All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.I guess it is a different approach to taking your best fullback and playing him at centre š
Is it though ?
It is easier for a wing to convert to centre, no? One of the ABs greatest ever (Umaga) went down this route. I think 13 is one of the most difficult positions on the pitch, because it requires so much discipline and concentration. Conrad Smith wasn't fast, but he was decisive and his mind worked super fast to spot opportunities and risks. He was also a brilliant communicator.
R Ioane doesn't strike me as being a great communicator (yet). He is v instinctive which can be a good trait for a 13. But 13 needs to be controlled so as not disconnect the inside backs with the outside backs. If Ioane is going to be the 13 for the WC, he just needs to be left there to develop his craft from now on.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.It was slightly tounge in cheek but if there's a bloke in NZ rugby that has all the attributes we are looking for at 12 then it's Jordie - strong defender, not afraid to run hard at the line, good vision and a big boot. He's cemented his spot at the back now where he uses those attributes well but he could have just as easily excelled at 12, a position he's played a fair amount of in the past.
If Jordie goes to 12, Jordan can go to 15 which means Bridge can come back in at 14 š. In fairness, if Caleb Clarke comes back well next year, a back 3 of Clarke, Reece and Jordan is possible.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Thatās interesting analysis and essentially it means that in our current set-up Blackadder might actually be a no. 8 moving forward.
We also need more help up front and they need leadership off the bench, or as shown on the weekend, the fuckers wonāt use the players they picked (Iām furious about them not using two players when the others made 240 tackles, talk about lack of trust).
So, we may as well start:
Taukeiāaho
Vaaāi (or Lord)
TupaeaAnd play off the bench:
Coles
Retallick
Havili (who would be benched benched if ALB was OK)Yes, may as well start them. Nothing to lose.
I think that's a good observation that Blackadder moves to 8. Workaholic 8 has worked well for ABs in the past with So'oialo. It does require a ball carrying brute at 6 though (Collins/Kaino). The only candidate for this in the current squad is Akira Ioane.
So if Blackadder plays, back row combos could be Ioane/Cane/Blackadder or Ioane/Papali'i/Blackadder or Ioane/Savea/Blackadder.
So that means there's no place for Savea and Blackadder in the same team if Savea isn't at 7.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.It was slightly tounge in cheek but if there's a bloke in NZ rugby that has all the attributes we are looking for at 12 then it's Jordie - strong defender, not afraid to run hard at the line, good vision and a big boot. He's cemented his spot at the back now where he uses those attributes well but he could have just as easily excelled at 12, a position he's played a fair amount of in the past.
If Jordie goes to 12, Jordan can go to 15 which means Bridge can come back in at 14 š. In fairness, if Caleb Clarke comes back well next year, a back 3 of Clarke, Reece and Jordan is possible.
or Havili. There's probably another good FB I forgot.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.I guess it is a different approach to taking your best fullback and playing him at centre š
Is it though ?
It is easier for a wing to convert to centre, no? One of the ABs greatest ever (Umaga) went down this route. I think 13 is one of the most difficult positions on the pitch, because it requires so much discipline and concentration. Conrad Smith wasn't fast, but he was decisive and his mind worked super fast to spot opportunities and risks. He was also a brilliant communicator.
R Ioane doesn't strike me as being a great communicator (yet). He is v instinctive which can be a good trait for a 13. But 13 needs to be controlled so as not disconnect the inside backs with the outside backs. If Ioane is going to be the 13 for the WC, he just needs to be left there to develop his craft from now on.
You are taking me back to the Cullen being put at centre days that was a disaster,
Taking the best FB we ever had and putting in a position that made him ineffective.
For me leave JB at FB heās going. Very well there and Reiko on the wing. -
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.I guess it is a different approach to taking your best fullback and playing him at centre š
Is it though ?
It is easier for a wing to convert to centre, no? One of the ABs greatest ever (Umaga) went down this route. I think 13 is one of the most difficult positions on the pitch, because it requires so much discipline and concentration. Conrad Smith wasn't fast, but he was decisive and his mind worked super fast to spot opportunities and risks. He was also a brilliant communicator.
R Ioane doesn't strike me as being a great communicator (yet). He is v instinctive which can be a good trait for a 13. But 13 needs to be controlled so as not disconnect the inside backs with the outside backs. If Ioane is going to be the 13 for the WC, he just needs to be left there to develop his craft from now on.
You are taking me back to the Cullen being put at centre days that was a disaster,
Taking the best FB we ever had and putting in a position that made him ineffective.
For me leave JB at FB heās going. Very well there and Reiko on the wing.That leaves who in the centres?
I feel like France could win by a half century and the subsequent review would find a way to excuse the coaches. Something about covid...
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.I guess it is a different approach to taking your best fullback and playing him at centre š
Is it though ?
