All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
What have we learned from tonight?
- Our tight 5 is not what it once was, but if we play direct we can still compete
- Loose forwards as currently constructed are too loose
- Without Aaron Smith we are lost
- RM is not a test 10 we can depend on. Yet. Maybe not even
- The Havili experiment is a fail
- Tupaea and Ioane could be a go in MF. Clint certainly looks like he has the hard edge we gave lacked and could be the 12 we need to pair with
- Jordan has one wing spot locked down, and Jordie had a very good tour. That leaves one wing spot up for grabs
- Foster doesn't have it
Pick and go used to be a key strength of NZ forward play. Between 40 and 60 mins, NZ forwards used the pick and go to maximum effect.
The other observation I have is two-fold - applying pressure and penalties. The ABs are playing too much in the wrong part of the pitch. The tactical kicking game has been poor for a while. This doesn't apply pressure to the opposition. And when NZ do get down and play in the opposition third, they give away cheap penalties that again relieves pressure.
Since when did ABs kick bombs in MF so much?
Are they trying to create broken field opportunities and disorganise set defences? It seems a low risk play.
Rather put the ball in behind the defence and play for territory. Force France to win their lineout ball (ABs had some joy disrupting) or kick it away.
The French were waiting for it and made us pay. Like we used to do
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@machpants said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@number9 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Let's just be honest we were out muscled up front by the Irish and now the French. We lack mobility. Our props are saving themselves for the scrums and line outs and are non-existqnt around the paddock.
French and Irish tight 5 are active and mobile.
Yup. Battle lost up front
I reckon, like against Ireland the coaching team and moody would disagree
That there is the problem
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@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
All you Foster fans enjoy that BS more to come
Just because people don't think Jesus Robertson is the answer to everything, doesn't mean they're Foster fans. Get a fucking grip.
I don’t give a flying Fuck who get the job just not this lot of clowns,
So get a fucking grip .🤣 Ok but Robertson good
Mickey Mouse would be better than the clown circus.
Just Change the coaches anybody has to be better.Now we're talking. Opposing Robertson doesn't equal Foster fans. Having patience doesn't equal Foster fans.
I just want the ABs to win to be honest ,just get some coaches in who can turn this around,
I can’t handle 2 more years of this shit.Fucking eh
A Hammer Holland duo. You haven't seen bad yet
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@number9 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Let's just be honest we were out muscled up front by the Irish and now the French. We lack mobility. Our props are saving themselves for the scrums and line outs and are non-existqnt around the paddock.
French and Irish tight 5 are active and mobile.
Yup. Battle lost up front
I think the mobility thing is part of the problem. AB forwards are very mobile and athletic, but not powerful enough against other teams. Are you willing to sacrifice a bit of the former for some more of the latter?
ST had a great 30 mins. If Aumua could come to the table, ABs have got a seriously good 1-2 hooker punch.
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@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
All you Foster fans enjoy that BS more to come
Just because people don't think Jesus Robertson is the answer to everything, doesn't mean they're Foster fans. Get a fucking grip.
I don’t give a flying Fuck who get the job just not this lot of clowns,
So get a fucking grip .🤣 Ok but Robertson good
Mickey Mouse would be better than the clown circus.
Just Change the coaches anybody has to be better.Now we're talking. Opposing Robertson doesn't equal Foster fans. Having patience doesn't equal Foster fans.
I just want the ABs to win to be honest ,just get some coaches in who can turn this around,
I can’t handle 2 more years of this shit.Fucking eh
Stop it,that’s too far
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
We've been here before. I remember the pain of previous dips, this one is tough after a golden run like We've had. Gonna be hard for Blacks fans for a while
It'l be a slow process and require looking at what's going wrong across the board - and not thinking there's an easy solution or messiah coach which is going to recreate 2011-2015 in a few months.
There's a worrying lack of depth in key positions and we are going to have to get used to having players who aren't superstars or world-class but do a decent job and stay focussed until we develop talent at lower levels.
In many ways the writing has been on the wall since about 2016 and not just at AB level - it's pretty clear the head honchos have taken their eye off the ball in too any ways.
You need some good u20 vintages to come through and some bolters from NPC and SR.
2022 is last chance really to inject fresh blood unless they are a standout.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@number9 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Let's just be honest we were out muscled up front by the Irish and now the French. We lack mobility. Our props are saving themselves for the scrums and line outs and are non-existqnt around the paddock.
French and Irish tight 5 are active and mobile.
Yup. Battle lost up front
I think the mobility thing is part of the problem. AB forwards are very mobile and athletic, but not powerful enough against other teams. Are you willing to sacrifice a bit of the former for some more of the latter?
It's almost as if playing touch rugby in late summer doesn't create the type of athletes required for Test rugby in winter.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@number9 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Let's just be honest we were out muscled up front by the Irish and now the French. We lack mobility. Our props are saving themselves for the scrums and line outs and are non-existqnt around the paddock.
French and Irish tight 5 are active and mobile.
Yup. Battle lost up front
I think the mobility thing is part of the problem. AB forwards are very mobile and athletic, but not powerful enough against other teams. Are you willing to sacrifice a bit of the former for some more of the latter?
It's almost as if playing touch rugby in late summer doesn't create the type of athletes required for Test rugby in winter.
True
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
This is a combination of bad coaching, low period of talent and nz domestic style not preparing them for proper test rugby.
That just sounds like bad coaching all round
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I knew as soon as the Italy first half was over we were in trouble. I don’t remember seeing a dirt track team have less fun. That should have been a game where testing new combinations led to free flowing spectator friendly rugby. You can say Italy played their part as spoilers but I’d counter that by saying get fucked. It was fucking Italy! It highlighted a coaching teams inability to build. Foster and co seem like they want to maintain not innovate. Or more likely are scrambling to maintain and can not innovate.
