All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
Much like Franks before him, I tend to query just how good a scrummager he is. Does he never, ever, ever get penalised or FK'd? Does he absolutely dominate, or is he just mostly reliable on our own ball, but like Franks, prone to giving away the occasional penalty? Because that just doesn't cut it for me - I'll take an extra 1 or 2 penalties at scrumtime for someone who can actually hurt the opposition in every other aspect of play (ball in hand, distribution, tackling, lineouts, rucks, mauls....).
I never played prop, but my take is that Nepo and Owen are very correct technically in that they push straight and square, and transmit the power behind them very effectively. In the first 40 that seems highly desirable, against the staring oppo front row, who will be fresh.
There are attacking THs, perhaps like Meeuws, but that seems often to involve angling in some way, and can be very badly exposed by a top LH, such as Woody did to Kees. It seems LHs can more safely attack, and historically Joe (and Karl) are very good at that.
One thing we can agree on is that if TH gets muntered the scrum can become a huge problem.
Perhaps take a leak out of Bok playbook and play THs 40 minutes each? -
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I never played prop, but my take is that Nepo and Owen are very correct technically in that they push straight and square, and transmit the power behind them very effectively. In the first 40 that seems highly desirable, against the staring oppo front row, who will be fresh.
Sure, but he still gets penalised at scrum time, so I'm just not sure what we're actually seeing? If he was amazing and 100% reliable then ok, I can kind of understand it - but what's the cost for the other 95% of the game? If he's giving away pens on defence, missing tackles, dropping the pill (TJ doesn't help), throwing shitty passes, then I just can't see how the trade off is of any value, even more so when he's not 100% reliable at scrum time, it seems quite absurd.
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@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bayimports said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman that's stupid...ill be asleep by then.
Calling @bayimports ?
unfortunately that mate took a different role, so no more hot sauce
Sorry to hear you guys split up.
i didnt say we split up, just a different role, Im now on top..
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
I do hear you. Nepo isn't a naturally coordinated type of fellow. That said, I thought he did well against Wales. Time in squad would suggest they are clear he's the man scrum time. I suspect he's also a pretty good lifter.
Need Joe to step up on looser stuff. Still remember him throwing behind back offload against French in 2015! -
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I never played prop, but my take is that Nepo and Owen are very correct technically in that they push straight and square, and transmit the power behind them very effectively. In the first 40 that seems highly desirable, against the staring oppo front row, who will be fresh.
Sure, but he still gets penalised at scrum time, so I'm just not sure what we're actually seeing? If he was amazing and 100% reliable then ok, I can kind of understand it - but what's the cost for the other 95% of the game? If he's giving away pens on defence, missing tackles, dropping the pill (TJ doesn't help), throwing shitty passes, then I just can't see how the trade off is of any value, even more so when he's not 100% reliable at scrum time, it seems quite absurd.
It may be the refs who aren't 100% reliable at scrum time.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Pakman team:
Joe/Coles/Nepo/BBBR/Whitelock/Cane(if 100%)/Paps/Akira/Nugget/Ritchie/Quinn/Reece/Rieko/Jordan/Jordie
Bench: Karl/Samsoni/Lomax/Vaa'i/Ardie/Weber/DMac/Havili
If Cane not 100%, Paps to 7 and Sotutu at 8.
Is Jacobson available? He doesn't seem to have as much impact against the top sides IMHO as earlier in the season? And although he seemed to do well at 6, and initially at 8, seems a bit quiet to me in more recent games, but perhaps he was working in tight hence I saw less of him..
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
I do hear you. Nepo isn't a naturally coordinated type of fellow. That said, I thought he did well against Wales. Time in squad would suggest they are clear he's the man scrum time. I suspect he's also a pretty good lifter.
Need Joe to step up on looser stuff. Still remember him throwing behind back offload against French in 2015!I might be imagining it, but I seem to recall when Laulala started out at the Crusaders, he was a mobile prop with good loose skills? He's not on his own, but the all round handling in the team has taken a complete nose dive this season - whether that is stemming from the terrible service from halfback, or just lack of appropriate training I can't be sure. But like I said - Smith plays and we're a completely different team - is that papering over the cracks, or is it just having a halfback that can adequately perform his role?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Pakman team:
Joe/Coles/Nepo/BBBR/Whitelock/Cane(if 100%)/Paps/Akira/Nugget/Ritchie/Quinn/Reece/Rieko/Jordan/Jordie
Bench: Karl/Samsoni/Lomax/Vaa'i/Ardie/Weber/DMac/Havili
If Cane not 100%, Paps to 7 and Sotutu at 8.
Is Jacobson available? He doesn't seem to have as much impact against the top sides IMHO as earlier in the season? And although he seemed to do well at 6, and initially at 8, seems a bit quiet to me in more recent games, but perhaps he was working in tight hence I saw less of him..
He’s a solid player, and ticks lots of boxes, but doesn’t seem to have a noticeable point of difference?
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@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
I do hear you. Nepo isn't a naturally coordinated type of fellow. That said, I thought he did well against Wales. Time in squad would suggest they are clear he's the man scrum time. I suspect he's also a pretty good lifter.
Need Joe to step up on looser stuff. Still remember him throwing behind back offload against French in 2015!I might be imagining it, but I seem to recall when Laulala started out at the Crusaders, he was a mobile prop with good loose skills? He's not on his own, but the all round handling in the team has taken a complete nose dive this season - whether that is stemming from the terrible service from halfback, or just lack of appropriate training I can't be sure. But like I said - Smith plays and we're a completely different team - is that papering over the cracks, or is it just having a halfback that can adequately perform his role?
