Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
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I am not a Mark Reason fan at all but he’s gets this article pretty right IMO.
M[link text](link url) https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/127007795/mark-reason-ian-foster-turns-all-blacks-wonderland-into-blunderland -
@chris he starts with some interesting points...but then has to go all sensational journolist on it
"For a start, it implied that employers can effectively demote an employee for taking paternity leave. It would be hilarious if Mo’unga took the case to an industrial tribunal, although it will clearly never happen. He might even win"
....as if spots on a team are ever guaranteed
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
I am not a Mark Reason fan at all but he’s gets this article pretty right IMO.
M[link text](link url) https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/127007795/mark-reason-ian-foster-turns-all-blacks-wonderland-into-blunderlandHe’s mostly right but a lot of this is utter click bait bollocks
There are plenty of worrying aspects to this whole charade. Barrett came back from Japan saying he wanted his number 10 jersey back. Instead of brusquely telling him that the coach picked the team, Foster lauded his ambition. The likes of Sir Graham Henry would never have so badly undermined their own authority..
Beaudy said he enjoyed and wanted to play ten, not get HIS jersey back. Players stating a preference is good, and correctly a sign of ambition - like Reiko wanting to play centre. Doesn’t mean the coach will choose that.
It appears that John Plumtree is wielding more and more influence with the insertion of the Hurricanes axis of TJ Perenara, Ardie Savea and Beauden Barrett into the 8, 9 and 10 shirts.
More clickbait bullshit, he has no idea
But yeah the wheels are wobbling and have been for years
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris he starts with some interesting points...but then has to go all sensational journolist on it
"For a start, it implied that employers can effectively demote an employee for taking paternity leave. It would be hilarious if Mo’unga took the case to an industrial tribunal, although it will clearly never happen. He might even win"
....as if spots on a team are ever guaranteed
Yeah I don’t agree with all of it that’s why I said he got it pretty right.
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@machpants said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
I am not a Mark Reason fan at all but he’s gets this article pretty right IMO.
M[link text](link url) https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/127007795/mark-reason-ian-foster-turns-all-blacks-wonderland-into-blunderlandHe’s mostly right but a lot of this is utter click bait bollocks
There are plenty of worrying aspects to this whole charade. Barrett came back from Japan saying he wanted his number 10 jersey back. Instead of brusquely telling him that the coach picked the team, Foster lauded his ambition. The likes of Sir Graham Henry would never have so badly undermined their own authority..
Beaudy said he enjoyed and wanted to play ten, not get HIS jersey back. Players stating a preference is good, and correctly a sign of ambition - like Reiko wanting to play centre. Doesn’t mean the coach will choose that.
It appears that John Plumtree is wielding more and more influence with the insertion of the Hurricanes axis of TJ Perenara, Ardie Savea and Beauden Barrett into the 8, 9 and 10 shirts.
More clickbait bullshit, he has no idea
But yeah the wheels are wobbling and have been for years
Yep that’s the main thing he got right I don’t agree with all of it. But there is some truth in the article.
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@chris really all he gt right was the idea we dont have a 12...then it goes off the rails
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris really all he gt right was the idea we dont have a 12...then it goes off the rails
There is more than that in the Article he got right amongst some BS.
That would be by accident. Reason's knowledge of and ability to write anything insightful about rugby is encapsulated in the infinite monkey theorem.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris really all he gt right was the idea we dont have a 12...then it goes off the rails
There is more than that in the Article he got right amongst some BS.
That would be by accident. Reason's knowledge of and ability to write anything insightful about rugby is encapsulated in the infinite monkey theorem.
Yeah no argument there.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Um I a like Rennie, but I don't know how to break this to you, he's actually coached the Wallabies as long as Foster has done the ABs, and it's not his first year, but second!
I not knocking him by any means (actually always been a Rennie fan) or saying he better or worse than Foster (never would) .@dan54 yes that was pointed out to me. Covid has blurred a lot as far as timeline. But you do admit Foster has been involved with the ABs for 9 years (per @Chris) and I don’t think he was a passenger.
