All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Nothing about tactics or we need to get better as a coaching group, just it’s everyone else’s fault.
Stark contrast with Henry/Hansen/Smith, who openly copped being outcoached -- and swapped roles to try and lift/bring a fresh perspective to various areas.
Remember when our lineout was absolute pants? I do, it was just terrible. The 2000's were deeply frustrating as a supporter at times
Yes I remember the 2000’s it’s feels like that all over again doesn’t it.
Interestingly, the Irish game felt a bit like when SA beat the ABs in 2004 (40-26 - Marius Joubert hattrick). Henry, Hansen and Smith jettisoned some of the old guard and brought in new faces. It resulted in the Paris 2004 performance which was a real marker.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan maybe it is because our tackling is not dominant. We are going backwards. I mean a year or so ago Ofa was knocking people backwards. What happened. That’s why Akira needs to be in and not saying he is the solution. The engine room needs to improve.
The more I think about it, the more the passive tackling seems to be a tactic to soak up pressure and invite teams to overplay and go for the turnover. It also has the benefit of reducing the risk of yellow and red cards, which the ABs have had several of in recent years since SBW in 2017.
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mn5 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mn5 well I only went by what the AB and Hurricanes site said, I thought he'd be closest which is why I checked.
Players should get weighed in before games just like boxing and MMA. That way if they play poorly we can criticise the heftier players for too much KFC and the lighter players for not hitting the gym hard enough.
Weigh the fucking coaches while we are at it,
Getting the machines that weigh shipping containers might be a bit of a pain to transport to Rugby grounds
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@stodders To me a dominant tackle is one will you stop the opposition or they’re are driven backwards so you’re changing the gain line. It’s easier when you’re moving forward to get a turnover under that scenario. It would be good to have a bigger 2nd lock than 2 beanpoles like an Sam Lousi type or Brad Thorn for those who think I’m off my rocker.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Remember when our lineout was absolute pants? I do, it was just terrible. The 2000's were deeply frustrating as a supporter at times
We were also changing the coaching team ever couple of years then - at least until Ted came along, IIRC - and not many people were happy with his re-appointment after 2007.
But some smart people got together, did some analysis and fixed what was wrong. Needs to be done again.
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@broughie the alternative wold be a less dominant tackle but get there faster and catch them behind the gainline, try and force an error with the scrambling back
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@kiwiwomble true but I like going forward.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble true but I like going forward.
Ireland exposed the outside edge of NZs defence several times on Saturday to make good ground and get into the 22. As much as the defensive effort to repel them on the goal line was exceptional at times, questions need to be asked as to why Ireland were able to get there in the first place. Doris try aside (where Taylor missed his man), it was the AB backline defence that was caught out, not necessarily Ireland going up the guts.
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@kiwiwomble although passive defence is less likely to catch the opposition behind the gainline.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
We were also changing the coaching team ever couple of years then - at least until Ted came along, IIRC - and not many people were happy with his re-appointment after 2007.
I was firmly in the reappoint camp. I thought the body of work he put together was remarkable, and he had earned a second crack at it.
In his entire AB coaching career, he lost twice to NH sides. Both France; the infamous 07 and then a game in Carisbrook from memory when they were down here. It's an incredible record.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@broughie said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble true but I like going forward.
Ireland exposed the outside edge of NZs defence several times on Saturday to make good ground and get into the 22. As much as the defensive effort to repel them on the goal line was exceptional at times, questions need to be asked as to why Ireland were able to get there in the first place. Doris try aside (where Taylor missed his man), it was the AB backline defence that was caught out, not necessarily Ireland going up the guts.
Irish forward interpassing was exceptional at times. V ABesque I'd say. The changing of the point of attack was very good. Ireland and France probably have the 2 best set of ball playing front rows going right now, with the Boks not far behind. Ireland have also moved to a 1-3-2-2 attack formation under Mike Catt. It has taken 2 years, but it was highly effective on Saturday. This was the attacking shape the Japanese used in the world cup to shock the Irish. It had an impact on them that they have learned from and used to their advantage.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble although passive defence is less likely to catch the opposition behind the gainline.
i dont think its quite passive if you can get up fast enough, isn't that what we're actually being caught out with? i dont think our guys are getting smashed, they're going down in pretty standard tackles...just often behind the gainline, which is still going "forward"...just less penalties/cards
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@kiwiwomble but thats part of the problem, we arent getting up quick enough either...lots of issues
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@taniwharugby 100%, thats what i was meaning, something we could look at changing if we dont think we can get these dominant tackles right without giving away penalties, go for speed.
Or go for numbers, more counter rucking, outside defence would need work to cover the loss in defenders....but try something else
edit: saying it now it seems a similar problem with our attack, no patience or vision, every tackle needs to be a turn over and every play needs to risk everything to open them up
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Not giving up on DH, just think it's time to give QT a start. There's a chance he might provide a solution.
Yep. ALB's injury has expose the bareness of the cupboard. We didn't have a settled 12/13 in 2019, but it did have some experience.
Dave looks to have run out of gas.
At the end of Super rugby, he was he clear pick to play 12 - but, he's spent the year re-learning the position to play in two different teams, when he was probably expecting/hoping to play fullback for the Mako next Saturday.
They'll probably have to put him on the bench, but I think QT (Cotton Bud?) will have to step up this weekend.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Not giving up on DH, just think it's time to give QT a start. There's a chance he might provide a solution.
Yep. ALB's injury has expose the bareness of the cupboard. We didn't have a settled 12/13 in 2019, but it did have some experience.
Dave looks to have run out of gas.
At the end of Super rugby, he was he clear pick to play 12 - but, he's spent the year re-learning the position to play in two different teams, when he was probably expecting/hoping to play fullback for the Mako next Saturday.
They'll probably have to put him on the bench, but I think QT (Cotton Bud?) will have to step up this weekend.
the attitude to contact was alarming
There was one beautiful Irish exit in the 2nd half where i think i was Aki drove straight in to the midfield flat out, presented the ball and they cleared close to halfway
DH does not smack in to it. In fact he hesitates right at the point. That's not fucking helpful.
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@mariner4life a few of this team seem to avoid contact at all cost and lose momentum by doing a couple of meaningless steps and then get folded and jeopardise the ball, sometimes you just need to run straight and hard and look to recycle front foot ball
this actually also goes to a previous point, everyone is looking to break the line rather than building pressure for someone else to break of the next phase
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
DH does not smack in to it. In fact he hesitates right at the point. That's not fucking helpful.
Could a good coach improve that?
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