I heard Laulala lost his mobility because Robertson is not coaching him anymore.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Pakman team:
Joe/Coles/Nepo/BBBR/Whitelock/Cane(if 100%)/Paps/Akira/Nugget/Ritchie/Quinn/Reece/Rieko/Jordan/Jordie
Bench: Karl/Samsoni/Lomax/Vaa'i/Ardie/Weber/DMac/Havili
If Cane not 100%, Paps to 7 and Sotutu at 8.
Is Jacobson available? He doesn't seem to have as much impact against the top sides IMHO as earlier in the season? And although he seemed to do well at 6, and initially at 8, seems a bit quiet to me in more recent games, but perhaps he was working in tight hence I saw less of him..
He’s a solid player, and ticks lots of boxes, but doesn’t seem to have a noticeable point of difference?
he can be solid in the tackle but yes I agree with you.
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
I do hear you. Nepo isn't a naturally coordinated type of fellow. That said, I thought he did well against Wales. Time in squad would suggest they are clear he's the man scrum time. I suspect he's also a pretty good lifter.
Need Joe to step up on looser stuff. Still remember him throwing behind back offload against French in 2015!I might be imagining it, but I seem to recall when Laulala started out at the Crusaders, he was a mobile prop with good loose skills? He's not on his own, but the all round handling in the team has taken a complete nose dive this season - whether that is stemming from the terrible service from halfback, or just lack of appropriate training I can't be sure. But like I said - Smith plays and we're a completely different team - is that papering over the cracks, or is it just having a halfback that can adequately perform his role?
I heard Laulala lost his mobility because Robertson is not coaching him anymore.
Fucking NZR.
Maybe he needs to lose some neck weight.
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@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
I do hear you. Nepo isn't a naturally coordinated type of fellow. That said, I thought he did well against Wales. Time in squad would suggest they are clear he's the man scrum time. I suspect he's also a pretty good lifter.
Need Joe to step up on looser stuff. Still remember him throwing behind back offload against French in 2015!I might be imagining it, but I seem to recall when Laulala started out at the Crusaders, he was a mobile prop with good loose skills? He's not on his own, but the all round handling in the team has taken a complete nose dive this season - whether that is stemming from the terrible service from halfback, or just lack of appropriate training I can't be sure. But like I said - Smith plays and we're a completely different team - is that papering over the cracks, or is it just having a halfback that can adequately perform his role?
I heard Laulala lost his mobility because Robertson is not coaching him anymore.
Fucking NZR.
Maybe he needs to lose some neck weight.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
I do hear you. Nepo isn't a naturally coordinated type of fellow. That said, I thought he did well against Wales. Time in squad would suggest they are clear he's the man scrum time. I suspect he's also a pretty good lifter.
Need Joe to step up on looser stuff. Still remember him throwing behind back offload against French in 2015!If Laulala isn't going to be in the team for his ball handling, he needs to be clearing bodies. Compare the work Furlong and Porter got through at ruck time with Moody and Laulala. In this area, NZ have never really replaced Franks. Coles and Taylor like the wide channels rather than the tight, Whitelock is a tight forward, Retallick is expected to range and shift bodies too, Blackadder isn't accurate enough even with great energy, Papali'i does tight work and Savea doesn't shift bodies either.
When you see backs having to clear bodies from rucks and protect ball as much as the ABs backs do, you have to wonder why you would select smaller backs who will struggle to move opposing players if required to do so.
Props need to up their game to generate the fast ball NZ need to play their gameplan.
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@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
I do hear you. Nepo isn't a naturally coordinated type of fellow. That said, I thought he did well against Wales. Time in squad would suggest they are clear he's the man scrum time. I suspect he's also a pretty good lifter.
Need Joe to step up on looser stuff. Still remember him throwing behind back offload against French in 2015!I might be imagining it, but I seem to recall when Laulala started out at the Crusaders, he was a mobile prop with good loose skills? He's not on his own, but the all round handling in the team has taken a complete nose dive this season - whether that is stemming from the terrible service from halfback, or just lack of appropriate training I can't be sure. But like I said - Smith plays and we're a completely different team - is that papering over the cracks, or is it just having a halfback that can adequately perform his role?
Mick Byrne has been gone for how long now? Was he ever replaced? Maybe the players aren't being challenged enough to develop the skills needed to execute under pressure without a specific coach doing the challenging?
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When's the AB team announced?
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
When's the AB team announced?
Seems late. Are they trying to get BB on bench instead of DMac?
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
I do hear you. Nepo isn't a naturally coordinated type of fellow. That said, I thought he did well against Wales. Time in squad would suggest they are clear he's the man scrum time. I suspect he's also a pretty good lifter.
Need Joe to step up on looser stuff. Still remember him throwing behind back offload against French in 2015!If Laulala isn't going to be in the team for his ball handling, he needs to be clearing bodies. Compare the work Furlong and Porter got through at ruck time with Moody and Laulala. In this area, NZ have never really replaced Franks. Coles and Taylor like the wide channels rather than the tight, Whitelock is a tight forward, Retallick is expected to range and shift bodies too, Blackadder isn't accurate enough even with great energy, Papali'i does tight work and Savea doesn't shift bodies either.
When you see backs having to clear bodies from rucks and protect ball as much as the ABs backs do, you have to wonder why you would select smaller backs who will struggle to move opposing players if required to do so.
Props need to up their game to generate the fast ball NZ need to play their gameplan.
I thought the bench props were better in this area.