There is one thing I can guarantee you, I (and I guessing anyone on this bored) would have a lot less knowledge of who should be coaching any teams than the people who appoint the coaches.
So we shouldn’t have opinions as they we don’t know what the f we are talking about. You agree with the NZRFU then because most on this board don’t. Most here would have preferred Rennie, Joseph and Brown or Razor. Certainly not status quo.
Mate we all should have opinions, but we have to realise that generally we have uninformed opinions. Just to make it clear, I was real keen on Joseph/Brown coaching the ABs, they weren't available , neither was Rennie. And I would of been more than happy with Razor if had been appointed, but I wasn't doing the appointments.
mate I have been on rugby boards form schoolboy to senior clubs, to provincial rugby, and have been part of appointing plenty of coaches (managers etc as well as doing these jobs). One thing I can guarantee almost every coach appointed there were people who knew better and knew better coaches etc (including when I was the said coach etc), but funnily enough generally they were people who didn't know the reasons why or how appointments were actually made. Hell I have voted against one of my best mates when he stood as coach for a rep team because I believed another coach had a better plan for team.
In saying that we all entitled to opinions, but they just that opinions, on the internet, with absolutely no outcome whether we right or wrong. -
didn't Joseph kind of say he didn't want to apply like a score of other people?
I know its a bit arrogant but i think there is some truth to the point...why didn't we just go after the person we wanted? why open it to all? did we think there was a international level coach there that we hadn't heard of?
The best job interview had to be their current jobs, why didnt we just ask to talk to those we wanted to apply, maybe we did and it was always only down to fozzie and razor
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@dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Um I a like Rennie, but I don't know how to break this to you, he's actually coached the Wallabies as long as Foster has done the ABs, and it's not his first year, but second!
I not knocking him by any means (actually always been a Rennie fan) or saying he better or worse than Foster (never would) .@dan54 yes that was pointed out to me. Covid has blurred a lot as far as timeline. But you do admit Foster has been involved with the ABs for 9 years (per @Chris) and I don’t think he was a passenger.
There is one thing I can guarantee you, I (and I guessing anyone on this bored) would have a lot less knowledge of who should be coaching any teams than the people who appoint the coaches.
So we shouldn’t have opinions as they we don’t know what the f we are talking about. You agree with the NZRFU then because most on this board don’t. Most here would have preferred Rennie, Joseph and Brown or Razor. Certainly not status quo.
Mate we all should have opinions, but we have to realise that generally we have uninformed opinions. Just to make it clear, I was real keen on Joseph/Brown coaching the ABs, they weren't available , neither was Rennie. And I would of been more than happy with Razor if had been appointed, but I wasn't doing the appointments.
mate I have been on rugby boards form schoolboy to senior clubs, to provincial rugby, and have been part of appointing plenty of coaches (managers etc as well as doing these jobs). One thing I can guarantee almost every coach appointed there were people who knew better and knew better coaches etc (including when I was the said coach etc), but funnily enough generally they were people who didn't know the reasons why or how appointments were actually made. Hell I have voted against one of my best mates when he stood as coach for a rep team because I believed another coach had a better plan for team.
In saying that we all entitled to opinions, but they just that opinions, on the internet, with absolutely no outcome whether we right or wrong.That also does not mean Coaching appointments are always correctly selected by the Committees appointing them.
History is littered with terrible appointments which have proven as being bad decisions over time.
History through the Chiefs and the last 2 years shows it was a bad decision.
Add whatever role Foster had in the wc semi final loss to England we have more reasons to think it was a bad idea,Especially to reappoint him before the NH tour.That could have egg all over the NZRFU's face. -
My understanding is that Henry & co thought Razor wasn't ready because he needed to get out of his comfort zone here in NZ. Sir GH, just because you took that path doesn't mean it is the right path for everyone. Shouldn't GH have been put out to the retirement pasture due to the fact he is not neutral and is in fact quite cosy with Hansen and by extension Foster?
