Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
Foster is stagnant, the signs have been there for ages, and we paper over the cracks. The commentators don't help, they seem to be captured by the NZR commercial models to only say good things. I literally turned off the USA game because the commentators were banging on about how awesome the ABs were, when you could see they were just faster, bigger and stronger and not creating with anything but with a mismatch.
Yeah - I think Foster was the continuity pick, but it is the continuity of sytems that others have caught up with and probably passed. As well as all the IP going abroad via coaches and players - Ted, Richie, Ceri Evans and others have written books giving some of it away.
There is still a bit of innovation coming through, I think. Those little midfield chip kicks that Jordan especially has been catching and scoring or setting up from seem new to me. Though they might have come from the Crusaders.
But, I look at Foster, Plumtree, McLeod, Hooar and think surely we could get more out of a group of Razor, Rangi, Brown, Gatland and Schmidt (not necessarily all of them (and supplemented by others) and if some of them are willing to put their egos away for the cause)?
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@chris-b Your last point describes the difficulty of putting a "coaching team" together if they all want to be in charge or only work with specific people. Brown would have been a great addition to the ABs but that was only going to happen under Joseph. I would prefer we looked to RL for a defensive coach.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
There is still a bit of innovation coming through, I think. Those little midfield chip kicks that Jordan especially has been catching and scoring or setting up from seem new to me. Though they might have come from the Crusaders.
I'm thinking more of rules -responsive elements like the Aus Semi 2011 where we completely eliminated Pocock from the game by running at him. Or tactically the dual fullback structure. Or the pod system, or even the infamous 'flat backline'. Hell, right now innovation would be trying to play a fast recycle game up front, suck in defenders and then earn the right to go wide.
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@bovidae Brown seems to have at least partly cut the umbilical cord with Joseph now and seems in the past to have preferred a technical rather than leadership job, so I think there's a good chance he would work under someone. I don't know whether Schmidt would be interested - but, something like the Blues consulting role might be possible. I think Razor has set his stall on head coach.
It's all speculation, but unfortunately, it all goes back to the foolishness surrounding the Robbie Deans question. Appoint the fucking head coach and then work with him to appoint the assistants from the available pool - don't have coaching teams applying.
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@nzzp I've got a feeling that Razor might have come up with the innovation of kicking for the corner from penalties that the Irish used heavily to our detriment.
I remember the Crusaders being heavily criticised for their "arrogance" in doing this vs the B&I Lions.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
Foster is stagnant, the signs have been there for ages, and we paper over the cracks. The commentators don't help, they seem to be captured by the NZR commercial models to only say good things. I literally turned off the USA game because the commentators were banging on about how awesome the ABs were, when you could see they were just faster, bigger and stronger and not creating with anything but with a mismatch.
There is still a bit of innovation coming through, I think. Those little midfield chip kicks that Jordan especially has been catching and scoring or setting up from seem new to me. Though they might have come from the Crusaders.
is that really how we'd judge coaching ability, thats a nice gimmick or novelty...not something you can base a game plan around
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@kiwiwomble Yes!!!
Or, on second thoughts, maybe it's a small example.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris-b said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
Foster is stagnant, the signs have been there for ages, and we paper over the cracks. The commentators don't help, they seem to be captured by the NZR commercial models to only say good things. I literally turned off the USA game because the commentators were banging on about how awesome the ABs were, when you could see they were just faster, bigger and stronger and not creating with anything but with a mismatch.
There is still a bit of innovation coming through, I think. Those little midfield chip kicks that Jordan especially has been catching and scoring or setting up from seem new to me. Though they might have come from the Crusaders.
is that really how we'd judge coaching ability, thats a nice gimmick or novelty...not something you can base a game plan around
Fuck its better than the we don't have game plan throw our hands in the air I don't know what to do Game plan we have under these muppets.