It is easier for a wing to convert to centre, no? One of the ABs greatest ever (Umaga) went down this route. I think 13 is one of the most difficult positions on the pitch, because it requires so much discipline and concentration. Conrad Smith wasn't fast, but he was decisive and his mind worked super fast to spot opportunities and risks. He was also a brilliant communicator.
R Ioane doesn't strike me as being a great communicator (yet). He is v instinctive which can be a good trait for a 13. But 13 needs to be controlled so as not disconnect the inside backs with the outside backs. If Ioane is going to be the 13 for the WC, he just needs to be left there to develop his craft from now on.
You are taking me back to the Cullen being put at centre days that was a disaster,
Taking the best FB we ever had and putting in a position that made him ineffective.
For me leave JB at FB heās going. Very well there and Reiko on the wing.That leaves who in the centres?
I feel like France could win by a half century and the subsequent review would find a way to excuse the coaches. Something about covid...
Tupaea and Ioane. Sink or swim time.
- Smith (bring direction to forwards and decision making to backline)
- Mo'unga (more focus on territory. Play what is in front of him, but not within own third. Kicks in behind defensive line to keep defence honest.)
- Reece (Ireland used Lowe v well as an extra play making option to keep NZ defence guessing. Reece has similar skillset. Why not use him?)
- Tupaea - run hard. Defend hard.
- Ioane - run hard. Defend hard. Communication.
- Jordan - more chip and chases š for the highlights reel.
- Barrett - more communication to identify opportunities.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Thatās interesting analysis and essentially it means that in our current set-up Blackadder might actually be a no. 8 moving forward.
We also need more help up front and they need leadership off the bench, or as shown on the weekend, the fuckers wonāt use the players they picked (Iām furious about them not using two players when the others made 240 tackles, talk about lack of trust).
So, we may as well start:
Taukeiāaho
Vaaāi (or Lord)
TupaeaAnd play off the bench:
Coles
Retallick
Havili (who would be benched benched if ALB was OK)Yes, may as well start them. Nothing to lose.
I think that's a good observation that Blackadder moves to 8. Workaholic 8 has worked well for ABs in the past with So'oialo. It does require a ball carrying brute at 6 though (Collins/Kaino). The only candidate for this in the current squad is Akira Ioane.
So if Blackadder plays, back row combos could be Ioane/Cane/Blackadder or Ioane/Papali'i/Blackadder or Ioane/Savea/Blackadder.
So that means there's no place for Savea and Blackadder in the same team if Savea isn't at 7.
The issue here is that Fozzie is supposedly on the record as saying that he sees Ardie as an 8 that can 7, so without counting those outside the squad:
6: Akira, Blackadder/ Jacobson, Paps?
7: Cane, Paps, Blackadder
8: Savea, Jacobson, Sotutu, BlackadderSo, if we want injury cover, Blackadder looks ideal, and if we are happy to give up turnover ability, we could run Cane/Blackadder or Paps/Blackadder and tell them to empty the tank in 50/30 (or have Akira try to empty the tank in 50 then use the workhorses to finish, but lose ball running ability).
I think we need to see what game plan we want to play, but last weekend showed that we don't have the cattle or the edge in fitness to play 2015 style anymore.
We have to create during the first 50 and try to take advantage in the last 30.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.I guess it is a different approach to taking your best fullback and playing him at centre š
Is it though ?
It is easier for a wing to convert to centre, no? One of the ABs greatest ever (Umaga) went down this route. I think 13 is one of the most difficult positions on the pitch, because it requires so much discipline and concentration. Conrad Smith wasn't fast, but he was decisive and his mind worked super fast to spot opportunities and risks. He was also a brilliant communicator.
R Ioane doesn't strike me as being a great communicator (yet). He is v instinctive which can be a good trait for a 13. But 13 needs to be controlled so as not disconnect the inside backs with the outside backs. If Ioane is going to be the 13 for the WC, he just needs to be left there to develop his craft from now on.
You are taking me back to the Cullen being put at centre days that was a disaster,
Taking the best FB we ever had and putting in a position that made him ineffective.
For me leave JB at FB heās going. Very well there and Reiko on the wing.That leaves who in the centres?
I feel like France could win by a half century and the subsequent review would find a way to excuse the coaches. Something about covid...
Tupaea and Ioane. Sink or swim time.
- Smith (bring direction to forwards and decision making to backline)
- Mo'unga (more focus on territory. Play what is in front of him, but not within own third. Kicks in behind defensive line to keep defence honest.)
- Reece (Ireland used Lowe v well as an extra play making option to keep NZ defence guessing. Reece has similar skillset. Why not use him?)
- Tupaea - run hard. Defend hard.
- Ioane - run hard. Defend hard. Communication.
- Jordan - more chip and chases š for the highlights reel.
- Barrett - more communication to identify opportunities.
and don't get isolated. I'm hoping France is not so good at isolating as Irish forwards are. Those cheating bastards, using skill, ferocity, and commitment.
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@duluth it will be interesting to see what Razor does with Havili given he is the best fullback in our squad.