AND after the appointment of Foster, he goes and says Rennie was his favoured choice! FFS! -
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Um I a like Rennie, but I don't know how to break this to you, he's actually coached the Wallabies as long as Foster has done the ABs, and it's not his first year, but second!
I not knocking him by any means (actually always been a Rennie fan) or saying he better or worse than Foster (never would) .@dan54 yes that was pointed out to me. Covid has blurred a lot as far as timeline. But you do admit Foster has been involved with the ABs for 9 years (per @Chris) and I don’t think he was a passenger.
There is one thing I can guarantee you, I (and I guessing anyone on this bored) would have a lot less knowledge of who should be coaching any teams than the people who appoint the coaches.
So we shouldn’t have opinions as they we don’t know what the f we are talking about. You agree with the NZRFU then because most on this board don’t. Most here would have preferred Rennie, Joseph and Brown or Razor. Certainly not status quo.
Mate we all should have opinions, but we have to realise that generally we have uninformed opinions. Just to make it clear, I was real keen on Joseph/Brown coaching the ABs, they weren't available , neither was Rennie. And I would of been more than happy with Razor if had been appointed, but I wasn't doing the appointments.
mate I have been on rugby boards form schoolboy to senior clubs, to provincial rugby, and have been part of appointing plenty of coaches (managers etc as well as doing these jobs). One thing I can guarantee almost every coach appointed there were people who knew better and knew better coaches etc (including when I was the said coach etc), but funnily enough generally they were people who didn't know the reasons why or how appointments were actually made. Hell I have voted against one of my best mates when he stood as coach for a rep team because I believed another coach had a better plan for team.
In saying that we all entitled to opinions, but they just that opinions, on the internet, with absolutely no outcome whether we right or wrong.That also does not mean Coaching appointments are always correctly selected by the Committees appointing them.
History is littered with terrible appointments which have proven as being bad decisions over time.
History through the Chiefs and the last 2 years shows it was a bad decision.
Add whatever role Foster had in the wc semi final loss to England we have more reasons to think it was a bad idea,Especially to reappoint him before the NH tour.That could have egg all over the NZRFU's face.Of course appointments are not always right, but there has to be a way of appointing coaches etc. And to be honest it doesn't matter who is appointed you will get other candidates supporters disliking and trying to undermine support.
Does anyone remember the shit storm that went down when Robbie Deans missed out to Henry in 2008, somewhat similar, there were thousands who knew better and many weren't even going to support the ABs against Wallabies etc. Ever notice how quiet all those protests were when the ABs won in 2011. As I say, I don't know who should be coach, and would of liked Jamie Joseph, but I am an AB supporter, so will support whoever is playing etc for ABs! -
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
My understanding is that Henry & co thought Razor wasn't ready because he needed to get out of his comfort zone here in NZ. Sir GH, just because you took that path doesn't mean it is the right path for everyone. Shouldn't GH have been put out to the retirement pasture due to the fact he is not neutral and is in fact quite cosy with Hansen and by extension Foster?
AND after the appointment of Foster, he goes and says Rennie was his favoured choice! FFS!Bullshit Henry never said Rennie was his favoured choice, he said he would of liked Rennie to be retained in NZ system. Rennie was never a choice as he already had a job, with Wallabies!!
And actually Razor said he thought he perhaps stuffed up a bit at interview with a couple of wromg answers, well that's what I heard him say. I also wonder if Razor's coaching team was held in high regard as Razor did originally try for Brown on his team and was turned down.
My dream is a Joseph, Brown , Razor team to coach, if egos could work in together. -
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
didn't Joseph kind of say he didn't want to apply like a score of other people?
I know its a bit arrogant but i think there is some truth to the point...why didn't we just go after the person we wanted? why open it to all? did we think there was a international level coach there that we hadn't heard of?
The best job interview had to be their current jobs, why didnt we just ask to talk to those we wanted to apply, maybe we did and it was always only down to fozzie and razor
NZR sent out letters to all coaches that they thought had coached at high enough level, I think about 12-15? Including Razor, Joseph, Schmidt,Rennie etc etc , and only Razor and Foster applied.