They have had 2 seasons to sort this out plus Foster had 10 years under Hansen I don't see any thing bringing us forward from this coaching group. -
@chris that kind of what i was getting at....the biggest compliment we can find is they are still "innovating"...and the first example of that is pretty much a gimmick trick play...IE their not really innovating in a meaningful way
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris that kind of what i was getting at....the biggest compliment we can find is they are still "innovating"...and the first example of that is pretty much a gimmick trick play...IE their not really innovating in a meaningful way
Yep see your point
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rugby Planet gettingit right on their Hot or Not
Questions for Ian Foster: The All Blacks have had a much better 2021 but this was certainly a step backwards for the three-time world champions. After the issues in 2020 and the criticism that came Foster’s way, their results – and performances – this season certainly eased the pressure on the head coach, but the focus is now back on him and the coaching staff. He has now succumbed to Australia, Argentina, South Africa and Ireland in a year, and France could add their name to that list this weekend. Given that his predecessors Steve Hansen and Graham Henry rarely lost a match, let alone to that many countries, it is not a great record to have. It was a continuity appointment when they needed a visionary as, ultimately, it doesn’t feel like much has changed from the Henry and Hansen era. The British and Irish Lions, to a degree, figured them out in 2017 and since then not much has been altered, other than some of the personnel they are using, and you can’t really question the individual talent in New Zealand. It is now an especially huge game this weekend against Les Bleus..
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@machpants said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
rugby Planet gettingit right on their Hot or Not
Questions for Ian Foster: The All Blacks have had a much better 2021 but this was certainly a step backwards for the three-time world champions. After the issues in 2020 and the criticism that came Foster’s way, their results – and performances – this season certainly eased the pressure on the head coach, but the focus is now back on him and the coaching staff. He has now succumbed to Australia, Argentina, South Africa and Ireland in a year, and France could add their name to that list this weekend. Given that his predecessors Steve Hansen and Graham Henry rarely lost a match, let alone to that many countries, it is not a great record to have. It was a continuity appointment when they needed a visionary as, ultimately, it doesn’t feel like much has changed from the Henry and Hansen era. The British and Irish Lions, to a degree, figured them out in 2017 and since then not much has been altered, other than some of the personnel they are using, and you can’t really question the individual talent in New Zealand. It is now an especially huge game this weekend against Les Bleus..
Nailed it.
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
I am guessing but out of interest how many players has Foster used to find the right combinations in his 2 years as head coach.
50 players ? And still has no clue.yeah, i get you are on a fucking red and black rage-a-thon at the moment, but i am not sure that's a stick you can beat him with.
He knows exactly who his preferred line up is
The problems are:
Moody and Taylor are past it. Behind Moody there isn't anyone bashing down the door. Behind Taylor Coles has been out for ages, and the next guy has his training wheels on
Whitelock has a lot of miles on teh clock and it shows, Retallick has been severly hamstrung by his time in Japan. The next guy is home having a baby, the rest are babies
In the loose, he has a hard on for Savea, because tests are won by YouTube highlight reels. He wanted Akira, but he blinked once he has a couple of low tests. Cane has been out. Everyone has been tried to varying levels of success, and not a single player saying "i am the guy"
Halfback we have one guy. TJP is rubbish. The rest are kids. Of the 5 starting halfbacks in NZ, one is ineligbile/injured
Neither 10 is gonna drive you around in a tight 1
He tried Havili as his 12 and it didn't work. His preferred partner is ALB, who for whatever reason hans't set the world on fire. Ioane is picked because we need something different there, and it's not working
He's basically run the same back 3 all year because it is workingFoster and the panel know who their best team is, the problem is the players in the top team are not performing. And i am not willing to lay it all on the coach, because guys are failing the basics.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
I am guessing but out of interest how many players has Foster used to find the right combinations in his 2 years as head coach.
50 players ? And still has no clue.yeah, i get you are on a fucking red and black rage-a-thon at the moment, but i am not sure that's a stick you can beat him with.
He knows exactly who his preferred line up is
The problems are:
Moody and Taylor are past it. Behind Moody there isn't anyone bashing down the door. Behind Taylor Coles has been out for ages, and the next guy has his training wheels on
Whitelock has a lot of miles on teh clock and it shows, Retallick has been severly hamstrung by his time in Japan. The next guy is home having a baby, the rest are babies
In the loose, he has a hard on for Savea, because tests are won by YouTube highlight reels. He wanted Akira, but he blinked once he has a couple of low tests. Cane has been out. Everyone has been tried to varying levels of success, and not a single player saying "i am the guy"
Halfback we have one guy. TJP is rubbish. The rest are kids. Of the 5 starting halfbacks in NZ, one is ineligbile/injured
Neither 10 is gonna drive you around in a tight 1
He tried Havili as his 12 and it didn't work. His preferred partner is ALB, who for whatever reason hans't set the world on fire. Ioane is picked because we need something different there, and it's not working
He's basically run the same back 3 all year because it is workingFoster and the panel know who their best team is, the problem is the players in the top team are not performing. And i am not willing to lay it all on the coach, because guys are failing the basics.