We will potentially have Havili, Goodhue, Ennor, Leicester for the midfield and Havili and Jordan for fullback and Bridge, Reece, Jordan and possibly Leicester for the wing.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.It was slightly tounge in cheek but if there's a bloke in NZ rugby that has all the attributes we are looking for at 12 then it's Jordie - strong defender, not afraid to run hard at the line, good vision and a big boot. He's cemented his spot at the back now where he uses those attributes well but he could have just as easily excelled at 12, a position he's played a fair amount of in the past.
Swap Havili and Jordie and we are on to something š
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Iād start Coles and have Sami on the bench.
Props argghhh
Retallick and Whitelock need to lift.
Was watching some highlights of France v Oz and what about a loose trio of
6- Ioane
7-Savea
8-JacobsonBlackadder on the bench.
Backs - donāt really mind who, as long as Smith starts.
That loose trio didnāt work in Bok2.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Razor's coaching areas of technical expertise has primarily consisted of the forwards/breakdown and defense.
By all accounts he's world class in those specialist areas, in addition to being an excellent selector, man-manager and strategist.
Like I said previously, Wyatt Crockett played under all of Deans, Henry, Smith, Hansen & Robertson (at various stages) and he singled out Razor and Smithy as the 2 standout coaches among that group.
Jeez I wonder what areas the ABs are really struggling in atm? Defense patterns, our scramble is excellent but we let teams make us scramble too easily
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
The issue with starting Ethan Blackadder in the All Blacks' back row
Blackadder is not the finished product, and isn't expected to be, but, in that respect, the hype needs to be dampened considerably.
Good article. Comes down to balance again and choosing the right players to carry out the roles the AB coaches want.
The tight five need to provide a platform for them to do this though. Put the NZ back row behind the Irish tight five and I'm sure they'd have looked good on Saturday.
Put the Irish loosies behind the AB tight five and I think they'd also look good.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Thatās interesting analysis and essentially it means that in our current set-up Blackadder might actually be a no. 8 moving forward.
We also need more help up front and they need leadership off the bench, or as shown on the weekend, the fuckers wonāt use the players they picked (Iām furious about them not using two players when the others made 240 tackles, talk about lack of trust).
So, we may as well start:
Taukeiāaho
Vaaāi (or Lord)
TupaeaAnd play off the bench:
Coles
Retallick
Havili (who would be benched benched if ALB was OK)Yes, may as well start them. Nothing to lose.
I think that's a good observation that Blackadder moves to 8. Workaholic 8 has worked well for ABs in the past with So'oialo. It does require a ball carrying brute at 6 though (Collins/Kaino). The only candidate for this in the current squad is Akira Ioane.
So if Blackadder plays, back row combos could be Ioane/Cane/Blackadder or Ioane/Papali'i/Blackadder or Ioane/Savea/Blackadder.
So that means there's no place for Savea and Blackadder in the same team if Savea isn't at 7.
Papaliāi is decent at this too but ( I could be imagining it ) he looks to have lost a bit of bulk this season ?
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Judging by Foster's comments recently I doubt we are going to see much change in the 23 apart from enforced ones.
Starting Smith is definitely an option, so is another rejig of the loosies. The midfield/bench is an enforced change as is the playmaker cover.
I expect to see something close to....
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Joe Moody
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Dane Coles
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Nepo Laulala
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Brodie Retallick
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Samuel Whitelock ā captain
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Dalton Papalii
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Sam Cane
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Ardie Savea
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Aaron Smith1
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Richie Moāunga
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Sevu Reece
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Quinn Tupaea
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Rieko Ioane (45)
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Will Jordan
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Jordie Barrett
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Samisoni Taukei'aho
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Karl Tuāinukuafe
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Ofa Tuungafasi
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Tupou Vaaāi
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Akira Ioane
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TJ Perenara
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David Havili
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Damien McKenzie
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Razor canāt be held responsible for the idiot that stuffs his game up when he is not under Razor.
Not sure what this has to do with George Bridge....
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Razor canāt be held responsible for the idiot that stuffs his game up when he is not under Razor.
Not sure what this has to do with George Bridge....
Bridge plays ok under Razor so same story.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
The issue with starting Ethan Blackadder in the All Blacks' back row
Blackadder is not the finished product, and isn't expected to be, but, in that respect, the hype needs to be dampened considerably.
Good article. Comes down to balance again and choosing the right players to carry out the roles the AB coaches want.
The tight five need to provide a platform for them to do this though. Put the NZ back row behind the Irish tight five and I'm sure they'd have looked good on Saturday.
Put the Irish loosies behind the AB tight five and I think they'd also look good.
With what ball? š
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Razor canāt be held responsible for the idiot that stuffs his game up when he is not under Razor.
Not sure what this has to do with George Bridge....
Bridge plays ok under Razor so same story.
But that only holds true if Test rugby isn't step-up from Super Rugby, doesn't it?