There’s some flakey selections. I’ll start right at the top. Sam Cane was injured and had to pass the arm band on. However once your designated captain returns to the full test team against fucking France he remains out of the captaincy picture? For the record I prefer Whitelock. But that’s not the point. Cane was back. Telling the media that the coaching staff want to ease him in is hilarious. It’s fucking France, in France. There’s no easing in to that. You’re already there. What message does this send to the players? Especially a rag tag bunch like this. And it is. When your leadership, in the coaches box and on the field, is all over the shop. You are a rag tag bunch. You reap results like this. The message is “we are rudderless and we’ll see what happens”
Cheers Fozzy for helping a couple years ago but you need to get on your bike now.
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
This is a combination of bad coaching, low period of talent and nz domestic style not preparing them for proper test rugby.
I don't buy this low period talent thing.
Ignoring McCaw and Carter for a moment (who were special from the start), other legends from that vintage had their ups and downs. Nonu burst onto the scene, then was dropped to go work on his game. Conrad Smith was deemed to be too slight of frame. Mealamu couldn't throw. Kaino was a brilliant athlete but was inconsistent and would go missing in tight games.
It took time for them to become the players they did. There are players with similar talents now. It requires clear coaching. Which is where things don't seem to be great.
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@raznomore said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I knew as soon as the Italy first half was over we were in trouble. I don’t remember seeing a dirt track team have less fun. That should have been a game where testing new combinations led to free flowing spectator friendly rugby. You can say Italy played their part as spoilers but I’d counter that by saying get fucked. It was fucking Italy! It highlighted a coaching teams inability to build. Foster and co seem like they want to maintain not innovate. Or more likely are scrambling to maintain and can not innovate.
There’s some flakey selections. I’ll start right at the top. Sam Cane was injured and had to pass the arm band on. However once your designated captain returns to the full test team against fucking France he remains out of the captaincy picture? For the record I prefer Whitelock. But that’s not the point. Cane was back. Telling the media that the coaching staff want to ease him in is hilarious. It’s fucking France, in France. There’s no easing in to that. You’re already there. What message does this send to the players? Especially a rag tag bunch like this. And it is. When your leadership, in the coaches box and on the field, is all over the shop. You are a rag tag bunch. You reap results like this. The message is “we are rudderless and we’ll see what happens”
Cheers Fozzy for helping a couple years ago but you need to get on your bike now.
There are far too many similarities to Foster's head coaching stint at Chiefs to just be coincidence.
Teams capable of brilliance, but erratic. Lots of individualism, but struggle when playing super organised opponents.
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I'll be interested to see what NZRU do.
The current drop in standards may begin to have a commercial impact on NZ rugby. Sponsors only want to pay top dollar for the best teams. If NZRU feel revenues are at risk, Foster will come even more under the spotlight.
Next year's series against Ireland is now critical. If ABs lose it, he'll be gone. He won't survive it.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
it may surprise all on here but I am not a fan of our coaching tactics. But I don't think we should get personally nasty.
I still think our players are better than the way they played this season or the results, but we don't have the players of yore and the competition has got better. We just have to live with it and probably another poor 2 years.The really frustrating thing is that in parts tonite - 40-60 mins - they were great. But once things started to go wrong, so many players seemed to fall apart and they weren't the newer players either.
Discipline when they have momentum with them is really fragile which makes me wonder if there's a team mentality issue.
My sense is that the players are mentally stale. Quite a few games. Being in bubble. Vibe of the set up. Players coming and going.
Trying to rouse themselves (which they did) when running on fumes.
Contrast the Boks who seem pretty focussed and hungry, still.
Difficult season with Covid restrictions but not a good reflection on management.
Yeah - remember when Henry said it's hard to play well in tests for three weeks in a row. These guys have had two sets of five on this tour. Jordie, who was previously excellent, I think probably symptomatic that the gas in the tank is largely burned up.
I'm not really going to bag Foster for his selections, because I don't think he's got too many wrong. This week I think he saw the necessity of hitting the refresh button and most of his changes were relatively good. Coles and Samisoni for Taylor. Cane at 7. Smith at 9. Tupaea at 12. Akira and Bridge went well enough.
Little Richie had a bit of a shocker, especially in the second half where things got progressively worse for him. Poor old Dave Havili - when your luck's not in... I need to have another look, but I suspect the French wing made a 14 point play. We looked to have plenty of firepower to the left if Havili can make a fast transfer.
Sliding doors moment - Jordan's calf muscle - we still had his obligatory try up our sleeves when he hobbled off.
Bigger one was the kick-chase that ended in Ardie going to the bin.On the plus side, we've got Scott Barrett, Tuipolotu, Blackadder, Papalií, Jacobson, Sotutu, Fakatava (probably), Beauden, ALB, Goodhue, and Clarke all in the wings to potentially play roles in the top team next year.
Fozzie's not going to get sacked for the fade at the end of a tough tour. I doubt he and his team are the guys to win us a RWC - or give us our best chance - but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.
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Why sub Aaron after 60? You need him there to close the game, so if he can't go 80 then he shouldn't be there, not often in a big game he is subbed so early.
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@number9 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
The tight 5 are slow and mobile and lack fitness.
How the hell did Sam Cane get the nod???? Plays 1 game for King Country and he is in. Pathetic!
He came off the bench vs USA and played 80 minutes vs Italy. I thought he went pretty well.