Agree with what you wrote but the majority of your post could be used as an argument to show Foster doesn't know what his best team is. Depends on how you look at it I suppose.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
I am guessing but out of interest how many players has Foster used to find the right combinations in his 2 years as head coach.
50 players ? And still has no clue.yeah, i get you are on a fucking red and black rage-a-thon at the moment, but i am not sure that's a stick you can beat him with.
He knows exactly who his preferred line up is
The problems are:
Moody and Taylor are past it. Behind Moody there isn't anyone bashing down the door. Behind Taylor Coles has been out for ages, and the next guy has his training wheels on
Whitelock has a lot of miles on teh clock and it shows, Retallick has been severly hamstrung by his time in Japan. The next guy is home having a baby, the rest are babies
In the loose, he has a hard on for Savea, because tests are won by YouTube highlight reels. He wanted Akira, but he blinked once he has a couple of low tests. Cane has been out. Everyone has been tried to varying levels of success, and not a single player saying "i am the guy"
Halfback we have one guy. TJP is rubbish. The rest are kids. Of the 5 starting halfbacks in NZ, one is ineligbile/injured
Neither 10 is gonna drive you around in a tight 1
He tried Havili as his 12 and it didn't work. His preferred partner is ALB, who for whatever reason hans't set the world on fire. Ioane is picked because we need something different there, and it's not working
He's basically run the same back 3 all year because it is workingFoster and the panel know who their best team is, the problem is the players in the top team are not performing. And i am not willing to lay it all on the coach, because guys are failing the basics.
Your choice fuck 50 players can’t be all shit but 1 coach isn’t.
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
I am guessing but out of interest how many players has Foster used to find the right combinations in his 2 years as head coach.
50 players ? And still has no clue.yeah, i get you are on a fucking red and black rage-a-thon at the moment, but i am not sure that's a stick you can beat him with.
He knows exactly who his preferred line up is
The problems are:
Moody and Taylor are past it. Behind Moody there isn't anyone bashing down the door. Behind Taylor Coles has been out for ages, and the next guy has his training wheels on
Whitelock has a lot of miles on teh clock and it shows, Retallick has been severly hamstrung by his time in Japan. The next guy is home having a baby, the rest are babies
In the loose, he has a hard on for Savea, because tests are won by YouTube highlight reels. He wanted Akira, but he blinked once he has a couple of low tests. Cane has been out. Everyone has been tried to varying levels of success, and not a single player saying "i am the guy"
Halfback we have one guy. TJP is rubbish. The rest are kids. Of the 5 starting halfbacks in NZ, one is ineligbile/injured
Neither 10 is gonna drive you around in a tight 1
He tried Havili as his 12 and it didn't work. His preferred partner is ALB, who for whatever reason hans't set the world on fire. Ioane is picked because we need something different there, and it's not working
He's basically run the same back 3 all year because it is workingFoster and the panel know who their best team is, the problem is the players in the top team are not performing. And i am not willing to lay it all on the coach, because guys are failing the basics.
Agree with what you wrote but the majority of your post could be used as an argument to show Foster doesn't know what his best team is. Depends on how you look at it I suppose.
yeah i get that, but i can only imagine the howls of outrage if he left lots of those guys out. For the most part all season people hav been happy with the selecting right up to the final whistle. The same guys have played the big games.
We're paying for a lack of depth.
And he's not allowed to build depth or rabid Cantabs get upset because he uses too many players.
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
Your choice fuck 50 players can’t be all shit but 1 coach isn’t.
I don't think it's an either / or situation. Foster can be not up to it and the playing group can also be a problem - both can be true.
and that is my main point
I am not a Foster fan, the Chiefs days scarred me. I also think we had got stale in 2019 and just rolling on was a mistake
I can see the serious deficiencies in our play, like most can. I think we have significant issues in our IP.
BUT
I also think we don't have a god-given right to win every game now because, we do not have the players to do it. We have a good squad of good players, that has some serious holes, especially in the grunt areas. No coach is bringing back 2015 with this squad.
And i've been pretty consistent on why i think that is.
