record), and the one after that, and the one after that?
How many years of coach blamings and sackings do you think we need before we start asking if there's underlying problems to be addressed?
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew
Not a quick fix but a necessary one. Ole & Foz = jobs for the boys, no track record to back it up, wheels fell off, sacked and should be sacked.And like Man U, we say that about the next coach (like Mourhino, with a great track record), and the one after that, and the one after that?
How many years of coach blamings and sackings do you think we need before we start asking if there's underlying problems to be addressed?
How is this situation like Man U? Foster has been in the AB set up for a decade.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew
Not a quick fix but a necessary one. Ole & Foz = jobs for the boys, no track record to back it up, wheels fell off, sacked and should be sacked.And like Man U, we say that about the next coach (like Mourhino, with a great track record), and the one after that, and the one after that?
How many years of coach blamings and sackings do you think we need before we start asking if there's underlying problems to be addressed?
Like the Taco advert, it doesn't have to be an either/or.
And the former seems more immediate and more possible. -
I say it again, Foster and Ole are both caretakers at best. Zero credentials to prove they can do it at the top level, direct connection to past success but in a very different capacity, and opposition teams are/were praying they stay in for as long as possible.
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@berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew Razor has cleaned up in the SR over a long period of time.
Obviously clear game plans, good man management and eye for detail.
You heard the oft repeated phrase 'hasnt got international coaching experience'. This is rubbish.
Well now we've got mediocre results, losing to teams like never before, and the management have untold international experience.So what do we do if and/or when when Razor, like Mourhino with his great track record, doesn't turn out to be a messiah?
If Razor's win % isn't better than Foster's after 2 years, do we think we should sack him as well?
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew
Not a quick fix but a necessary one. Ole & Foz = jobs for the boys, no track record to back it up, wheels fell off, sacked and should be sacked.And like Man U, we say that about the next coach (like Mourhino, with a great track record), and the one after that, and the one after that?
How many years of coach blamings and sackings do you think we need before we start asking if there's underlying problems to be addressed?
You make good points, but one thing I will say is that, because of the top-down nature of NZ rugby, the AB coach can often have a big say in the development at the lower levels of the game. Is it any coincidence that post-2004, we had a pipeline of good quality front rowers after GH had identified that as a work on? Or how after 2009, we had a generation of wingers and full backs who were all excellent under the high ball? It's because of the weaknesses in those areas identified by GH at the top level that coaches at all levels below that sought to develop the next generation that was strong in those areas.
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@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I say it again, Foster and Ole are both caretakers at best. Zero credentials to prove they can do it at the top level, direct connection to past success but in a very different capacity, and opposition teams are/were praying they stay in for as long as possible.
Caretakers look after things!
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@berniescorner said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew Razor has cleaned up in the SR over a long period of time.
Obviously clear game plans, good man management and eye for detail.
You heard the oft repeated phrase 'hasnt got international coaching experience'. This is rubbish.
Well now we've got mediocre results, losing to teams like never before, and the management have untold international experience.So what do we do if and/or when when Razor, like Mourhino with his great track record, doesn't turn out to be a messiah?
If Razor's win % isn't better than Foster's after 2 years, do we think we should sack him as well?
This sounds like the argument for not demoting Tana and replacing him with Leon.....
